Discussion in 'Tradeskill Discussion' started by ARCHIVED-MadTexan3, Apr 29, 2007.
[p]opps spam, apologies[/p]
[p]I'll keep this simple and I beg forgiveness if it has already been said (I've not been keeping up with the posts here recently and I'm not going to read 7 pages to catch up either) [/p][ol][li]Implement a tradeskill progression system, it should be as easy for a lvl 70 armorer to make a lvl 1 item as it is for a lvl 70 adventurer to kill a lvl 1 mob.[/li][li]Create challenge within the system, not from the outside. The system as it is now is boring to the nth degree.[/li][li]Make what we do worth a damn, itemization in this game is borked in so many ways it isn't funny.[/li][li]Integrate a real symbiotic relationship between adventurers and crafters (kinda goes with 3). Right now, crafters are almost parasitic...[/li][li]Remove first and second tier classes (ie, start as an armorer, weaponsmith, etc)[/li][li]back fill special recipes, in compete sets.[/li][li]Improve the graphics of our crafted gear (some of us like to look good), maybe even allow us to customize the look of the gear somehow (dyes at the crafting process)[/li][li]Allow us to customize the gear. This could be done similiar to imbues, just allowing us more variety of imbues[/li][li]Relook at the classes, determine if any should be combined and do it and be done with it all in one shot. Don't let it linger and hold people in limbo over it.[/li][li]Turn transmuting into transmuting and remove the crafting component, simply make it a harvesting skill[/li][li]Look at the potential of adding alternate ways of obtaining resources. I'd like to see a new set of secondary tradeskills (Farmer, Timberer, Tanner, Fisher, Miner, Rancher, etc) be created that mimic the harvesting skills and the low level zones (antonica, Commonlands, Greater Faydark, etc) revamped to account for these skills. This should remove the whole tier concept (ie, all metals come from the mines, just in varying degrees based upon the players mining skills. They would have to be refined and then could be used to craft). This purpose serves two purposes, 1) it removes what is a ridiculous tiering system where stuff you craft has become more and more ridiculous and 2) it creates a limit on what is brought into the system since everyone can not do everything. It may be necessary to create new zones for these, or perhaps would take a specialized version of a housing instance, I don't know. But I know I for one am sick of eating/drinking poison, dirt, metal, etc, but these could be placed at places like Windstalker Village, Thundermist Village, That little village outside of the Crossroads, etc, the location is unimportant, just the concept. (sorry, I know that is hard to read, but I'm limited by the rules of the board for segregation...)[/li][/ol][p]I think that is enough for now...[/p]
[p]well, the double post will work out well I think [/p][p]For the ranchers, they should have to buy their lifestock and then by 'working' it can get their materials. Farmers would have to buy the seeds to plant, Miners would have to 'buy' the mine (ie, the instance). All of these would be real costs to them, a real 'financial' risk. I'm sure something could be worked out to make it work and think of all of the things you wouldn't need to add later on, material wise [/p]
Since I've seen Domino urge us repeatedly to use this thread until she reaches 350/350 on mindreading, I'm throwing down some thoughts here that probably appear earlier in this thread (haven't read it all yet) and that certainly appear elsewhere in the TS forum:
1) Guestbook for inns with multiple rooms.
Instead of guessing which room a seller happens to occupy in Lion's Mane Inn (and knocking on door after door until you find the seller), it would be great if PCs could just go to the front desk and click on a guestbook registry. They could then scroll to the name of the PC they want to visit and be whisked off to that PC's room.
2) Inventory Logbook in the rooms/houses of sellers.
It would be convenient to be able to sort the entire contents of a seller's sales displays on one screen. I go to 2 Bayle Court looking to purchase silver clusters, and in the time I figure out which crate the clusters are in, someone beats me to the purchase.
3) Better icon differentiation for the most important crafting materials.
