Like i said the ability is a lvl 65 ability, if you need to be told when, how and where to use this ability, then your playing the wrong class.
Wow man you are not making any sense here. I'm taking the Wisdom line for the extra mitigation and resists as well as the extra DPS to help with my aggro control while I'm in my defense stance. D'er? FYI it will also alow me to use my offensive stance without the defense penalty. And the Belly Smash ability comes with a huge mit debuff and debuffs = aggro. And since it's a physical mitigation debuff it will allow me to do more damage to the mob while not effecting that of my caster friends. I'm also taking the AGI line for the extra avoidance and AOE attacks. Furthermore I'm putting some of my points into STA line as well so I can have a tad more HP. I am an offensive tank, not just a tank. I have never indicated otherwise. If I had wanted to be a purly defensive tank then I would have rolled a Guardian. I like having offensive abilities just as much as defensive ones. I do not like abilites, however, that severaly penalize one side while only moderately increasing the other. And that's exactly what Juggernaught does. Open your eyes.
Aonein, I think you're having a really bad day and just need to agitate others with your condescending comments. Hence, you lose credibility. Perhaps you have found Juggernaut useful when you MT with your "Hi-End Raiding" guild in the Peat Bog. I'm confident you burn those mobs down really fast. :robotsurprised: Unless, you have some constructive comments to make and share your expertise in the Berserker class, go troll another class' forum. Message Edited by Kosmetas on 03-08-200604:17 PM Message Edited by Kosmetas on 03-08-200604:37 PM
My feels are known on this spell. I'm a offensive tank. I'm an offensive AE'ing s.o.b. raid tank. I can not imagine a handy use for this spell. The increase in dps is minimal at best. The downsides are quite significant. If you never scribed this spell, your character would not be worse for it. Can you think of any other skill we have that you can say the same? 95% of the other spells we have, has a use at any time, or in any situation. This spell will never win a battle for you. If you use this spell, its because you were already going to win and you just want to increase your downtime. I'd honestly like to know a handy use for this spell. I dont want ground breaking, i want uses. Increasing our dps by 10-20% by increasing our damage taken by 50% is not handy in my books. Subjugating this spell for use only when i'm not the tank', is the only use i can think of. I'm 'not the tank' for perhaps 5% of my /played time. Can we have some handy uses for Juggernaut? I'll start: Handy use #1: Bringing spice back to those T6 pickup raids. "Everything's easy in Gates of Akhet Aken? Turn on the Juggernaut!" This spell has balancing issues. Having this spell properly balanced will only help us(Berserkers). Message Edited by Mjollnyr on 03-08-200607:29 PM
I think this Anemim guy or whatever his name is misses the whole point of what we discussing here..after 8 pages youi wouldt think he will get it..someone draw him a picture pls. Let me put it in caps, maybe it will hit you. I DONT WANT A SPELL THAT I CAN USE SOMETIMES, WHILE TRYING TO BE CAREFUL USING IT SO I WONT DIE. I WANT A SPELL LIKE EVERY OTHER CLASS HAS, THAT I CAN USE EVERY 3 MINS LIKE EVERY OTHER CLASS HAS, WITHOUT WORRYING THAT IT WILL KILL ME , JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CLASS HAS.
lol, ya, that would be nice are you kidding me? a level 26 monk is gonna come to the berserkers forum and tell us how to use our level 65 ability?? aonein = http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=117763111 apparently hasn't been around long enough to witness some broken things, and understand that things should be changed, and sometimes, actually are, when soe finally gets enough feedback to check into the issue. Message Edited by FightGame on 03-08-200606:35 PM
Aonein I'm very tired now and I am going to bed and really don't want to get into it with you because I will probably regret it in the morning. I will leave you with this though, I am also going the Wis line and it sure as heck is not for the added DPS. There also happens to be a mitigation increase in that line, unless you failed to notice that. And add on top of that the extra resist you get form taking Wis and you have a line which is just as much defensive as it is offensive. Even besides that, Belly Smash is not all about US dealing extra damage, it also has a very nice mitigation de-buff in it that is useful to the whole group. Good night and sweet dreams. I will continue this tomorrow.
:smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy: My god so funny, you think my sig would be enough..........ROFL, man the reading comprehensions of people are just too much these days not to mention there abilitys to open their eyes and see things. Not to mention the thread i have at the top of this forum with my sig in it, you know the one that is the only sticky thread in the Berserker forum........:smileyindifferent: Let me put it in a more simple tone, i been around alot longer then you sonny jim, since the first nerf hit us which was the nerf to our Berserker Rush line, then followed by Blood Rage, i could go on, but i think its enough. By the way Florin, yes i understand what you want, but thats not what all the berserkers want, they want the skill to stay the same as is and do a mountain of DPS or they want the skill to have no penalties and keep its crit chance. My argument is with the Berserkers who are lvl 65 plus who have this skill and have no clue how to use it...........its just plain insulting......to not only themselves being so blantly blind, but also to us as Berserkers. If you as a Berserker ( this isnt directed at you Florin ), cant learn how to play two different styles by now at lvl 65+ then you should reroll Guardians when the time comes that they let you respec as the opposite class from your Archtype. That is my argument, and yeah we might have a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ty penalty on our 65 CA, but id rather the penalty with the higher Crit chance then no penalty and a 5% crit chance for 75 HP consumption per tick, which you probally know is what SoE would do to the skill, nerf it to the point where its just not worth a pinch of salt both in a tanking postion OR a offtank postion. Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-09-200604:49 PM
Ahh yes very ture and well said, but you also forgot one thing, is 10.4% more hate gain going to be the same as 30% faster recovery times on taunts? Id go one here and say they would both work out the same. Acually lets do some math here, and lets base it off one minute and hyperthectically speaking lets say we land every taunt from Outrage for 1300, hyperthectically of course. So we have one sceanrio, 30% less recovery timers on a 8 second cast timer is 5.6 seconds: 60 / 5.6 = 10.7 * 1300 = 13,928.57 threat in 1 min. Now we will use 10.4% more hate gained on a 8 second cast timer: 60 / 8 = 7.5 * 1435.2 = 10,764 threat in 1 min. Now thats not with how much more threat or hate that crits add seeing that to go the more hate gain path you would effectively increase your chances to crit alot more then you would if you went the INT line for 30% faster reuse timers. Not to mention the amount of crit chance you get from other STR ability lines providing you use the right weapon for the line you chose. Without knowing any real hard data on how much crits acually do effect your threat generated over any period of time given, then lets just say that with the extra DPS generated from the STR line would equal the same as if you went the INT line. So basically its a moot point....its just a different style of game play that is generated from doing it this way. Not going to get into a statistical fight with you, because ive done the number crunching and what i see that will benefit my style of gameplay will be what i will be chosing, thats the point of the AS system, to give people a choice. Oh yeah ive taken it into account for a long time, but the results are mediocre at best and wont result in any change to your tanking ability or offensive ability. Its basically just a fluff ability, its nice to look at and yeah from a group point of view who does nothing but fight green and blue con mobs, the penalty removal might be worth it, but i dont do much fighting of blue con mobs unless its for quests that require me to kill those mobs. No they dont, but to have such items you need to sacrafice stats, so you got a choice, stats or crit chance, whats it going to be.:smileywink: Well at lvl 66 almost 67, i can tell you im glad you can max out your STR just with gear alone, must of cost alot to buy all that Fabled with +30 STR on it to hit 500+ STR just from gear, seeing the new cap at 70 is like 530 STR now i believe. :smileyvery-happy: Acually you might want to reread it, its every 2 seconds on Juggernaut. Not to mention the other HP regens that can be added by other classes ie: Wardens, Troubadors and also potions. :smileyvery-happy: Point was that its considered burst damage, not sustained, two completely different things. From a group point of view, or from players who have not seen probally much if any Tier 7 gear, the CA is fine, because people only see whats in front of them and not what could be off in the distance, people dont take into account what could be out there that could be obtainable, and im not speaking from a high end raid point of view here, im talking from a every day group point of view, stuff i do after raiding etc. Oh and please do qoute me where i have said " the str line is the best in the west ", cause i dont seem to remember saying that, another perfect example of peoples reading comprehensions clouding their minds. ANYWAYS, at the end of the day, yeah it would be nice if SoE did remove the penalites from this ability, but i wont be holding my breath thats for sure. Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-09-200604:36 PM
Hmmmm, Subdued Rage and Wall of Rage, why dont i see arguments about these abilites, these severly penalize your ability to output DPS which in turn holds agro remember while only moderately increasing the other, well Wall of Rage is ok i guess, but you get my point here, your argument is about arts that decrease one alot by only increasing the other by a small amount. Just pointing out a few CA's you may have missed.
