Transmuting discussion thread

Forgive me if this, specifically, has been addressed, but at the start of the thread in Domino's summary it is stated that all existing adornment recipes will be removed from the system. I take this to mean that Woodworkers will no longer have any "enigma of the woodworker" recipes left; they will be removed from a woodworkers book.
Does this mean, though, that all existing adornments will get an overhaul; i.e. if it is decided that there is no longer going to be a +100 health for shoulders but that adornment will now be +150, for instance...will the existing adornments in game change and be "unadorned" ?

Dahctor wrote:

Not as far as I've read , no mention of any changes to adornments...just the recipes being sold to and used by transmuters only.

Wullail@Splitpaw wrote:

Like Domino stated in the OP, she isn't ready to dicuss that yet. So, nobody here knows.

Personally I don't care anymore what they do with transmuting, once again recipes and abilities are being stripped from my characters, recipes and abilities I earned playing by the rules they set.

Lasai wrote:

Would you feel better if you were refunded the 8g an enigma of the <class> you scribed could of been vendored for? That's all you did to "earn" that recipe.

Meirril wrote:

Terron@Splitpaw wrote:

We already covered that. The simple reality is regardless of your definition of "earned" a system will be changed after 3 years stripping players of abiliies thay've had all that time.People are entitled not to like it no matter how good an idea it is because bottom line is they are in fact losing something they did indeed "earn" by whatever virtue they acquired the ability.

Terron@Splitpaw wrote:

From my personal experience, which may differ from anyone elses, leveling a transmuter was much more work and time consuming than leveling any of my tradeskillers to 80. Currently in the game now all the desired adornments are NOT a transmuter recipe. Those recipes are asigned to different tradeskill classes. I just think its appropriate that they be assigned to the transmuters.

Deson wrote:

I think the capability to level both transmuting and tinkering more than compensates for this imho.

Pauly@Befallen wrote:

This is true. For the recipes will be taken away, but players can now be both a Transmuter and Tinker.
Just trade these transmuting recipes with recipes for appearance items like coloring the items they make (armorerers/tailors their armor; weaponsmiths their weapons; even carpenters their furniture), and it'll make up for the change. Recoloring is a popular request, and that trade will make the transition smooth. Besides more plat can be made via it.

Pauly@Befallen wrote:

I don't disagree. I'm just making the point as I have multiple times here that people have the right to be upset even if things are getting better because they are in fact losing something.

Deson wrote:

Its a tail wagging the dog argument. If the only thing you cared about in tailoring was the glove adornments and you leveled an 80 tailor just to make those adornments then you can level an adorner under the new system just to make those adornment too.
If you leveled an 80 tailor and relized that most of what you made in tier 8 was adornments, then you were leveling a tailor and found a nitch market that won't exist after the changes. Lots of nitch markets have existed, and been eliminated by various changes in the game. Bags, charm slot, t5 leather armor, and currently t8 adornments have all been profitable nitch markets for tailors. One way or another the game has changed to elimiate all of them. Other nitch markets will appear, you'll just have to look for them. If you arn't willing to change, then you deserve to get left behind.

Kigneer wrote:

What brings you to belive we'll be able to recolor things? As far as I know, changing the colors of an object in game isn't really possible and you'd need to instead create every possible color change as a seperate database entry. Its part of the reason dev announced long long ago that this wasn't going to happen, ever.

Meirril wrote:

And again, your response ignores the entirely human aspect of being frustrated about losing something by no action of your own. You can make whatever "sound" argument you want and it still doesn't get around the fact that someone is going to lose. It's not enough to keep from moving forward with what's by and large a better plan and close to what should have been done in the first place but it should be enough to accept that they did "earn" it under the old system and it's going to be a loss. Of course people that don't adapt will be left behind, it doesn't make them irrelevant or their points any less vaild. I don't think a good plan should be fouled to accomodate them but they deserve better than being told "adapt or die".

Meirril wrote:

I like to know how you got that idea.

