Troub Jesters Cap redundant (ToV)

Discussion in 'Scouts' started by scousetroub, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. scousetroub Active Member

    With the amount of reuse in game now ToV will make cap redundant.

    Is there any plans to change this spell ?

    Edit:~ mb a % chance to reset timers of recipient ? :p
  2. Errrorr An Actual EQ2 Player

    Could easily make it back into a mage buff like it was originally intended to be. Maybe make it a TW style buff, cast on 1 person, 5s duration, and 50% Spell Mutli, or Spells hit for Max damage (Combat Mastery style). Something that'd make it a skill to time the buff correctly, rather than just pressing alternate macros for it whenever its active again.
    I think they said a while back though they aren't looking at buffs just yet, as there would be a lot work to do on all of them, and the sheer importance of them all.
    Gravitas/Battle Cry are somewhat dated, Illusionary Arm, AoI etc.
  3. Ucala Well-Known Member

    I'd still keep it because it's a free 10 CB, and damage proc.
    and if you Know you are always gonna have jcap on, than it's just less reforging you have to do.
  4. Hammdaddy Active Member

    The buff was never "only mage intended", if it's changed make it desirable for both scouts/mages.
    Mermut likes this.
  5. Remeo New Member

    Sorry to get a bit off topic, but many of the AA choices for most classes, will also suffer greatly. Since there are loads of them that reduce the reuse of XYZ ability.
  6. Ucala Well-Known Member

    again, not really, it just gives you better/less items you have to reforge into reuse
  7. scousetroub Active Member

    I know what your saying; Look at it this way 10 cb to cb pool ~ 500 come expac 10 cb seems to lose it's desirability

    + Most scouts going to be near the high 80's RU mark now some even more if you want to push it

    Proc is fluff pads a bit on parses but look at the incoming on real fights, it's not that high on named even with 4 - 6 person rotation

    Leaves it a near redundant spell what is unique to a Troub imo


    One the ideas I got for it would be to have a 5 % chance to reset last CA/Spell the recipient cast on next spell sort of thing for a duration of cap - that would make it a buff for all classes imo
  8. JonnyJJJ New Member

    How about if they added an effect that extends the reuse cap on the target by the buffs amount for the duration of the buff (so effectively they'd have 140% reuse while jester's cap is active) - that would make it attractive to all again.
  9. Shazbot Active Member

    This is a bad thing?

    It'd be nice to do away with all the temporary buffs that have to be cast repetitively over a long night of raiding. There's nothing wrong with a save type buff on a long cool down that requires some actual thought as to when it needs to be cast. The problem is with the "I'm going to be casting this thing every 40 seconds all night long" buffs that require no thought at all just a macro to cycle them through group or raid members.
  10. Estal Well-Known Member

    All spells / ca's need to be carefully examined / revamped by SoE ever since they did the last big itemization revamp.
  11. Errrorr An Actual EQ2 Player

    Like Wards? Like 95% of Combat Arts? Like 90% of Mage dps spells? By removing 1 button, you just have to press your other ones more. It makes no difference.
  12. Shazbot Active Member

    The one button is not an active button. It's a buff. Buffs should not be in a rotation. They should be a feature of the class that causes the player to make a decision on where to cast them and then allows him or her to forget them until a cleanse effect or something similar occurs.

    I think wards should be reduced overall. I think they should be stronger and on long cool downs and they should make the player casting them make an active decision instead of rotating a ward ever time it is available.

    The number of spells that are in rotation is just silly. A raider should have maybe 4 or 5 abilities/spells in the rotation and a few that they use situationally. The abilities/spells can change from fight to fight depending on what is being fought and whether or not the raiders role changed as a result but it's ridiculous to have to macro the number of abilities/spells that players have to macro now. That removes a lot of the fun element and it reduces the chances of a player seeing a unique way to profit in a given situation. The bards freaking cast like 15 abilities/spells in their rotation. That's an absurd number of things to be required every time they go down in a set rotation.
  13. Mermut Well-Known Member

    No thanks.. I like the system we've got now. 4-5 button spam is booooring.
  14. Shazbot Active Member

    14-15 button spam when there is no real choice in what you spam is worse than 4-5. Choice makes things better but there's no choice at this point.
  15. Mermut Well-Known Member

    Except rotating your buffs depending on how the fight is going and who can make most use of (or has most need of) the buff at the time isn't just spam.. but it's one of the things you mentioned getting rid of..
  16. Shazbot Active Member

    Jester's Cap gets rotated on a specific rotation of people, fewer now that the debuff that prevents you from recasting it on somebody quickly has been removed. It's a horribly boring spell that drives a Troub's rotation in a way that makes playing the class less fun. Upbeat Tempo gets cast and forgotten because it is a till-cancelled buff. Jester's Cap gets cast every 40 seconds or so with no thought at all as to who it will go on, the rotation is fixed beforehand and deviating from it makes the spell less than optimal.

    It's a perfect example of an unfun spell that is not absolutely necessary the way heals, DPS and threat enhancers are and yet must be cast repetitively by troubadors or they're not doing the job.

    Jester's Cap should be a permanent buff with a lesser effect and limited by concentration. Then at least if a troubador was asked to put it on 5 people they'd be done with the thing until deaths required that it be recast. Of course it's possible that troubadors would be asked to put it on fewer people to maintain concentration for other buffs.
  17. Mermut Well-Known Member

    I know hat JCap is, I've got a trouby. I also know there are times when you might want to change it's rotation.... say a fight where tanks need to snap alot so you want to JCap them so their snaps come back faster. Yes, most commonly troubs just rotate it on the same toons all the time w/o thought to the fight, but it CAN be something that is thought about. But it is up to the player to do the thinking.. as it is with all abilities.
  18. Shazbot Active Member

    And you raided with a guild that let you choose where to put JC?

    I'm going to boggle on that one. I have always been told who it goes on and who is in the rotation. Again, a repetitive buff that must be maintained in a fast rotation is boring and unfun. If you believe that having buffs distributed in a fast rotation is a fun way to play then more power to you. You're probably one of the few who has the patience to play a Troubador long-term. For most guilds Trouby is one of the slots they're always looking to fill. Because it is an unfun role to play in a raid.
  19. Brienae Active Member


    I've been allowed to decide where J-cap goes but within reason. Currently I j-cap the two highest parsing Assassins. I also have macros in case tanks need it. As Mermut said it takes some thought.
    Having said that... I've often compared j-cap to a mini game. Previously if you failed then the designee(s) got mad at you. Now it does not seem to matter much. I think the direction we are headed in is "it will be nice to have a bard, but we don't need it." I just hope they don't go too far and suddenly Bards are worthless in raids and groups.
    Mermut likes this.
  20. Shazbot Active Member

    I spent a fair amount of time trying to convince people that JC should go on the highest parsing DPS, which in my case were a pair of Assassins. The advantages of that were that I was always targeting the mob through them as the macro shifted around and I lost very little DPS.

    The problem is that the casters considered JC to be theirs and from where they stood it messed with my DPS considerably to keep them in range and with LOS to cast the spell.

    It's just a bad spell. It's required and it creates real issues in best play of the class in other ways. If it was on a much longer CD or a permanent buff no issue but it's like the rictus twitch of a troubador.

    Dirges wind up having to break rotations all the time to rez people but that's an active part of the raid process, not a behind the scenes number crunch.

    There's a reason guilds are always looking for Trouby's and chanters. Both classes require a significant level of effacement and outright support that does not show up on the meters. Both of them wind up well down the DPS charts most of the time and have to be content with other people doing their job better as a result. When those people don't actually do better, well that's a whole different can of worms.