The Wonderful Story of EverQuest

Discussion in 'History and Lore 2' started by Mixxit, Jun 27, 2013.

  1. Innania Member

    The dragons were on Norrath before the other gods found it and created their own races. The Elddar elves, from which the Ydal were created, came much later than that.
  2. Meirril Well-Known Member

    I believe it is from one of the live events in EQ1 where Mayong was a NPC played by a dev.
  3. Mixxit Active Member

    the plane of sky / crystal claw of veeshan opening?
  4. Rezikai Member

    I don't think I've ever heard of the Ydal being created from the Elldarr Elves, I know the Tier'Dal are said to be created from the Elldarr elves but the Ydal were created by Inny in the Plane of Hate. As for Mayong's sayings... iirc

    As for why people think Mayong was around to see the 1st Brood.. Vhalar.. was the reason
    EQ Designer
    Mayong Mistmoore is his own race of vampire. He's older than any of the common player races. In fact, he's said to have seen the first of Veeshan's brood on Norrath. Perhaps something occured in those days that fueled his hatred of dragon kind . . .

    EQ Designer
    I will tell you that the shiliskin are not related to the kedge. And yes, Brell was the first to Norrath who created the pact amongst Tunare, Rallos Zek, and Prexus. I'll let you in on something -- the shiliskin already existed in the underfoot (underground of Norrath) when Brell Serilis first arrived. It was the shiliskin and several of the other creatures in Darkhollow that Brell encountered that caused him to create his realm and children elsewhere. Do we know who created the shiliskin? No. Do we know who created Mayong? No. This type of mystery will apply to several other intelligent creatures as well. "

    Mayong shouts, 'One of your lifetimes is but a fleeting moment compared to my endless existence.'
    Mayong shouts, 'I have watched civilizations rise and fall, seen races born or destroyed, witnessed the gods meddling pointlessly with mankind.'
    Mayong shouts, 'I was there when Rallos led his army into the Plane of Earth.'
    Mayong shouts, 'I saw Takish`Hiz buried under a sea of burning sand.'
    Mayong shouts, 'The trivial endeavors of the pantheon bored me, long before you ever existed.'
    Mayong shouts, 'I grew jaded and tired of this world eons ago.'
    "True immortality comes with a price...
    You cannot possibly comprehend the burdens I bare.
    There is an implied responsibility to watch over mankind.
    To mold it, to push it in the right direction.
    In addition to mointoring the progress of my minions across several continents. In a way, I am envious of your simple lives."
    Mayong shouts, 'The trivial endeavors of the pantheon bored me, long before you ever existed.'
    Now, I'm not going to preach anymore about who said what and what lore is canon vs. a timesplit and which Lore Dev whos name started w/a V was better. Cronon and Kaitheel are here now,... while Vhalar is still on EQ2 iirc we now know her as a different name. I'm hoping the new torch now the... 4th or 5th torch to be passed in the EQ-Universe? Burns bright enough for us to guide us through the long dark corridors of lore we know Mistmoore's history as.
  5. Meirril Well-Known Member

    Yep, if I remember correctly at least one of the collection pieces says the Ydal were created from mixing a drop of Inny's blood into the Ewer. Also this should of happened in the plane of hate and before the discovery of Norrath. Even Veeshan isn't aware of Norrath at this point.

    Again, if you buy into the Ydal story. I really, really don't want to.
  6. Mixxit Active Member

    I don't see any reason for this - there's nothing that says he didn't see the first brood after they had already arrived

    This quote you mentioned from the ydal collection piece doesn't require this all to happen before Veeshan arrived on norrath - i still see it as Innoruuk using the ewer from the fountain of life and using it to create the ydal which fits fie for me where i have it presently
  7. suka Well-Known Member

    sigh yeah and then they created another beautiful race - they stole humans and mated with them and created drakkens. However, by the time of eq2 - some 600 years later -- the drakkens are nowhere around- and neither is serpent spine- their home. or maybe they just haven't been rediscovered yet- can we discover the drakkens again please?
  8. Venomizer Member

    imo this hinges on 2 different theories. one takes anashti lore as authentic, and the other school of thought takes myong. anashti lore says she introduced undeath (norrath) with her ewer. said ewer created ydal. myong, arguably ydal, said he saw firstbrood. you have to discard his words if you want to accept her lore. its not reasonable to say he meant thru a vision, or he say them after they were all grown up a thousand years later. he had to be there for his lore to work.

    so how is an artifact of anashti around back in age of scale? how is anashti banished before bertox rises, as well as around long enough to see (and be worshipped) by offspring of tunare?

    i can see ppls perspective when they start with assumption anashti lore is accurate. but it absolutely destroys myong lore, as well as forces xulous into timeline in place where their existence would be known not only by elder races, but by the younger ones as well. but they arent known.

