To shield or not to shield, that be the question?

One quick note: I was using dropped dual wields (better than reg crafted but not as good as rare crafted) last night and looked at my listed spell damage. Adept 3 Vanquish was listed as 660 damage. When I equiped a 1 handed raid quality weapon + shield my listed damage was in the 800's. This was the same across the board. I showed an overal 20% gain on listed skill damage by equiping a 1 handed weapon. Going to finish heirocrook tonight and compare again. But in battles which are skill intensive, its important to keep this damage difference in mind. So its really accurate to look at the damage that dualwields are by having two weapons to attack with, vs the damage that your skills are hitting for with a one-handed weapon.

Are you sure that it's not the bonuses on the sword and shield that are increasing the skill damage? If the sword or shield has higher power and strength bonuses that might increase the damage of the skill. I was told that the type of weapon you use has no bearing on your skill efficency, unless that type is required by that skill such as press or power cleave, etc. I will check this tonight, and post feedback.

Raid quality drops have jacked up stats. If you buff put on a strength buff, your damage for that skill will show an increase as well. It's especially notable when when you break one of the STR barriers (100, 150, 200 300 400). A raid quality dual can have the same effect.
Berserker's are FIGHTERS. Fighters are classified as a tank but that is ONE of their abilities. Fighters fight. We take the fight to the mob and we bring the fight to us. We hold aggro, take damage, deal damage and in general, kick alot of crap out of things. To say that DPS is not important to a fighter is like saying evac and pathfinding are not important to a scout because a scout is a DPS class.
There is a reason we can use a mass variety of weapons. There is a reason we can wear a plethora of armor styles. There is a reason we can wield two weapons at once and yes, there is a reason we can wield all manner of shields. We have thousands of more combinations available to us compared to other classes and we can learn to fight effectively for nearly all of them. To say or imply that one can only effectively tank with a shield is shortsighted and an insult to those who have taken down epics without one just as it is shortsighted to say that it is better to not use a shield.
The basic problem here is this: Those that are use to and prefer to use shields don't adapt to dual wielding the same way that dual wielders do. The same goes for dual wielders trying to use shields. There is a mentality behind each that effects the development of the character's stats and abilities and choices in gear and more importantly: playstyle. So for a dual wielder to go out and "test" a shield is going to result in a lower effectiveness that a tried and true shield user would show while he is using one and vice versa.

Anyone who is a decent tank and knows his stuff, knows that there is parts and areas where you can Dual weild, and there is other parts and areas where you need a shield and 1 hander wep, with out one you and your group would be smeared all over the floor.
I myself have a Set of Slashing, Piercing and Crushing Dual Weilds, i have a set of Slashing, Piercing and Crushing One Handers and i have a Pristine Conditioned Cedar Tower shield, this way, i am ready for anything that may be immune to slashing, crushing or piercing, i also have sets that include, dropped, player made and Heritage sets for the same three offense skills, because its not always about being immune to the three offense skills, mobs can also be immuned to player made weps, or dropped weps and even Heritage weps. I carry these sets on me at all times and i name my bag The Arsenal.
Being prepared is what makes a good player, knowing when, where and how to use different weapon combinations at certain times in conjunction with certain buffs and combat arts, is what makes a great tank.
Taemek Frozenberg 44th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

I'm sorry Aeonein, but you should really go back and reread every post I made under this topic. I think You'll find that in pretty much every reply I recommended a shield for certain encounters. Running around with a shield ALL the time was the area that I disputed as a point of necessity. You said it yourself that you keep alternate weapon styles in your pack.... so you agree it's not needed all the time. The issue of the poster: He didn't understand the benefits of "to shield or not to shield" and didn't realize the necessity or lack thereof in the many situations of the game.

As easy as it may be for you to come by, we don't all have the kind of money for that kind of arsenal. I certainly don't. I'll eventually build one up, but as of now... I don't. :smileytongue:

For 90 to 95% or so of the mobs out there, the shield will be optional. But the real fun (and best drops) are the raid mobs and for those you'll probably want as much mitigation as possible IF you want to attempt tanking one yourself... and that means having the biggest, toughest shield you can get your hands on.

Well i really dont buy anything to be honest, i buy what i need to buy, not what i want to buy. Cedar on my server has been a pretty low price lately, as low as 20 gold, so i was lucky enough to get 2 pristine conditioned cedar batons and a cedar tower shield made up, rest is mostly cheaper stuff but gets the job done but i dont spend money on stuff i can easily quest or farm myself, im some what a bit of a tight [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] if you will say, but saving my money for Ebon Armor, which everyone knows, is not cheap.
Also i was one of the orginal replyers to this thread, i was relating to you what you said previously with my own experiences. One thing to learn in this game, is never get used to one thing, cause it will break you later on down the track.
Taemek Frozenberg 44th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

Well for any of you worried about choosing berserker and tanking high end raid content... don't be.. I have tanked all instanced mobs, venekor, asphyxia... We are a very viable choice, but I do recommend to ALWAYS use a shield when tanking named encounters unless they are really weak. You don't lose much dps and you save your healers alot of mana. With shield i usually come in around 4th or 5th on damage output while tanking epic raid mobs...

