There's something I'm not understanding about combat mitigation

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Sogapa, Dec 8, 2016.

  1. Sogapa Active Member

    Hopefully light can be shed by those in the know.....

    I understand that some classes have a combat mitigation debuff, and the greenmist weapon has the proc for a 6.5 (i think) combat mitigation debuff. What I don't get is why some people in the same group have such a large disparity in the outgoing damage they did when compared to the previous expansion, and some are not doing significantly less damage.

    I'm not comparing people in group to one another, but to themselves last expansion.

    I get that the combat mitigation plays a part, but why are the exceptionally geared players only doing about 20% less damage than last expansion while average geared players are doing 90% less damage than last expansion if everyone meets the resolve requirement for the zone?

    The averagely geared players didn't just suddenly forget how they played their toons 2 months ago. Is there a certain gear threshold that minimizes the the debuffing effect that combat mitigation has? Does extra resolve help to reverse combat mitigation effects? does potency?

    Put another way perhaps...How much potency do you have to have to equal the dps you did last expansion? (group or raid setting)

    I have a toon that in solo instances will do an average of 28m dps with spikes up to 100m. In raids the same toon cannot do more than 15m dps, but last expansion in raids would do 35m dps while doing only 6m dps solo. I know these numbers make no sense, but it's a close approximation to what I am seeing. (Yes, I know the example in this last paragraph I talked about raids and not groups, but I haven't grouped with this particular toon yet)

    A character I have grouped on this expansion would have been doing 100m dps in an instance with 20 mobs attacking during ToT, but this expansion can only manage 10m with the same number of mobs attacking, while others in the same group are doing less damage, but were able to hit 200m instead of the 300m they were used to doing. Combat mitigation alone does not account for this disparity.

    I have never really cared a great deal about progression, but this feels an awful lot like regression. You get better gear to go backwards and be less effective in any setting other than solo.

    I tried to organize my thoughts, but I seem to be rambling a bit, so I'll stop it here. I'd just like to see some concise explanation of how combat mitigation works and how to more effectively get around it, because at this rate I'll give up on groups altogether out of frustration and I don't want to do that.
  2. Billzbub Active Member

    Some players are better at understanding new game mechanics faster than others. These players were likely doing tons of damage last expansion. They were able to learn very quickly which stats to max and which paths to take to accomplish it. For example, it took me until two days ago to figure out that my guardian needed the new 100k ability mod purple adorns. Before that, I was doing horrible. Now I am doing much, much better without having my resolve change at all.

    I think that the easiest way to explain what you are seeing is that some players are able to figure out the system faster than others and have the play time to really excel. Average players like me lag behind in awe of how more advanced players didn't lose nearly as much damage as we did.

    I could be wrong, and there's an existing game mechanic that benefits them more than us, but having known some exceptional players in my time, I think it is more likely that they've just improved much faster because their gear at first glance isn't really much better, but to a trained eye is optimized to the current system.
  3. Healsu Active Member

    @ Billzbub that statement is correct
  4. captainbeatty451 Well-Known Member

    When I talk to people in this expansion who say 'why is my damage not as good as yours' the answer is, 'i have 13k potency and you have 8. I have 4k crit bonus, and you have 2.' 8k potency was outstanding in ToT, it is pretty low for KA.

    People at my same potency and crit bonus are doing the same damage as I'm doing, give or take 10 or 20 million. Once you cross the 100m threshold vs heroic bosses, I don't really care what the number exactly says, because you're going to do very well in heroic content.

    So, the advice I have given is get your potency up over 10k and your crit bonus closer to 4k, your ability mod up closer or over 200k, and you'll start doing damage that is going to do well in your heroic group and probably at least will be decent in an average raid. You do not need heroic gear to do this, but the incarnadine chest, shadow quartz chest, off-hand, green mist, and new purple runes, and TS cloak will certainly help.
  5. Xerikton Active Member

    i thought crit bonus was capped at 3k. am i wrong or did they raise it for this expansion?
  6. Ynnek Well-Known Member

    They bumped it up to 4k.
    Shmogre likes this.
  7. Shmogre Well-Known Member

    Yup, what Ynnek said. From the KA expansion update notes:
  8. Surgeon Active Member

    I went from ~100m to ~150m-250m depending on the encounter, 300m rarely.
    ka solo and rtt geared
    ToT I had about 1200cb 10.5k pot
    KA ~3.5kcb ~15.5k pot
    brigand class, missing offhand eth rune and 2 blessed runes and a few wantia adorns.
    seems about right.

    raid geared I'd wager about 500-700m

    at that time I had exactly the amount of resolve needed for t2 heroic mobs.
  9. Mermut Well-Known Member

    Resolve and combat mit are totally unrelated mechanics.
    Malleria likes this.
  10. Sogapa Active Member

    I wholeheartedly admit that my OP was rambling. My thoughts were jumbled and I was trying to ask a question that became another, then I had another thought, etc. I was not very focused. It is understandable that some may have misunderstood what I was asking.

    You completely missed the point. I am not comparing my dps to the dps of someone else. I'm comparing my dps during ToT with my dps during KA.