Well, it seems we have a misunderstanding then. Neither me or you or anyone else says the spell sucks...we all say the penalties suck compare to other classes lv 65 spells and compared to the bonuses it gives. At the end of the day, the one thing that will make us all happy would be leaving the numbers on the spell as they are , 27% chance to crit, which is not that big anyway, and completly remove the penalties, maybe leave the HP cost on it.
Who cares for dps if it keeps you alive? Or in the case of juggernaut: who cares for dps if it kills you? Why can't you give us anysight on the knowledge obviously only you posses. Please tell us, which yellow one up solo mob did you kill easier with juggernaut, which yellow or orange named did you kill easier with juggernaut, which yellow tripple up heroic mob in the deeper parts of halls of fate did you kill easier with juggernaut? And because not every beserker out there is in full fabled and in perfect groups please use average gear and not perfectly balanced group (like the majority of beserkers).
Hey there, i would give my opinion about this as i'm testing this skill from a couple of levels (couldn't try it on beta servers cause i never got to 65). Here is actual Juggernaut (adept III): Target: Self Health: 51 to cast, 51 every 2.0 sec Casting: 1.0 sec Recovery: 0.5 Recast: 3 mins Duration: 24 secs Effects: + Increase Melee Crit Hit Chance by 24% + All combat arts have their base dmg increased (by 24%) - Decrease Parry and Defense of caster by 82 - Decrease Mitigation of caster vs all damage by 1820 This ability can only be used while berserk Now, this is how i would like it to be (changes in CAPS): Target: Self Health: 51 to cast, 51 every 2.0 sec Casting: 1.0 sec Recovery: 0.5 Recast: 15 MINS Duration: 24 secs Effects: + Increase Melee Crit Hit Chance by 24% + All combat arts have their base dmg increased (by 24%) + INCREASE MITIGATION OF CASTER VS ALL DAMAGE BY 1200 APPLIES "JUGGERANUT DRAWBACK" ON TERMINATION. LASTS FOR 24.0 SECS: - DECREASE ATTACK SPEED OF CASTER BY 24% (same as previous crit boost) - DECREASE DPS OF CASTER BY 24% (same as previous crit boost) - Decrease Parry and Defense of caster by 82 - Decrease Mitigation of caster vs all damage by 1820 This ability can only be used while berserk Now this would make it a "real" last ditch move, hich means u can be very overpowered for 24secs every 15mins (needed to increase that recast time otherwise it would have been unbalanced), with an increased mitigation too (juggernaut means that aswell) but after that u get a terrible drawback which will make u incapable of dealing any good dmg or tanking (maybe also add a malus to salshing/piercing/crushing if u think that's not enough). This change could make this skill really itneresting meaning if u use it u can possibly overwhelm a very though enemy but if u don't succeed in the next 24 secs u will be dead, plain and simple PS: ok ok let me dream Message Edited by Comalv on 03-09-200607:37 AM
Because even though they reduce our damage output, it is not our only means of holding agro. We do still have taunts to do that. Also, as a tank defense is by far > then offense. A berserkers ability to tank is built on a defensive base with some offense on the top to round it off. We are not built on offense with some defense added. That is why we wear plate armor and use tower shields, because we are defensive first. So yeah, Subdued Rage and Wall of Rage decrease our offense in trade for extra defense will not get an argument because for a tank defense > offense. Also, since you have been around so long you must remember the fairly severe defensive hits we took in exchange for going berserk. Why do you think those defensive penalties were removed from a class defining skill? Maybe because they severly limited our role as a tank?
