TSO Instances: not casual?

Discussion in 'Zones and Population' started by ARCHIVED-Meirril, Dec 2, 2008.

  1. ARCHIVED-Kendricke Guest

    Felishanna@Antonia Bayle wrote:
    I've cleared through Scion of Ice in a group of four with no raid gear on at least one of my characters so far. We had a brand new level 80 berserker in mastercrafted gear tank Obelisk of Ahk'Zul for a group of five. I've been in pickup groups across a few characters now where we cleared several of the early Shadow Odyssey dungeons - only one of my characters has any significant gear at all.
  2. ARCHIVED-Noaani Guest

    Kendricke wrote:
    Obviously you haven't read the whole thread!
    We've told them that we are able to clear these zones in the same/worse gear than what they have, but that doesn't matter, because they are casual.
    We've told them that we are able to clear these zones in the same/worse group makup than what they have, but that doesn't matter, because they are casual.
    The thing with these casual players is not about equipment, or about the number of players in the group, they simply seem to always zone in to a harder version of instances than what the rest of us have avalible.
    At least, thats what I have deducted from these threads.
  3. ARCHIVED-Elifin Guest

    Noaani wrote:
    You must be correct as I have deducted the same thing.

    I have also deducted that the casual player must run on auto-follow which gives them opportunity to complain constantly on forums.
    Sadly the new zones are hard to beat while on auto-follow which honestly is something SoE should look into and rectify.

    One point you failed to mention though is the most important aspect of being a 'new age casual' player is a negative attitude and spreading it through forums.
  4. ARCHIVED-Buttcliffe Guest

    bks6721 wrote:
    not sure if you've tried those recently with the new aa's and the damage changes.... they're easy. If people want mindless zones there's a few foam-walled bubble-wrapped instances in ROK for them
  5. ARCHIVED-zaneluke Guest

    Meirril wrote:
    I have to link this post here for everyone to see.
    http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=439527
    The op also made a post in the tradeskill section. Would like to see tradeskill instance tokens tradeable for void shards.
    I honestly see the connection here. And i do think we will see some of the easy mode people leave.
  6. ARCHIVED-livejazz Guest

    Noaani wrote:
    I've also discovered that being in a guild group somehow magikally conveys competence, integrity, friendliness, no lag, & other wondrous perks, while those who are FORCED TO PUG have no such benefits & must perforce succumb to the blind vagaries of fate.
  7. ARCHIVED-Caethre Guest

    zaneluke wrote:
    OOC.
    This one quoted sentence is something poignant.
    Time will tell if it turns out to be true or not. I suspect it may just turn out to be fine with the only complainants being insignificant (in a statistical sense), in which case nothing would come of it. However, if it did genuinely cause a noticeable number of the most casual-style players to feel excluded from content and therefore just quietly leave, something would need to be done. That said, I have read elsewhere that SOE are looking at possibly adding some more casual-style solo/small group content to TSO, and that may reduce or remove most of the concerns over that demographic anyway. I have no crystal ball and no access to account renewals and cancellations data, so I've no idea, but I am sure SOE will be watching such things carefully, as standard business practice.
    What is true, is that for every forum-jockey who hates casual players, despises "easy mode" players and endlessly whines about "dumbing down", for every poster who loves to post entirely for the purpose of attempting to ridicule what they see as a "lesser" playstyle than their own, and for every poster who simply cannot tolerate reading feedback that they just don't agree with and feels the need to attempt to ridicule the posters of said feedback (rather than either ignoring it or making adult posts on the actual subject itself), there are twenty or more others who never come to the forums. This is partly because they have no interest in wading through the opinions of such people!
    Like most players, I play to have fun. As I said earlier, I actually quite like TSO, and as such I am not in the group who are unhappy in this regard, but I know some others are. I have no idea how many, but I am not picking up that level of discontent amongst the constituency in which I move. However, if enough others far more "casual-style" than I have ever been, silently disappear, that would be very bad for the game.
    The forums are not just for the players who actually want the game to be super-hard - some of us actively play to relax and have fun, not to be stressed, and prefer things not-so-hard. This is simply about what people want from their gaming, and it is a vast and wide spectrum where not everyone is going to be pleased all the time, that's life. SOE try to cater to all, as I would too if I were running that business, that's just good business.
    So, certainly, this thread has merit, because if someone is unhappy and wants to give feedback, that IS what the official forums are actually for!
    But those you refer to as the "easy mode" people (which includes a whole range of different kinds of folks) are players, and SOE customers too, and they are entitled to a voice on the forums without having to endure attempted ridicule. I am not referring to the quoted poster there, I am referring to some of the totally unhelpful and unconstructive posts above that, where players of one point of view are just attempting to publically ridicule those of the opposing view.
  8. ARCHIVED-Gaige Guest