    personally i find anashti lore to be very weak. it makes several claims that i find hard to believe even if you start with presumption its correct. even the weakest circular logic can stand up on its own when you assume its correct.

    anashti was worshipped by elves.
    her ewer created ydal.
    she was banished before bertox ascension, before extinction of xulous.

    this means
    elves worship anashti->anashti banished->xulous die. in that order.

    this FORCES elves and xulous to be comtemporaries on the same continent (xulous lived on continent before it was known as tunaria). and this itself is a paradox. tunaria was named that after tunare after the first pact, a long time ago. the xulous story takes place there before it was named. so how they gonna be contemporaries? how is their story gonna take place before tunare names it after herself? this(xulous story) would all have to happen before first pact.

    anashti lore is a rotten apple. if you want to set a record straight, dont rely on ANYTHING she says.

    i like a [prehistoric anashti given an artifact by nameless/rhoen theer (ewer)], loans it to inny, who makes ydal, mayong then spies on norrath from plane of hate and sees firstbrood deposited. i like "age of scale" xulous, and anashti knowing all about their demise and Berts ascension before she got banished. maybe a bert guided void army spreading disease so he is absent for first pact. massively downplay her 'invention' of undeath.

    anashti cant coexist with much of the lore that is merely incidental to her, such as not knowing bert and missing xulvarien. let alone coexist in world in which xulous even participate. anashti banished before bert rose, xulous died before tunaria, tunare made elves, elves worshipped her.

    anashti lore has to destroy both myong and xulous(berts creation story) to survive.

    there is also the essential point that xulous lived in a dragon necropolis, and anashti invented undeath. they HAVE to be after her from mechanics standpoint.

    maybe she could be shoved back in time to age of scale, and worshipped by a mystery race instead of elves. whatever the case, her lore demands retcon.

    clearly the xulous are tied to xul'varien, who was killed long ago. anashti should know all about them since xul'varien was her rival.

    maybe you can make sense of this and i am missing a way to bring it all together. currently i do not see how that is possible.

    i would rather see myong and xulous lore win out. i would rather see a glimpse into the distant past (fun) than believe xulous were modern and basically unknown. we know the kedge, we know the shissar, we know the vah shir. not knowing a modern xulous strains believability.
  9. Rezikai Member

    Lets remember ancient relics such as the Ewer of Sul'Dae isn't around "just" when Silent City is around, that's when Tunaria's history starts to really use/talk about it. Lets not forget it was a planar artifact and Anashti's plane was the Plane of Health. Which means the Ewer probably existed long,... long.. before Norrath was ever struck by Veeshan.
  10. Mixxit Active Member

    The DOF Lore states anashti'sul was gone by the time the elves found out about her (read the rest of this thread for the quotes)
  11. Mixxit Active Member

    i keep having to repeat this but nothing prevents the dragons being on norrath before mistmoore - he was only there to witness the first brood which could have been countless years later

    I still dont see anything concrete that throws apart the order i have so far
  12. Rezikai Member

    Yea I kind have always assumed he wasn't just sitting alone on a dead rock of a planet when Veeshans shows up, him "seeing" the 1st brood may mean when he first saw them in the 1st 3000 yrs they were on Norrath before Brell ever showed up to seed the underfoot (subtunaria not the plane) with his races.

    The Age of Scale in-game book iirc says they were on Norrath some 3K years before the other gods even took notice. Now a lot can happen in that amount of time. Planar travel is possible so maybe in say 2K years after the dragons show up Ydal sages were able to go to and from distant places that may have included Norrath. Not that I'm saying they did but in those huge gaps in time plenty can happen.
  13. Mixxit Active Member

    For sure! I kind of feel like some of them may have been involved in the whole area of loping plains ages ago - maybe even creating mistmoore castle long before it was just the residence of mayong alone
  14. Rotherian Well-Known Member

    Vhalar's wording states "the first of Veeshan's brood on Norrath" not "Veeshan's first brood on Norrath". Why is this significant? Well, I'm glad you asked. Because it either means that Mayong was around when only one member of the First Brood (Yelinak, Hsagra, Harla Dar, Jen Sapara, Klandicar, Zlandicar, and Sontalak) was yet in existence (in other words, before the rest of them hatched), or that Mayong saw the first one hatch.

    Merely seeing members of Veeshan's First Brood isn't particularly significant. Rotherian has only been in existence since 2006, and he has personally met both Yelinak and Harla Dar. Additionally, when I played EQ, I met most of the others while working on ST access.
  15. Mixxit Active Member

    I don't think vhalar means the first dragon to hatch and I'd also say it's pretty significant to have witnessed the first of her brood considering she's making this comment on the eq1 boards and (although we adventurers had eventually discovered velious and made our way to the temple of veeshan) for the common folk, even catching a gilmpse of the dragons, (and so far back beyond the gnomes finding passage to velious) was a rare thing indeed outside of the few on antonica and kunark (which i'd wager was also a rare sight too)
  16. Rotherian Well-Known Member

    But the lore isn't being given to hostlers, vintners, and shopkeepers. It is being given to adventurers. We eat gravel and granola for breakfast and then go forth and slay things. :D It doesn't matter whether it is significant for NPCs. Is seeing one or more members of Veeshan's First Brood significant to an adventurer? I'd have to say that it really isn't. It wasn't even that significant years ago when I was working on ST access in EQ.

