Today's Feedback from "News"

Discussion in 'General Feedback' started by Notnasty, Mar 31, 2023.

  1. Notnasty Member

    I'm concerned about Daybreak planning to send out a form/survey to have players comment on balancing the different classes. The classes are different for a reason, and that makes the game a challenge. I'm very worried that the classes will be diluted and their purpose in the game will be blurred. Example, a tank should not be able to heal, that is why there is a healer as a support class. And, a healer should not be expert at tanking. I understand there are many players that solo, that makes the pet classes perfect for those types of players. Tanks that solo now have the option to add a healer mercenary. Use it. For those that group and raid, experienced players know what classes to invite to optimize their group.

    I'm asking Daybreak to please have the confidence to not mess with classes strengths and weaknesses based on the loud complaining of a few that will NEVER be satisfied. Daybreak, stay confident in the classes, do not dilute their strengths and weaknesses. Remember, as Abraham Lincoln said, "You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time."

    Please don't balance classes by diluting their strengths and weaknesses.
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  2. Geroblue Well-Known Member

    'Character balance' is a silly myth and makes no sense to attempt.
  3. Feara Well-Known Member

    I Solo/Molo and I agree with these statements. I love my Mercs.
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  4. Jrox Well-Known Member

    I am assuming none of you plays live current content in a heavy grp or raid setting. But there are a few classes that are really suffering. Note: Mine is not one of them so I have no bone in the bowl so to speak. But as an avid raider and running groups every night when I'm not raiding this is something that is very noticable. It would be nice to see some of these classes be made worth playing again.

    I will add, dirges have it super rough when every xpack you need a power feed and troubs or enchanters are all that you can really rely on in heroics. Why? Because you need 2 DPS, a tank and two heals. (In most cases)

    Please "DO" correct and balance some of the classes to where they were "Intended" to be. Currently they are "NOT".
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  5. Feara Well-Known Member

    For me, this is correct.

    I assumed that Notnasty is worried that it could be taken to an extreme one way or another and fears to lose the balance of a whole team.
    Jrox likes this.
  6. Jrox Well-Known Member

    It's great to share thoughts. I just think we should be more specific and concise with what we share and think. If your a solo player state how you feel about solo content and classes that you play as they are effected by that environment and not use blanket statements. Blanket statements can turn into bigger problems than what we have if they are ever taken at face value.
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  7. Feara Well-Known Member

    Yes I agree. But the way it's worded below I take from this the concern is based on some players wanting changes for overpowering to Solo which I don't agree with.

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  8. Jrox Well-Known Member

    Absolutely. I believe there are a few classes that should have a heal or two based on class away from the actual healers themselves. I do not agree with him either. Paladins should have their heals and protection. Necromancers should keep life tap. Etc. Etc. Anything that reflects the true nature of what the class has always been or intended to be should remain.
    Breanna likes this.
  9. Tanto Done, finished, gone.

    All classes are very much capable (in the right hands) of completing all current solo content. The speed and ease that you complete it is much more to do with gear, skill and familiarity than class balance.
    Group/Raid content is a very different story, with many classes literally locked out because they don't fit in the optimum group composition required to complete it. This is where changes need to be made, and don't worry solo players, this would have an inconsequentially tiny effect on your in-game experience.
    Be mindful that players have and are quitting in numbers because of being locked out of content and feeling their character has become useless and no longer viable in group/raid content. If you like the "massively" part of this game, these changes need doing, they need doing quickly and competently. (The last part of that would be my biggest concern, but it won't really affect solo players)

    Personally I don't think it'll be possible to undo the mess without a great deal more investment (money/time/effort/motivation) than is ever going to come. So my suggestion is why not flip the table over and just remove all the broken classes, doing a forced betrayal to their archetype alternative? I know, I know, die-hard fans of the class will be annoyed at waking up and being a mystic instead of a defiler, but who cares? Do you really think your class is going to be fixed? There's much more at play than just broken abilities and stats, it's how the class works and fits into the mechanics that is also broken. There's too much to fix and it'll never happen. So why not tear off the band aid and reduce the number of classes to make them easier to manage with the 3 devs and an intern Daybreak are willing to fund for this game? Have half the number of classes and they might just be able to make them work.
  10. Kuulei Well-Known Member

    I don't think the balancing is to make all players the same.
    I believe it's to make "predators" the same (assassin / ranger), Shaman the same (mystic / defiler), Etc.
    As it currently is, some classes just are horrible when it comes to competing with their "counterparts"
    It's just not right that there is such a disparity between players of the same subclass.

    Look at fury and warden; Fury is the 'spellcaster' of the druids, the Warden is supposedly the melee of the druids yet all the warden gets is 4 combat arts from AA's so they actually have ZERO combat arts innately and 5 spells? If you take the converted spells into combat arts you can't really use both as the CA version of the spell overrides the actual spell. Too many AA's are outdated and worthless. The epic pet is squishy and it's output has diminished this expac.
  11. Pixistik Don't like it? You're not alone!

    Your talking about the people who removed aggro from the coercers charm pet, they really dont understand what the difference is between strength and weakness.