    Felishanna@Antonia Bayle wrote:
    That might not happen in threads if you didn't always have to apply such a negative stigma to raiders in all of your posts. Your posting style makes people post defensively, and it always has.
  9. ARCHIVED-TuinalOfTheNexus Guest

    Felishanna@Antonia Bayle wrote:
    Many non-raiders (or casual players) would find it insulting that you assume they're fundamentally inept compared to raiders.
    This is a great expansion for people who like a decent challenge but don't have time to assemble 23 other people and raid a week for every new item. I really hope it stays that way.
  10. ARCHIVED-livejazz Guest

    Felishanna@Antonia Bayle wrote:
  11. ARCHIVED-thajoka Guest

    Theres nothing hardcore or casual about being good at a video game. Some are and some arn't. Same way some people begin a sport and are phenominal while some people can try and try but, they just can't hack it. I mean you could try to teach me soccer all day long, I'll never be worth a damn at that sport. Unfortunatly the same could be said for video games. Unless they stand alone as some special thing that everybody can be good at, thats a bit candyland-ish though. Try to teach a room of people music and just say, all you have to do is hit these keys on the piano. Can you expect everyone to perform as good or will some just kinda, not get it in the end no matter what?
    Dissecting this discussion pretty heavily for a rather simple concept. It's the same way that I could do a zone on my wizard and present a parse. Give my login info to 5 other players and let them play my toon through the same group/zone. Do you really think its going to all come out the same, or will we see 6 players who have varied skill levels at playing a wizard?
  12. ARCHIVED-Meirril Guest

    zaneluke wrote:
    Yep, void shards. Or coin. Actually 2 different coin rewards. Oh, or maybe the crafting components from any of the TSO instances. Just that everybody locks on to void shards like they are the only possible reward.
    Why? Because that thread is about long term viability of tradeskill instances. Any of those rewards would extend their lifespan which right now is about 30 runs and then you'll never touch them again unless you really like doing a 3 hour crafting run for 15g and another 10g-1p of loot rewards. FYI: you could of done rush orders for more coin and a boat load of status.
    Oh, and a little update for the rest of you. After farming trash in stances to compete a set of tier 1 shard armor I've discovered that peice for peice it isn't as good as RoK's best instance gear. However, with the 5 peice set bonus it far outshines what RoK could do for an instance runner. Adding another 500 mittigation plus 2% damage reduction with similar avoidance numbers and a huge DPS increase...+mittigation has a huge impact. You would think it would be a 1% increase per point, but its a larger increase than that. With +7 mittigation its more like a 12% increase.
    Also my repair bill just went down by a 3rd due to the loss of several fabled items.
    With the tier 1 shard armor running instances isn't an issue. So, to answer all the commentors it wasn't a lack of skill. It wasn't a lack of coordination. It wasn't learning the strats. It was a pure gear issue.
  13. ARCHIVED-Noaani Guest

    Meirril wrote:
    In order to verify this, run instances for a few days wearing your old gear. I would assume you will find out that its not actually the gear that made all the difference as it is the fact that players have now adjusted to how TSO is, and are aware of the fact that when in an instance, they can't slack off and expect to not die.
    Reason I say this is simple, my tank has over 60 void shards and is still running instances in RoK legendary. Just finished tanking Mistmyr Manor, did 2 of the Guks yesterday as well. I could not do Mystmyr Manor the first week of TSO, yet I have not upgraded a single piece of gear on him. Since he is an alt, he also has less than 150 AAs so far.
  14. ARCHIVED-Yella Guest

    Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:
    At the end of the day what it boils down to is that you will only contemplate content that suits your playstyle. In your world people who have a different playstyle don't count, and providing for their needs is a waste of time. You can sugar coat and rationalize it all you want, but your agenda is pretty clear. You don't really have a clue where the other side is coming from or what their issues are. If you did you would have better suggestions other than what is effectively "be like me".
  15. ARCHIVED-Yella Guest

    Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:
    The difference between you and me is that I play both the hardcore and casual style, in different games. I understand what is important to different playstyles, and I equally understand why catering to all of them is healthy for the game. As soon as you start excluding people the game is eventually going to be the poorer for it. You might not see the price being paid immediately in an obvious way, but it will be paid.
  16. ARCHIVED-Yella Guest

    Noaani wrote:
    Of course casual players can clear instances, no one is saying they can't. What is at issue is the pain required to do so, for most or many of them. When the game ceases to be fun for those people, they will stop playing. When they run out of things to do they will stop playing. There isn't anything inbetween solo and full group play, and what full group play there is requires a level of commitment that a lot of those folk are not going to be willing to invest. The simple answer is to suggest they go elsewhere or become "good", but don't forget that they are paying for keeping EQ2 alive as well. It is not only you.
  17. ARCHIVED-Banditman Guest

    The problem that these so called "casual" players have is that up until now, they've not seen a subtle progression.
    Look, in the Kingdom of Sky era for instance, did you see any players complaining that they couldn't clear Halls of Fate at Level 60? Nope, not one! Why? It's very simple, because the "progression" was obvious (the mobs were red!) people realized that they shouldn't be attempting to do that instance.
    Even in RoK, you had the same thing. People didn't run to Maidens Chamber at L70 and cry "It's too hard!". Why? Because, once again, it was obvious that you were not supposed to be there. Mobs were red.
    Fast forward to TSO, and now the progression isn't "obvious". It's very subtle. The advanced TSO instances were not designed for players at L80, with 120 AA's. They were designed for players at L80, who have spent some time gearing up in other content, and who have 180 AA's. The problem is that people aren't looking for subtlety.
    As players gear up, gain AA's and continue attempting these instances, the complaints will go away.
  18. ARCHIVED-Noaani Guest

    Banditman wrote:
    Reading this particular part of your post got me thinking. Every piece of content release has had similar complaints.
    People complained with DoF that poets was too long, and that orange mobs were never going to be able to be killed by anyone without raid gear. Non raiders with a little determination worked at it, and proved them wrong.
    KoS had people complaining that HoF was too hard, and that the mobs hit far too hard for non raid geared tanks. Casual healers leart what the cure button was, and then groups had no issues with it.
    Fallen Dynasty had people complaining that Nizara was too hard, but people learnt that a group for a zone like this is not just any 6 players, and that a chanter or second healer will help, tanks also learnt to be careful while pulling, and to tell their healers when they are body pulling. Casual groups were clearing Nizara by EoF.
    EoF had groups complaining about the heat damage in CoV. They learnt to fight the names in the room they spawn in, and then they had no issues.
    RoK had people complaining about how hard solo mobs were, those people got 40 more achievements, and then started walking over those same solo mobs.
    TSO has people complain that there is too mush scripting, but they will learn the scripts, and then excute them without even needing to think about it. They will once again be proven wrong.
  19. ARCHIVED-Noaani Guest

    Yella wrote:
    *I* am not the one trying to get content that is being enjoyed by thousands of people changed to suit my playstyle and ability...
    ~Just sayin.
  20. ARCHIVED-zaneluke Guest

    Yella wrote:
    What kind of commitment are you talking about? You log on do a Lev 70-79 chat (insert level and class here) LFG for shard instances. Boom you get a group, run one of the easier instances. They can be done in an hour. Weekends? do some of the tougher ones that take 2-3 hours. Boom. Over a peroid of time you toon WILL progress with gear and you will be doing harder instances faster.

    But honestly i think you are looking for that 6th thing to do.
    #1 solo content, #2 group content, #3 raid content,#4 tradeskill content,#5 tradeskill group content. And now i think we need to make sure that other over looked group needs content too. that #6 inbetween solo and group play. Then a new expansion comes out and the duos start asking for duo content.......
    I think we have the heated threads in the forums now because for once, yes for once. I think SOE hit an expansion head on BLAM. This is good stuff, and the amount of heated threads in an otherwise desolate forum is proof.