Loams are in extremely high demand at every tier, but you can't tell by looking at a loam whether it's a plain raw or a rare or even whether it's T1 or T7. (Roots are a little better than loams, but they could stand an icon overhaul as well.) Color coding is one solution that I've supported in the past, but I woulnd't be opposed to a tiny roman numeral (or some such thing) in the upper left hand corner to indicate what tier the item belongs to. Anything, really. Just give us a sign.
[p]Greetings,[/p][p]First let me thank you for taking the time to read this amidst the slew of pms and other messages you have likely gotten since coming on board. I am not a sage but have been crafting for a while and am currently working on a woodworker, though primarily play my troubador as a raiding adventure class. As you may know, one thing that bards would love to see is usable instruments, both to produce music(playable/music box) as well as influence game-mechanics via enhancements to groups songs and possibly even other novel effects. I understand that the gameplay aspects and the sound may be out of your immediate field of domain, but they all are sourced in tradeskills.[/p][p]As a troubador, I am ecstatic seeing that instruments will once again be available from NPC merchants in the cities, refering to GU35 test notes; I am glad to see them but, I would hope that the ones that are available and those that will be, would eventually be craftable by woodworkers as playable/music box house furniture and as ranged-slot items. The latter ranged slot equipment item could theoretically have both an 'ammo container' and a 'consumable' - blank music pages with an aesthetically pleasing name that allows room for the imagination of the bard to improvise and implies that it is their creativiity that fills the pages with music rather than already composed(which the container itself could imply). Of course this is a somewhat broad reaching concept that would require as you said more time to implement and significant collaboration between developers in various fields, but the introducation of these merchant instruments illuminates that a wide range of possibilities and ideas are being discussed and entertained, and as a bard, as a player, and as a dreamer i would be remiss not to mention this idea.[/p][p]Thankyou again for your time and enthusiasm and I wish you and the entire dev team the best. And as I hope just one of many first notes to relay, you all are doing an awesome job making a game that many truly enjoy playing, and I truly appreciate the interaction and responses to feedback. I think this is only one of a few posts i make - most of my interaction, and the iteraction i will return to will be through in-game feedback.[/p][p] ~Liren Natulien <Eidolon-Antonia Bayle>[/p][p]DominoDev wrote: [/p]
id like to see all advanced crafting books purchasable from a merchant like you can buy for tier 1 6 and 7 now shouldn't be too hard to set up tier 2-5 to be purchased from a merchant in game and save me a lot of time killing lvl apropriate mobs to save me alot of money buying llow lvl advanced books from broker for 60+ gold a pop for some of them
Welcome Domino! Really looking forward to your time here as I'm a diehard crafter that is missing my fun. Back in T6 when my goods were in demand and I had customers and a business it was a blast and I'd like to see it get back to that. And it wasn't that it was fun because I made a lot of money (I made a lot more harvesting and questing than I ever charged for crafting) but I interacted with a lot more people than I did before or since. Here's some of my crafting feature suggestions (and a cup to tea to drink during the long read :-D).
Rare events - The rare events like Flawless Xxxxx and Favor of Innovation are still ultra rare unlike harvest rares which have become much easier to get. Not asking for rare events to drop like crazy but a little more often in line with the rarity of harvesting a rare would be nice (see crafting equipment for ideas on how to make this happen). Also, the Xxxxxx Insight event buff is kind of pointless. What would get me a lot more excited is if when the Insight buff was in place I was earning double experience.
Crafting quests - One of the problems with crafting quests is that there's a lot of crafters that are low adventure level. But there's a lot of places that crafters can be directed to without risking aggro such as the dock areas of nearly all zones and of course all of the city zones. One of the additions I liked that was added recently was the timed writs. This added a dimension that made me sit up during the crafting instead of watching TV while I spam buffs. Create some crafting questlines that run us crafters around all the city zones and require us to prove our crafting skills under these conditions. Some crafting skills to "test" us on other than timed combines could be haggling with a merchant to get the best price for supplies, selling our goods to an NPC for the highest price, identifying goods that are in demand, harvesting unique items in towns and on the docks and recognizing items (raws/rares) that are undervauled and that could be "enhanced" and resold for a profit.