    We'll just have to agree to disagree on this point. Unless one of the lore devs decides to come in here and set the record straight. (And we both know how likely that is.;))
  17. Venomizer Member

    i thought nights of the dead and desert of ro/maj'dul were about anashti inventing undeath and it was tied to elves of takishhiz. if not, its a relief.

    1. Geography: tunare's elves (elder race) named the continent tunaria. xulous lived and died there long before that. xul'varien and a few other gods preceeded the first pact (or were omitted from records). that puts anashti in age of scale if not even before veeshan made her scars on velious. xul'varien is her rival. bertox is an upstart she just noticed, who came into being long before tunare came to norrath.

    2. Societies/history: tunaria elves would know kings rest xulous, if their timelines overlapped. it would be a documented part of the elder races version of history. having a modern anashti banishment (instead of in age of scale) puts xul'variens death in modern times as well. its nonsense from a historical point of view. nobody has even heard of this guy. anashti never even heard he was gone. that doesnt make any sense if her banishment was even RELATIVELY modern.

    this is why it drives me crazy when ppl try to put xulous in any age after Age of Scale (and with all its language about powerful dragons running the land too!). it MUST be after banishing anashti, which must be way before tunare. anashti fits in with the gods rhoen theer slew, they are old school deities. they abandon their races like veeshan (and others), they anger the godslayer, they invent undeath. they are ambitious and do stuff and bear the consequences.

    so back to my original point, if it wasnt elves, who is nights of the dead about? anashti unleashed undeath before first pact, so it cant be any race we've ever heard of that is indigenous to norrath. if it wasnt elves there may be some hope anashti lore isnt a steaming mess chronologically.

    putting anashti (and her ewer) back in age of scale or earlier gives prehistoric shard of hate time to create ydal before first of veeshan's brood hatch. it also gives innorruuk and bertox much more ancient dealings with norrath than histories of gods have hinted so far. council of gods lore paints them as latecomers/just absent.

    could anashti's race have constructed the quadroliths for ulteran transport? and jal'raeth still havent been placed in the pantheon or cosmos. who made them, what planet, how/when/where did rodcet ascend? i would think anashti would consider him a petulant disobedient child (for taking over her plane/godhood) if she created jal'raeth, and would have said so.

    i think one of the lore fragments involving rodcet (in qeynos, truly actually really qeynos, not kings rest or Lxanvon) implies the xulous are spreading disease across the universe. rodcet is way behind the times asking about that in qeynos. qeynos is a human city, which evolved from barbs, who were created by the very youngest deities in the pantheon. xulous lived and died before elves and elder races. unless he knows something more about their fate than we do.

    IMO, the most important fact in all of this is voice (of narrator). not all sources are created equally. i find anashti lore conflicts heavily with several other lore fragments i find important, but other than her lore being somewhat provincial (limited mostly to desert of flames, as a flavor of the month type focus; and shadow oddessey) i dont fault the sources.

    the ewer is powerful enough artifact to put her up in lore with the twin swords of destiny. it could easily be an necessary tool for apotheosis. used with incorrect inputs it can make you a lich. it could also be a tool for using Gift of Life (deities limited race creation). obviously it was used in creating ydal.

    what would really make anashti lore shine would be to iron out her chronology and give her stories where she interacts with the other deities. this helps us get a feel for her status and how others respond to her. otherwise she is just a loner of the past who noone knew or talked to. she needs to have her own council of gods with xul'varien and whatever insidious plan they came up with that got so many gods slain and anashti banished. and at the very least she should have a discussion with brell who is basically the discoverer of norrath for our history, as she hands over norrath to good side before she is banished.
  18. Innania Member

    They didn't mate with humans for the Drakkin, they just used their draconic powers to "meld" with them and create a new race. There was, however, ONE dragon-humanoid offspring. Dyn'Leth was the product of a dragon (Lethar, in High Elf form) mating with a true High Elf. He's pretty twisted looking, and not as pretty as the Drakkin.

    suka likes this.
  19. suka Well-Known Member

    Yeah Drakkins were pretty. I did all the sleeper awakening quests on mine- i had one of each color because each color quest was a little different. The breath spell is awesome on lower level toons.
  20. Meirril Well-Known Member

    And this is the reason why I always point to the time split occurring in 2004, not the Age of Cataclysm. The Drakkens were introduced to EQ1 a few expansions ago, well after PoP. Unless the devs here feel like providing lore to include them in EQ2, they aren't.