Lodoz

That's what I'm saying! I'll never dispute that a zerker should go with a shield for those mobs. It's the other stuff where it becomes more a matter of preference.

Group=Shield
Solo=2-Hander

After the new ac/avoidance/mitigation number patch came down.. I went in eager to see what it showed....

If those numbers are correct, my tower shield on my 31 serker adds a whopping 5% avoidance to getting hit...

I have to say, with such a low improvement as 5%.... I am not sure that it is enough of a avoidance boost to really make much of a difference in most content when compared to the stat bonuses you can get with some weapons....in really heavy hitting stuff like raid content or high order mobs 5% can be quite a boost.. but if they are above your level that 5% is less since these numbers are calculated vs an average mob at your level..

So, I have to change my view on this... for normal content getting better damage and more importantly getting better stats can very easily overwhelm a whopping 5% avoidance as far as I am concerned..

Maybe others of you get better changes.. but for me... I am gonna go get me a nice 2h weapon and play with that for a while ...

You have a hollywood view of berserkers then. The Berserkir was a Norse warrior that would work themselves into a blood rage before battle. This had nothing to do with their weapons.
The documented evidence is of course the Norse Sagas, where they were usally depicted in not the best of light, HOWEVER, in one instance there is a description of Berserkirs being thwarted in some way and chewing on their shields in consternation. Also there are references by the Irish of the norhmen berserkers running at them while beating their weapons against their shields, frothing at the mouth (literaly) and screaming incoherently as "a beast with many mouths and a single voice."
Berserker is about the mind set, not the weapon choice. But... if you really want to be 100% accurate in your desire to be a "real" Zerker, then don't wear armor. The berserkers wore next to nothing when they charged into combat. You should not wear anything higher than leather, then criticize others for their choice of weapon style.

Under this line of thinking I should actually do more damage with two dual wields (b/c I can get roughly 20 str depending on the two that I use, as supposed to the 14-15ish on the Tundran Axe). The information given was also unbuffed so indepent of any skill/str bonuses given by skills.
I think the new Damage Rating on weapons explains this better now than does and stat or single hand increases. The two weapons I were dualwielding at the time had ratings of 21 and 21 where as my Tundran Axe had a rating of 44. This held true as well when I switched from Tundran Axe to Heirophant Staff (44-50 damage rating) and my skills went up. So I think now the question of what to wield will be easier to compare due to the comparibility of damage ratings.

First of all it doesnt matter whether you dw or use shield your mitigation is same in both. Shield armor rating only defines block % in avoidance period. If you wear a shield you have additional chance to block/avoid incoming hit. With dual wield you have basicly 1 advantage vs. 2h or 1h+shield imo that you'll get nice mods from both weaps. But then again +20 str and +20agi is going to give you +10 attack (didnt check real values) and 0.8% to base avoidance and 0.8% parry. With 1h or 2h you'll get less ripostes. Also at higher levels berserkers have quite nice haste effects and think where you'll get more out of it, 50% speed away from 1.3sec weapon or 50% speed away from 3sec weapon which hits hard. Also we dont know if there is hard cap on attack speeds. I most certain believe that there is either 0.5sec or 1 sec.

You'll propably keep aggro better with dw tho cause you are creating constantly aggro faster. And if you're going to dw route I strongly suggest investing in agility cause in the end it'll help a lot. Anyways suppose every combination works rather well for us cause we aren't so avoidance based (though that was brawlers job ) as guardians are in tanking.

As for me, if im the main tank, i usually use 1h and shield, all other roles, wether solo or off-tank its all 2hander or dual wield to me.

Im soloing 5-6 green / blue mobs in Ferrott at level 41 and only using my faithful Mammoth, while soloing i very rarely use my shield, unless fighting really hard mobs (but even then i hesitate).

But when main tank, shield gives that defense edge.

I think its situational.

Avoidance wise, I choosed to play a Dark Elf berserker for a reason, My AGI stats are almost as high as a scout (115+ in my mid 30s, my STR stats are the same) and the shield just gives an added bonus to that. Usually I get along fine tanking mobs using dual wields for now. DPS as well as taunt abilities and AOE attacks are very helpful in keeping aggro. If it gets bad i've been known to equip a shield during a fight. Also raid mobs I'll always use a shield, makes a big difference when you are off tanking and get getting beat on whil everyone else is assisting the MA on the weaker mobs first. Thats why I spend money and buy all the "treasured" armor I can, player crafted is OK at first but In my late 30s I have almost all plate armor and silvril helm and boots along w/ guardian's gauntlets. lvl 40 is comming soon and I'm not sure if im going to go the fulginate route right away. IMO looted/quested armor will always be better so if anyone has any suggestions that would be much appreciated. Also, what has better damgae output, 2h or dual wield? And one more thing... Tower shields are good but the best T4 shield (Guard of Grumm) is a kite shield, And last time I checked Deputy Badge is a kite shield as well

Kite shields are better than tower shields.
And shields give you avoidance, not mitigation (through blocking)