Crafting equipment - The charm slot additions that add to the percent chance for success are nice but what I'd really like is a whole set of crafting class gear. I want my provisioner to have an apron, a chef's hat, a spatula in one hand and a huge knife in the other. Besides the fun factor this would add, these items could provide buffs to +duration, +progress, +power regen, +heat protection, +chance for rare event and -power pool (only real crafters would understand why you would want to lower your power pool ). You could also have certain items that are required for certain recipies. So for the Halasian Icebrew recipie I could need the quested Platinum Mixer to even attempt the recipie. These items could be gained from quests and crafted. For the crafted items, this would give more sellable items for crafters to make while not impacting the balance of adventure .vs. crafted gear at all. The addition of this gear would make it possible for crafting to get a lot "harder" to complete successfully without the extra gear.
Offline LFW - I have one adventure toon (a guardian) and then I have a tinkerer, transmuter, provisioner, woodworker, carpenter, alchemist, armorer, jeweler and weaponsmith. When I'm out tooling around on my guard chatting, harvesting or just doing junk quests it would be great if I could have my crafters show up on the LFW listings since I could easily log over to them in a heartbeat. It's not really Offline, it more of a "I'm online but on another toon LFW".
No-Trade legendary/fabled gear raws and recipies - The relic drops that were introduced in KoS and the DFC revamp are a great idea. Please add more of that as well as the rare recipie drops for crafters. This would provide a great way to get the crafters and adventurers to interact more (see the order system below). Just make sure you do it for fabled as well as legendary gear to support both the raid and group playstyles.
Order system - Through the broker, allow people to put items and coin into an order request that would get posted and later fulfilled by crafters. Here's the way I see it working:
Joe Adventurer has just harvested a rare metal and wants a helmut made. Joe goes to the broker to create an order request, #3342. Joe selects the item he wants to have made from a searchable listing. This listing should have an optional crafting class and level filter. Once the item is selected, it would display the fuel costs, any raws that could be required and also provide a tip option for how much Joe is willing to pay for the crafting. Joe puts in his rare metal cluster, and enough coin to cover the fuel and a 10g tip.
Later that day, Jill the Armorer decides she feels like some crafting and goes to the broker. Jill selects the order requests tab and filters it for armorer and the level ranges she's interested in. She finds several requests, some don't provide the rare clusters, some don't provide much of a tip but she find's Joe's request, #3342, for a rare helmut and selects reserve to say that she's going to fulfill this order request. She now has 15 minutes to craft the item or it will go back up for listing. She goes down to the forge, selects the special recipie she has for Order Request #3342 and does the combine (using a screen very similar to the comission dialog). Upon completion the coin is given to Jill and the helmut is mailed to Joe or placed back in his order request for him to pick up.
Here's some more details:
Only one order request can be reserved at a time.
There could be a penalty coin amount attached to an order request to protect the contents of the order. So Joe could have put a 75g penalty on the order request and if Jill did not get pristine on the combine, 75g would have been withdrawn from her coin and mailed to Joe.
Imbues are tricky since they require two combines. Not sure how to handle this one using this system that wouldn't require putting an imbue request up after the initial combine was completed.
This system works just like the comission system in that no-trade, lore or even attuned items can be placed in the order request for crafting.
This system could even be used to craft no-trade items for your alts. I have a 350 tinkerer that I can craft gnomish jump boots for everyone except my own alts. Using this system I could put up an order request and fulfil it with one of my own crafters.
A quantity field could be used on the order request to make it easier to request stacks of items such as food/drink/potions/poisons/ammo/totems. Not sure how that should effect the reserved timer, perhaps the timer resets as long as items are being crafted towards the requested quantity and if only a partial amount of the quantity is crafted then the partial amount of the tip would be provided.
Tinkering additions - I love tinkering. It's great fun. Here's some additions that I'd like to see.