I just took up transmuting last week, and am already at the equivalent of about level 60.
I've got 4 level 80 crafters, so can attest that leveling speed is very fast. It's more expensive to do it fast, since the skill-up rate is higher if the level of the item made is high. But I can gain skill regardless if the item made is trivial, unlike regular crafting. I've bought most of my components so far, and it's cost me about 43p. I could have spent less if I was willing to level slower, and made more new players interested in the game.
Things I don't like about the current system:
1. The fact that you can't gain skill ups from transmuting (breaking the item down) after 100 skill. I feel like I've fallen for a drug dealer's tactics of giving you free drugs until you're hooked. Either take that away, or continue it, i.e. be consistent.
2. The items I can make from transmuting have little market value until high levels, which is mostly the result of players not knowing the usefulness of adornments, which affects all crafters of adornments. I never made them with my other crafters either, since there was no market for them, until level high levels The solution to this is both in-game player education and improving the effects of adornments. Currently, the effects of adornments are marginal, and only level 80's are in the market for marginal improvements.
3. At times, I can transmute things but don't have the skill to scribe the books in order to be able to make something out of them. Suggested solution - allow me to scribe the books.
Things I like about the current system:
1. It's easy to level compared to other crafts.
2. It's helping me clean up my inventory (although my inventory actualy got worse at first, because of buying lots of low level items).
3. I'm helping newbies gain cash, while at the same time, removing junk out of the system.
Number 2 and 3 are good for the game, which justifies number 1. However, I would prefer that a market be created for transmuted items below level 80. Which requires more in-game education about the usefulness of adornments, as well as making them actually useful.
But that will be really hard, since the game is so easy without adornments. :/
So good luch with that!

Tommara wrote:

People don't usually put adorns on their gear until after level 70, simply because many are fast leveling with trash gear and it's pointless putting a 50p adorn on a Treasured/MC item. They'll out grow it long before they can really take advantage of the adorn(s), too.
I still use a level 30 adorn on my forearm bracers, simply because anything higher would be a waste.

Kigneer wrote:

That whole issue should be addressed by the changes actually. Giving all recipes to transmuters means they can make more than weapon adornments as they level. With the adornments spread over more slots/recipes/choices you'll see a greater variety of cheap, low level non-weapon adornments on the broker. They should go up in price a little bit even for treasured, but they should also be vaugely more helpful.
The second thing addressed is adornment cost. Adornments are going to be changed to use slightly less material. The less material used per combine, that should translate into cheaper adornments.
You arn't going to see legendary or fabled adornments used on easily replaced items, but you might see more treasured adornments being thrown around in the upper tiers. Also beginning characters can already pick up dirt cheap weapon adornments now, after the change you'll start seeing other useful treasured adornments start showing up in low tiers at cheap prices.
One problem though. If you can continue to gain skill making nothing but low level adornments, you'll have a flood of tier 1, 2 and 3 items and then it will start drying up. Simply put, if you can do it cheap you should. Even with reduced material amounts lower tier items are still going to be the cheapest. If the skill up rate remains 1 in 5 for grey combines, and 1 in 2 for white combines it makes monetary sense for me to use tier 1 or 2 items. If I need to break down 6 items to make either, that would cost me (5g x 6 items x 5 combines) 1p 50g in tier 1 or 2. In tier 8 that would cost me (14g vendor price x 6 items x 2 combines) 1p 58g if I gather the items needed myself as drops. Current prices for a tier 8 item on the market is 17-20g for really cheap stuff. Tier 9 will make the price difference worse as the vendor price should increase, and so will the broker prices.
Right now prices of tier 1 and 2 items are cheaper than 5g each, but with the kind of demand a wide scale skilling up will place on the broker the price will skyrocket over night.

Kigneer wrote:

PvE servers, yes, because almost everyone is in a 'race' to reach level cap. PvP servers and the 'smell the roses' players on PvE generally level A LOT slower and those lower level adornments are useful.

Rijacki wrote:

With gear changes in PvP that's not likely anymore, since now they can twink out faster, just like on PvE servers.
The only group that could use at level adorns would be the AA hoarders, and even them it's difficult to see them using the adorns as they're still costly. Why put a 17p adorn on a 1p valued piece of gear? The meager stats wouldn't justify the price.

Meirril wrote:

Nope. The prices on even lower level recipe books will show folks the problem -- not enough players farming lower tiered areas to gain the necessary gear to break down (especially fabled items for manas). Their non-availability will dictate the price, not by how many can actually make the gear.