"id rather the penalty with the higher Crit chance then no penalty and a 5% crit chance for 75 HP consumption per tick, which you probally know is what SoE would do to the skill, nerf it to the point where its just not worth a pinch of salt both in a tanking postion OR a offtank postion" You are so wrong. At least if they did that I would be able to think about using the spell while I am tanking or soloing and that is the only way that I will ever use it. Because I am not a DPS and I refuse to pretend like I am. I refuse to seek out other tanks to keep aggro for me just so I can use this ability. The way it is right now it is not even worth it for me to scribe it. Any change they might make to this spell would probably be for the better. So I am all for them changing it. And I will not even scribe it until they do. And that's ok if you are too lazy or selfish to show your parses while using this spell. I don't need to see them to know how bad this ability sucks. "the results are mediocre at best and wont result in any change to your tanking ability or offensive ability. Its basically just a fluff ability" And that is exactly why we want it changed! We are not willing to settle for that. Not when other classes are getting new spells that are actually quite useful. I'm really not sure why you are so against having it changed either when you even admit that it's not a good ability. That makes no sense at all! "Hmmmm, Subdued Rage and Wall of Rage, why dont i see arguments about these abilites, these severly penalize your ability to output DPS which in turn holds agro remember while only moderately increasing the other, well Wall of Rage is ok i guess, but you get my point here, your argument is about arts that decrease one alot by only increasing the other by a small amount. Just pointing out a few CA's you may have missed." Wow man you have just proved to everyone here that you have no idea how to play this class properly. Good job. Here, let me enlighten you. Those abilities are EMERGENCY defense/mitigation buffs that you only want to put on in extreme cases when you really need them to stay alive. And they do work quite well for that, trust me. Subdued Rage gives a very considerable bonus to your avoidance and Wall of Rage gives you a ton of extra mit and they both stack with the bonuses from our defense stance and the extra mit from Chaos (our group mit buff that doesn't come with any penalties) if you want to throw that on as well. Oh yeah and Subdued Rage doesn't clost any power to cast either so you can cast it even when you are totally oop. And while they do decrease your attack speed very considerably they do not effect the damage or effectiveness of your CA's at all. Have problems losing aggro with them on do you? Try Rescue and/or IG. Duh! Oh yeah, and both of those abilites are getting upgraded in this teir so we will have replacements for them that are even better. I'm looking forward to that. Message Edited by infernus006 on 03-09-200606:36 PM
It's pointless to argue with Taemek/Aoenin since he's trying to goad you with his petulant comments. Best to ignore him and not respond to his posts. Are there any Berserkers who have found this skill usefull? If so, would be good to hear your experiences. Tanks! :smileyhappy:
in exp groups i've tanked 99.9% of the time, if there was a higher lvl tank i still tank, i never let another person tank/pull mobs over me. I don't see how i'd want another tank in my group to specifically tank, so that i can wet my pallate over my 3min 27% crit chance. Or make a macro "juggernaught inc, shaman please x3 ward me"
It's ok I actually don't mind arguing with him. I love those "big-time" raiders who think that they know more about the game than anyone else just beause they do nothing but raid all the time (and suck at it too) and then they don't know how to do anything else but they come to the forums and post like they are some big-shot that's better than everyone else just because their guild lets them tag along and pretend like they are actually doing something to help kill the uber mobs. I mean, come on, as if a DPS-wannabe that admittingly is nothing more than extra baggage on their raids (and refuses to what they need to do in order to correct that) is so much better than someone else who busts their **** soloing quests and tanking tough heroic instances and XP grinding groups every single day of their life. Who do you think really knows more about their class in that case? LOL Message Edited by infernus006 on 03-09-200606:51 PM