Add a way to recharge the safety recaller or add a out of combat evac tinkering item. As a guard I don't really expect to have an in-combat evac but an out of combat evac is a great time saver at times. If it's an out of combat evac please make it work 100% of the time but a longer recast (like 1 hour) is fine.
Add a gnomish tracking scanner. This would work just like a scout's tracking (and similar to the existing divining rod) except it would be used to find npcs and mobs. 15 minute recast sounds appropriate.
Add a gnomish lock pick. For those times that you get an Exquisite Chest and no scouts in sight. Not nearly as reliable as a scout of course and 10 minute recast.
Thanks for listening and if you are looking for another dev to help you with all this I'm available 8)
Five Finger Discount - The Everfrost Crafting Guild
[p]Since sadly we can't go back to the way it was before the revamp, I at least as a Provisioner who made it all the way to 62 before that revamp would like to humbly ask for my Refreshing Mental Core Breeches back or at least a reasonable equivalent. Forget the raiding drink, we don't all raid. In fact if I remember its a small percentage of people who play the game who raid. I would like a drink that's a little harder to make(like Refreshing Mental Core Breech was when you had to do all the interim steps) and has that nice +??? power stat to it. Now I don't even craft with my Provisioner at all except to make food/drink for my chars. [/p][p] [/p][p] [/p]
A more thought out variation of my suggestion, with more details to cover some of the angles. Step One Take away all the specific recipes for skill/spell upgrades from all three subclasses. No more "Kick (app IV)" style spells. Instead each subclass gets a single "template" recipe per level. This is the template for apprentice skills. The subclass also gets with the advanced recipe book the adept 3 version of this template blank. Any adventurer of the particular class the crafter represents can then use this template blank. Sage is able to make a blank for all priests and one for all mages. Alchemist makes one for fighters and jeweler makes one for scouts. The adventurer then takes this generic blank to a NPC trainer who then converts the blank to a specific spell to scribe. This resulting spell is no-trade. Ideally a player of the specific class should be also able to also perform this conversion of the blank in a commission trade window. This conversion of the generic template to specific skill/spell helps the role play aspect of the game because it more appropriately assigns the actual training of the skill to a trainer in the class instead of solely from a scholar. This also encourages more players to visit their hometowns, and if training by another player is allowed, encourages more of a community feel within a given subclass. Step Two Increase the recipes of the (now virtually empty) sage recipe books by giving them the capacity to create books for buffs (such as the Leggiscon) similar to symbols, books or scrolls with an activateable effect for skill or stat boosting (such as motivational books helping someone), and lore books such as the ones that the sage in the mage areas sell now, only peaceable in your house with a mild to major (depending on class of recipe) status reduction. This would give more books for people to place in their house as well as more usable items for the sage to sell. [size="12pt"][face=""Times New Roman""] (Yay for the forums eating my formatting) [/face][/size]
[p]I'll take that bet!![/p][p]There is something you badly failed to realize here. App 4's wont sell, period. Adept 1's will drop too fast and too easy as they always have, and will sell on the broker for LESS than the COST to make an app 4. App 4's will be nothing but a money sink for leveling, as they were from 1-70.[/p][p]Adept 3's will require rares. These rares wont exist until players find them. During the time players search for these, masters will drop lowering the potential market for Adept 3's. Most players will hold off on purchasing adept 3's until they are near cap, in hopes of obtaining masters and only need adept 3's for those spells they were unable to obtain masters for. Then, once the adept 3 market does open, it will be short lived while the players get their adept 3's. After which, the market closes again, and the money dries up. This is why we need consumables, to hold us over between level cap increases (which are the only big money tickets we get).[/p][p]I don't have an armorer, and I don't know what all everyone makes, but what I DO know is that most others get consumables, and make a killing off them. Food, drink, potions, totems, poisons, ammo, among other things, are all consumables, and are a constant flow of money aside from the other "one time sell" things they make.[/p][p]Sure, I can make 10-20 plat (or more if I'm really lucky) in a months time with the cap increase, but 6 months later I will be flat broke again with no income. [/p]