    At what point of gear progression should I expect to equal the dps I did last expansion in a group or raid setting? i.e. Do I need 2x the potency or 3x the potency to equal the dps I did last expansion?

    Because I'll tell you for certain that starting out in groups with slightly higher stats in the case of one character and double the potency in the case of a second, I am not yet close to the numbers I personally was putting out last expansion. I couldn't give one piece of human waste what other people are doing.

    Are you saying that going from 1.2k cb and 10.5k potency to 3.5k cb and 15.5k potency, you gained about 50-150m dps depending on encounter? If so, maybe you understood what I was saying.

    Based upon the numbers you are providing your dps increases are along the lines of what would be expected if combat mitigation was not factored in, perhaps slightly less than what would be expected without combat mitigation. The problem is that combat mitigation is there and has to be dealt with.

    Your overall gear level is significantly higher than I am looking at, which is part of the question I'm curious about. I am wondering whether there is some hidden mechanic with combat mitigation that it is partly countered by a certain threshold of gear.
  11. Sogapa Active Member

    system glitched and caused double post
  12. captainbeatty451 Well-Known Member

    Sogapa, I was trying to give some numbers to show where you will start doing the type of damage that you probably could expect to do previously. The people who talked to me said the same types of things, like how they were doing great in ToT and then were not doing great in KA. The issue has been consistently low stats in the areas I mentioned. I don't know how much you were putting out previously, but in KA, if you want to break 100mil and get closer to 200mil and above, you are going to need 13k potency, 4k crit bonus, 200m+ ability mod. I hope that answers your question.
  13. Mandoblast Active Member

    As I understand Combat Mitigation, each mob in KA has this added stat that did not exist prior to KA. So, take a raid mob with 8500 combat mit. This mob mitigates damage (no idea what the actual mitigation is called) so that incoming raid damage is way less. Certain classes can debuff combat mitigation and the proc from the Greenmist will also debuff this stat. As with any debuff, lowering it on a mob means more damage. The Devs have not exactly been forthcoming on how this stat works really, but our raid force dps has almost doubled from day 1 due to increased gear with more Potency and the realization that we have to debuff combat mit as the #1 priority.

    So, to do more damage in heroics and raids:

    1. Get greenmist weapon to debuff combat mit.
    2. Make sure everyone knows how to cast their class spell to also debuff.
    3. Increase your potency as a priority over most every stat ASSUMING you meet the resolve check for a zone.
    4. Increase your Ability Mod and CB.
    5. Get your KA Sig line and OF achievement done.
    6. Farm keys and do heroic missions for mythical and fabled drops.
    7. Rinse and repeat as needed or until your eyes bleed from doing key quests forever...and ever....and ever...


    and ever....
    Mizgamer62 and captainbeatty451 like this.
  14. Surgeon Active Member

    where did I write that they weren't?
  15. Billzbub Active Member

    Is there a list of class spells that debuff combat mit somewhere?
  16. Surgeon Active Member

    abilities and effects that reduce cm:
    - coercer 4+1
    - rogues : 4
    - inq 3
    - bards 2+1
    - temp 2
    - sk 2
    - pally 1
  17. Billzbub Active Member

    *takes notes on who to group with and who not to group with*
  18. Mermut Well-Known Member

    You didn't, but you were mentioning combat mit and then listing your resolve, so I wasn't sure that you didn't think they were related.
  19. captainbeatty451 Well-Known Member

    This is kind of crazy. I feel like it should be all support classes have at least 2 and all tank classes should have at least one.

    Or, you know, more information on this stat would be helpful.

    For example, as a necromancer, I have gotten more in the habit of casting my dispel ability for noxious and arcane debuffing. Does this do anything to help towards combat mitigation? I also try to use my currently low level versions of the thaumaturgist debuffs toxic life and the other one.

    Wish we knew more.
  20. Malleria Well-Known Member

    For a detailed list, refer to the patch notes Here :)
  21. Billzbub Active Member

    Thanks! Based on those notes, here are the abilities that debuff critical mitigation:

    BARD: Zander's Choral Rebuff
    BRIGAND: Enhance: Dispatch, Dispatch Defense, Noxious Toxin, Murderous Rake
    CHANNELER: Poison Arrow
    COERCER: Enhance: Asylum, Enhance: Obliterated Psyche, Edge of Insanity, Tashiana
    DIRGE: Enhance: Verlien's Keen of Despair
    ENCHANTER: Nullifying Staff
    ILLUSIONIST: Debilitating Nightmares
    INQUISITOR: Enhance: Condemn, Torment, Writhing Strike
    PALADIN: Enhance: Righteousness
    TEMPLAR: Enhance: Mark of Divinity, Enhance: Rebuke
    TROUBADOR: Enhance: Depressing Chant, Enhance: Dancing Blade
    SHADOWKNIGHT: Enhance: Blasphemy, Enhance: Devouring Mists
    SWASHBUCKLER: Hangman's Noose, Enhance: Kidney Stab, Enhance: Flurry of Blades, Seafury Thrust