    I have seen their forms/surveys, they are worded in such a way as to make it weighted to what they want to do anyway, so you needn't worry, we the customers still wont have a say in what they "balance:rolleyes:"

    smoke and mirrors
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  12. DENSER Well-Known Member

    on the one hand I think it's great. on the other hand I'm quite suspicious, seeing how they can turn everything upside down, it scares me lol
    Geroblue likes this.
  13. Jrox Well-Known Member

    Last xpack I rolled with a defiler who rocked it. I think those who know a class should be the ones to determine weather they need adjustments and where. For anyone not playing a class, they really do not have a good idea of what's needed to be done.
    .........................

    Another thought unrelated to your post...

    Bards and the Illy should be next in line for adjustment after assassins. IMHO, these classes have become so scarce it's crazy. No-one truly wants to play them except for the die-hards that are just trying to hang on to older times. Their DPS is in the tank and it makes them ZERO fun to play. I have tried to force myself to play them thinking it was just because their were no good ones left, (With a DPS weight in mind). When truth be told, I upgraded all the spells, got all the things, worked through countless AA specs, spell/CA rotations and testing in zones, in grps, all the while never able to generate any real DPS. I could do the solos on any of them with the gear out of the box and a merc, but get in a grp or raid and DPS is less than a tenth of what a T1 is doing. Is that the type of divide we want as a community? Do we want support classes that low, where only 5-6 people in raid are doing all the DPS and all other classes are simply told, "FILL your role"? I mean how long do you think these folks will stick around just so the DPS classes can have fun? They wont long term, and if you think otherwise, your kidding yourself.
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  14. Bhayar Well-Known Member

    While on the face of things, Tanto's logic works--i.e., classes being broken and is it reasonable they'll ever get fixed, so let's just wipe the slate and betray, it has two patently obvious flaws. The devs have achieved "celestial" level skill in breaking classes, with not much to show for the fixing thereof despite numerous attempts or promises over the years at fixing them. I know they don't like criticism, but let's take the egos out of this and deal with the facts. Some classes are broken and have been for quite some time. The first problem with Tanto's proposal is this--what guarantee are we going to see a year later that class you want everyone to betray to will stay unbroken? We've all been playing for years and the list is long and glorious for broken classes cycling through every xpac. Secondly, let's see, now I can betray from a defiler to a mystic, but what happens when I do that? Will I get all the spells I carefully levelled up to cross lines or am I starting out at a different level and am forced to spend money to get spells up to the level I had the other class? Frankly, I speculate at times classes are not destroyed for the sake of "balancing," they're destroyed because cash flow is low and what a great way to increase the flow to the coffers. Seriously, if you're minimally competent at a job, how is it, Grasshopper that you can break a class and can't fix it after 10-15 years or more on the job of performing that specific job function and the class is broken after several years? Can anyone name any industry that produces a product that constantly screws the product up every year? My apologies for a major digress from the original point. I sometimes get tired of hearing about what can't happen vs. focusing on what should be happening. All I know is people are getting tired of it--we're tired of talking about it and I suspect the devs are tired of hearing it. So, if both sides are tired, then let's just fix the damn thing and enjoy life for a change.
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  15. Jrox Well-Known Member


    What an xpack it would be just to have everything balanced and working as intended, just once...

    Feeling your frustration, as I am right there with you.
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  16. Jrox Well-Known Member

    There are simple fixes to every class that I have played and know are broken.

    I cannot add to the Assassin conversation. Because while I have one I have never put enough time into them to understand all the mechanics of how that DPS is supposed to be generated.

    I can however tell you exactly what's wrong with the Illy, Berserker, Dirge, & Necro. And honestly, Illy and Dirge first then Berserker only because it's all but brawlers and the necro would be a very distant minimal fix. Just my opinion, and only regarding these classes. Not down playing others that need work, as I know there are many others.
    Geroblue likes this.
  17. Bentenn Well-Known Member

    what's wrong with the illi and dirge? Let's start there.
  18. Bhayar Well-Known Member

    Do you play either class currently? Let's start there first. I'm interested in what people who play them have to say.
  19. Bentenn Well-Known Member


    I play a dirge.

    We have a lot of people that got spoiled with the auto-attack dirge that was keeping up with T1's 3 expansions ago. Could our CA's and spells use a little tweaking, sure, but so much more could be updated as far as buffing the groups and raids to be a solid support class. I play it because I enjoy having 50 things to do, not standing there, spamming spells to try and see what my own parse can be lol.. If I wanted to top a parse or parse high, I would play a dps.

    I say all this because you can read anything about any bard talks in discord or the forums here and what most people ask for is DPS lol.. DPS DPS DPS. Some of those players are returning players that played when bards could auto attack dps, which lets face it wasn't hard to reforge and get that, but some are returning DPS that simply don't want to play all the catch up games from the previous expansions and thus are playing support classes that raids still need. No raid will turn down a bard lol, simple as that.
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  20. Feara Well-Known Member

    I'm not finding this, where did you see this? I'm only finding the thread on the Class Balance Forums coming soon.