[p]First, I want to say Welcome Aboard Domino!!! Good luck in your new job, and I hope in the months to come, you still maintain the level of excitement about it that you have today [/p][p]Now on to my wish list ....[/p][p]Being an altaholic (raises hand and says "Hi my name is Kalyai, and I...I...*wipes a tear* I am an altaholic.) I have the uncanny habit of not remembering what alts do what tradeskill...so much to my dismay, I have found that I now have 2 or 3 provisioners, 2 tailors, and a few other duplicates. I love my toons...each for their very own special abilities. The thought of deleting even one of them to give them a different tradeskill is enough to make me want to cry. What I would LOVE to do is change their tradeskill. My level 70 bruiser would love it very much if he didn't have to try to make food with the leftovers of my lvl 45 Inquisitor who is a tier ahead of him in provisioning.[/p][p]So PLEASE, can you see what you can do about letting us change our tradeskill?? [/p][p]Recipes - I love my carpenter. She is definitely one of my favorite tradeskillers. But leveling her was tedious, thankfully she is level 70 finally. I swore after level 40 that if I ever had to make another bear skin rug I was going to put a sword through the idiot that requested one. The other levels were not much better. I would dance for joy if I scribed a book and saw more than 1 or 2 new recipes![/p][p]My jeweler breezed through her levels...so many recipes to choose from... I am still to this day finding recipes that I never even crafted at the lower levels. Where my carpenter had 1 or 2.. my jeweler had 10 or more. Oh if only my jeweler could have shared the wealth and given my carpenter a few new toys to make....[/p][p]Can you find a way to even out the recipes per level that the tradeskills are given. Or perhaps bonus xp for those tradeskills that get almost no recipes...[/p][p]Those are my biggest wishes. I won't burden you with the rest....they are really not all that important imo. I love tradeskilling. I find it fun and entertaining and very relaxing.[/p]
[p]Wishlist:[/p][p]1. Rare harvests from bush and fish nodes (prefereably a random rare)[/p][p]2. Just an idea mind you, but since Sages have so many recipes but no consumables. Why not shift all the priest spells over to weaponsmiths or something, and give Sages and give sages reagents. Small consumables that work like poisons but for mages. Of course mages would have to be rebalanced if you do something like that but it would be a fun project.[/p]
1. Make rare trade skill events more frequent when you counter a trade skill reaction. A small increase for each counter and reset when it procs or if you fail to counter a reaction. 2. Add the ability to make for example a falchion or plate helm with whatever set of stats you want. This however might be slightly more difficult to implement unless you want to add one piece of armour for every possible combination for every possible tear, which is not a good solution in my humble opinion. A better solution would probably require some change in the crafting process and a different way of handling items in your database, but a similar solution already exists with adornments. So hopefully it's at least doable within a Game Update iteration. By stats I mean the ability to specify exactly how many points are spent on each stat and on each resist, so if someone wants a chain hemp with only strength and heat resist that should be possible, although the max amount would be the current total of stats/resists. Also some thought needs to be spent on this as the number of specific recipes would be lowered and so would the amount of discovery exp for the classes affected by this. 3. Make shiny stuff less common. And instead of having (t2 example) glowing flower, glowing stone, glowing tooth and glowing fish scale, you could just call them all "glowing substance" and make them all stack with each other. 4. Go over the rares again and make sure there's only one for each type and tier. For example now I think there are three different types of tier 5 rare pelts that don't stack with each other, 2 of which have the same graphics. I think this is a remnant from when mobs, nodes and quests had one type each and a few were missed when they were changed to the current system. 5. Lower the number of fuels required in the upper tiers but raise the price of each fuel so the end cost is the same. There is really no point for a combine to require 16 fuels when in the same tier the lowest amount of fuels any combine uses is 8, might as well multiply the price of the fuels by 8 times and make the same recipes require 2 and 1 fuel component. That's all I can think of from the top of my head, but I'm sure I can bring more suggestions to the table. Most of these should be fairly easy to implement with number 2 as the only possible exception (Depending on the underlaying design.).
