[TLE] PvE Coercer vs Illusionist

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Zansobar, Aug 26, 2015.

  1. Zansobar New Member

    I apologize for another thread on this topic but I couldn't tell if other threads (concerning Coercer vs Illusionist) were related to Live servers or the TLE ones.

    Anyway, can someone provide some feedback on the pros/cons of each class relative to the other for the TLE PVE server? I recently found that apparently I can make a coercer and still play on the good side (Qeynos) and if true then that is one less disparity between the two classes.

    So I know at launch coercer was nice due to charm not nerfing the stats of the mobs you charmed, but with it now just making it a normal like pet is charm even a real advantage for coercer anymore?

    Which class is more sought after in groups? I heard the coercer has better power regen, but am not sure if that is true on TLE.

    Which class can solo better? I have heard that Illy may be better at this due to the permanent pet?

    Also on Charm any idea how long it lasts these days? Are we talking seconds, minutes, or tens of minutes? When you charm a mob does it adjust the level up or down to your level or leave the pet at the mob level?
  2. Zeozx New Member

    Charm is still an advantage yes... The thing with charm is you cannot just charm anything spellcasters make the best pets but there are aoe spellcaster mobs and they will put you in tough situations... Charm last between 5-10 mins (only level 28 atm) power management for them I think they have 1 skill at 28 that the illy doesn't, but honestly not much difference... Solo depends on play style the coerced has more in terms of group cc but more single target dmg. So can control group encounters but only burn them 1 at a time... Illy has more single target cc and more group dmg... So illy can clear group encounters faster but will take more dmg. Early levels the illy pet is strong but later levels it isn't as strong...

    Group utility depends on what you play with mages/priest love Ilys and fighter/scout love coercers.
  3. Zeozx New Member

    Forgot to include why caster pets are better than melee... Caster keep all abilities while melee do not. So caster pets will still nuke very good dmg while melee only auto. At 28 a Mage or preist pet hit for an average of 500 fm from abilities and autos where melee only hit for 50-150 auto... So there is a big difference. If you plan to use charm get it expert or master for the best dmg. Do t expect illy pet or charmed pet to tank mobs like necro pets... They won't. You will pull Aggro really quick so keep mobs stunned caster mobs silenced and melee mobs rooted. Mezz adds. The enchanters are a master of crowd control and can hoenstly solo a good bit it you can multitask. Keep your dots on mobs but do not refresh until they are off the mob you have 1 that of you have more than 50% mana will deal good dmg when it ends. Just be aware of you abilities and what they do. Chanters are also melee mages so do not be afraid to let your main target get in melee range once you get your melee reactive(coercer) (I believe illy gets one later) also know how your reactive a works and learn how to macro... You'll want to Marco mezzes so your group knows not to hit the mob u mezzed. I now coercers get dominate mind at level 28 idk about illy you'll want to self macro that it gives extra dmg on your next 3 spell cast against a monster so you will use that and hostage on cd as soon as it is up you will use it
  4. Zansobar New Member

    Thanks for the replies.

    So I played a bit on the coercer and found that the level of the mob under charm seems to remain. I found it odd that there is no pet bar, is this true or did I just not have a setting properly adjusted to get a pet bar when I charm a mob. Is there anyway to command the pet, perhaps with /slash commands?
  5. Zeozx New Member

    Atl-p brings up the pet window once opened as long as you don't close it will pop with all pets u charm but charm isn't a class pet like illy and summoners so the game doesn't trigger it
  6. Ucala Well-Known Member

    at the moment imo an illy is best in almost all cases on TLE
    illy buffs up haste, and if you are in some of the best gear that can give you a very small % of flurry on a scout (friend assassin got some flurry the other day in DFC group with me).
    the coercer's velocity buffs up MA doesn't it? which doesn't exist :p
    they can help with hate a little bit since they give a small amount. but it's not really noteable.

    the class defining stuff (Mana flow) isn't in the game yet and won't be for awhile :p they are almost equal in how well they can keep power up in their group.
    and illy does more dps
  7. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    Not that simple :) First of all DPS of coercer greatly depend on ability to get right pet ... caster pet with good level of charm (expert+) would easy keep up with predators/sorcs in group DPS wise. Velocity ... well it single target buff (since AA not yet in game). Other somewhat questionable advantage of coercer is ability to cast mez while stunned/stifled. Amount of hate transfer of course depend on quality of spell :) and unlike illy, coercer can also de-hate everyone but fighters. All in all - as long as coercer have master charm and warlock/wizard/ranger pet he will out DPS illy any day of week and twice on Sunday (on TLE)
  8. Zansobar New Member

    So does the level of the charmed pet make a difference or is the mob getting downgraded to your level even if it still shows as being his original level?
  9. Ucala Well-Known Member

    talking from a group/raid setting, the ability to cast mez while stunned factors to nothing.
    I only mez when I am soloing heroic names in Lavastorm at the moment :p
    illies also dehate people (although not as good I admit), coercers have peaceful link which is a % of dehate. illies have Syergism which decreases your threat byXamount when it procs. now I will admit peaceful link is better.
    now a coercer -should- be around 900-1k dps I hope, but illies are slightly above that, the gap should be even bigger in AE fights, the illy should easily dominate those

    but a coercer can't keep up dps with an illy :p it just won't happen
  10. Ucala Well-Known Member

    I am interested in knowing some coercer parses though if anyone has some from some of the higher guilds on the server. I can share some of mine (nothing ideal sadly).

    here is an AE fight we did (Part of Deception questline) last night.
    group was fury, illy, conj, necro, wizard. if only we had a troub then I would have done way better. and now that I have prismatic it should be even better :p

  11. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    As I said ... coercer DPS depend on ability to get warlock/wizard pet. Not happened on raids (at least on most raids) but in group - sure thing... Coercer need 2 things to get DPS over roof - master (or better GM) charm and nuker-pet. But you right in terms that relaying on own spells coercer aren't getting much (mostly from reactives and PBAE)
  12. Tayet Member

    I love coercers, I really do. But, until AA, illy just wins hands down. The buffs are better, the DPS is better, you don't have to stop every so often to let the illy break and recharm the pet, you don't have to worry about an early charm break in a tough fight and the coercer not being able to get it under control and wiping your group (which, yes a good coercer can handle their charmed pet easily, but I have seen a few that end up letting it just join in the fight).

    Once AA comes out, then coercer starts to shine. Coercive healing is awesome in raids and while solo healing a hard instance, but that's EoF. The boost to hostage and spell curse in AA really helps their DPS. Once RoK comes out, you get group mana flow. Right now, a lot of the utility we're used to in enchanters doesn't exist yet.

    Vanilla, yeah, I would take an illy if I really was trying to min/max. Mostly it doesn't matter though, you just want any power regen when doing groups so troub/illy/coercer will all get group options. And raid guilds will recruit them for the future. So, it's up to what you prefer to play.