I know well that app 4 spells really don't sell, but neither does common crafted armor. I haven't sold handcrafted armor in ages; it was probably over a year ago when I sold my last one. I only sell mastercrafted armor and once in a great while do work upon request. There are only 7 armor slots to fill yet there are over a dozen spells to upgrade. Anyways, I'm not trying to argue that all the tradeskill classes are fine and dandy, but sage really isn't that bad off in the whole scheme of things.
I do agree that it would be nice for each class to have at least one consumable item to produce. As far as I know only 3 classes currently have consumable items so they'd have to add quite a few new items to the game. I just wanted to point off that sages are hardly as bad off as you make it appear in your post.
[p]For a Sage consumable, what about something that would go in the ammo slot of a Priest/Mage that would have Symetryxx on it? Give it a % chance to fire as Poisons have (Not the same chance necessarily, it'd need testing to balance so I wouldn't even guess since I hate playing squishy robes). When it fires, your next spell will increase by xx amount and a charge is used.[/p][p]That would add a consumable to Sages and something for non-melee types to equip in a currently useless slot.[/p][p] [/p][p] [/p]
[p]I do not have a sage, however I do have jeweler and know that earning a level on him is not as satisfying as leveling my craftsmen and outfitters. Discovery bonuses need to be equalized across the classes. Either remove the bonus, or determine how much of a tier one should earn on discovery bonuses and divide that between the recipes. If discovery should provide 20% of a tier (2 levels) then divide 200% (2 levels of XP) by the number of recipes: if a class has 200 recipes in a tier the bonus would be 1%; if a class has 40 recipes in a tier the bonus would be 5%. While leveling needs to be standardized that does not mean that it should be accelerated, when various adventurer classes were found overpowered they were reduced to be in line with the others.[/p][p]Leveling a crafter could stand to be made more interesting. Previously I participated in a discussion thread about allowing crafters to earn their advanced recipes by seeking out and studying (completing timed writs) under trainers. To save space and time I will not repeat the details posted in that thread. Allowing crafters to earn their advanced recipes by crafting provides additional reason to grind combines and another outlet for the items created during leveling. It also provides the opportunity to create end-game crafting content for crafters that currently is lacking.[/p][p]Crafting is not a secondary skill of adventurers, it is a parallel independent progression that should require the same level of commitment as adventuring classes. Crafters need a full spectrum of content including quests, progression, equipment, and challenges to overcome beyond simply leveling.[/p]
[p]Weldome aboard!!:thumbup: [/p][p]I agree - I really hate levelling my carpenter -- too few recipes and it gets really tedious. I would like to see some balance so that classes with few new recipes a level either get more XP for their first pristine or more XP.[/p][p]I would also like to see Armorer & Weaponsmith combines and Carpenter and Woodworker. Right now I have no desire to level either my weaponsmith or my woodworker as nothing they make is wanted by other players. The woodmaker does make arrows -- but I am not sure the pain of levelling the class is worth it just for Arrows.[/p][p]Please do something to fix these broken classes with too few recipes and products that are unwarnted.[/p][p]Also please see that we can get more than fuel cost when we have to sell stuff back to the NPC vendors -- a few extra wouldn't kill the game economy [/p]
TS Wishlist: Make Provisioning and furniture making into secondary tradeskills And: Could there be some kind of tinkered house pets that look like regular creatures in the game? That'd be cool, all you would have to do is say they are mechanical and use the regular monster models and use the house pet script. And: More artifact looking things.
Just a note on this - they're actually still used for some recipes. Geomancy and Weaving are used for the recipes in The Nest and Geomancy is also used for some of the HQ crafting. Magical Affinity is used for one of the Loping Plains quests. Timbercraft is the only one not currently in use. Which is not to say they can't be removed, but some other stuff would have to be changed first so it doesn't break, which means this is a bit less simple than it sounds and won't be high priority anyway.
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