The Thex line

Discussion in 'History and Lore 2' started by Jacra, Nov 10, 2012.

  1. Jacra Member

    I'm digging around a bit as something about the Fae war confused me and that lead to confusion about the Thex line. Maybe someone can help me out.

    So far I thought Queen Cristianos killed her husband who was Thearis Thex and her son Talvus Thex before Neriak was sealed off.
    Then I found this piece of lore that talks about her husband ... Naythox Thex and how she had to siphone life from him because of the curse from Innoruk and they did this for a long time, both knew and agreed and both suffered from it - until she became addicted. And when he was gone one day she became mad and hateful that he was not allowing her that while learning she could do it from anyone, not just her husband. And Thearis is their child. o_O

    This Naythox Thex (I) dies finally. What about Queen Cristianos? Is she back then (that is the first Rallosian Army, Combine Empire etc. !) the same as the one today? If Talvus is her son and Thearis her husband ... did she commit ****** with her own son?!?
  2. Jacra Member

    Basically what I have so far:
    Cristianos & Naythex are the Elfen queen and king, Innoruk kidnapps them and tortures them around 500 years so they turn into Dark Elves. Their son Tearis remains with the Elves who are now that Dark Elves exist High Elves.
    Naythox and Cristianos hate each other but both follow Innoruk and are commanded to lead the Dark Elves together.

    Tearis becomes the king of the High Elves, he has a daughter, Lenya, with Allisa his queen. This is after the gods leave the world. And there is the illegitimate child from Allisa and Galeth Veredeth, an immortal from Tunares Plane of Growth, who was close advisor to Tearis. This child is Firiona Vie. Galeth is exiled, Allisa dies at child birth, the mix of immortal and mortal in the baby seems to be too much, Firiona becomes the Chosen of Tunare.

    And then there is something about Cristianos killing King Tearis Thex and his son Talvus.
    Is Talvus the brother of Lenya then? And Thex is indeed the son of Cristianos? And this the same Cristianos? How long do these elves live?!?
  3. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    okay here's how it works. Innorruuk took Naythnox and Cristanos to Hate and did torture them and mold them into the dark elves. Tearis Thex rules the high elves with Elizerain. think of them more like cousins in the bloodline. both high and dark are ruled by the Thex line...but the twisting of them into dark elves had physical and psychological effects as to make them an entire new breed. as to how long they live...pen and paper rpg states like 900 years. but we have lore in game that states that they can live thousands of years. (Elizerain was around during the lost age, making her at least 3k, and there's no mention of any other naythnox or cristanos but the originals as leaders) most go under the guise that elves are timeless.

    the queen didn't die in childbirth to FV. she was spurned by Tearis and Gareth was exiled, and trained her to be a paladin. there's nothing about her being from growth at all other then Tunare had an influence in bringing the queen and gareth together that I recall. Elizerain was the Queen and Lenya's mother. she also had visions and premonitions of the future. (the prime reason Mayong gets involved with Lenya was to get access to her final prediction before she died) but the birth of FV was loooooong before eq2. and Tearis eventually does come to accept her as a child of the royal line.

    but lets jump to the War of the Fay. the gods have left, and Naythnox and Cristanos wage war on Felwithe. Naythnox and Tearis kill each other in the siege of felwithe. felwithe is leveled by gnomish 'help' in the form of their tinkered machines. Cristanos sees an opportunity, and sends her private elite assassins to kill Talvus (who is her own son with Naythnox) and thus take all the power for herself. Talvus escapes death, and finds sanctuary in Freeport. thus forming the Thexian movement.

    Cristanos apparently does have children or adopts children of her own after taking full control of Neriak, though never marrying or giving whomever sired them any recognition. one boy and one girl. the girls name eludes me, but the boy is Tarrant.

    Elizerain dies shortly after the war of the fay, presumably grief striken. Lenya takes up the mantle of queen. Mayong uses his influence to make the elves agrophobic, twisting words that the reason Felwithe was lost was because of them allowing lessers into their home and allowing them into their defenses...that tunare abandoned them for their impurities and let felwithe fall. Leyna goes against this idea from the council, which seems to be made up of the queen/king and the leaders of the guilds. she's locked away for most of the length of time during eq2's start, so roughly 500 years. Mayong seduces her during this time, and basically runs 'New Tunaria' through her. new tunaria is closed off from the rest of the world, and they become the renda'dal, and thier lifespans are very short. like 70 years due to all the inbreeding to keep thier bloodlines 'pure'
  4. Jacra Member

    Hm thanks rainmare for all these informations. I appreciate it.
    Just confused: where do you have the name of Elizerain from? The lore I find in the Atheneum or Lore of Norrath speaks of Tearis and his Queen Allisa. Is it possible Allisa is the queen that gives birth to Firiona and Galeth (and it is Galeth who is from the plane of growth according to the lore books) and dies while giving birth - and Tearis marries again, this time Elizerain?
    Do we have any reference whose mother is Lenya? A book I found on LoreofNorrath says she is half sister to Firiona and Tearis does not know that Galeth is Fionas father.
    And do you have a reference for the claim that Tavus is a son of Cristianos? I mean the lore is clear that Tearis is Cristianos son, he got that corrupted helmet from Innoruk to draw Cristianos and Naythox into the plane of hate to beginn with (still normal elves) trying to save their child. If Cristianos would be the mother of both Tearis AND Lenyas brother Tavus (both Tearis as father) ... that would mean mother with son having a child?!? I mean yes, they are dark elves and yes, they all came from Cristianos and Naythox as parents, so the whole race necessarily must be generated through inbreeding, but Tearis remained unspoiled and Koa'Dal so why would he give in to his mother ...?

    Edit: I found that which says Elizerain was the queen for the three hundred years after the Hejira, the elven sea travel from the now destroyed Tunaria to Faydwer. When was Firiona Vie born?
    According to this and what I'm slowly cobbling together Elizerain dies before Firiona Vie is born. Firiona Vie is a friend of Al'Kabor as a youngster still after all and he is from Erudin, correct?
  5. Jacra Member

  6. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    the Depths of Darkhollow stuff doesn't apply to EQ2. pretty much any expansion past PoP doesn't apply to us lore wise unless specifically stated. and all the info from Eq2 point to Elizerain being the elvish queen. who gave Trakanon the scrolls from the ethernaughts, who also possessed the insanely rare gift of foresight. who matches up with Elizerain, Lenya's mother, who possessed foresight as well, and foresaw the destruction of Luclin as her last vision before her death shortly after the War of the Fay.
  7. Jacra Member

    So is there a reference that says "Elizerain is the mother of Lenya"? That is all I'm asking. :)

    From the Depth of Darkhollow and other (even if it is not official) lore it would rather seem that the line is:

    * Cristianos (not a Thex) and Naythox Thex are parents of Terias Thex (becomes King in Felwithe)
    * Naythox Thex and lover Seloxia are parents to Tarant Thex (still alive & in Neriak, his wife is Sulsera - not a Thex)
    * Elizerain is no Thex but married to Terias Thex & unclear if they have children
    * Allisea follows Elizerain after her death as new queen and cheats on Terias Thex with Galeth to conceive Firiona Vie, she dies at birth, Firiona is declared heir first and that revoked upon discovery of her through father
    * Lenya Thex follows later as queen but it is unclear who her mother is but she is claimed to be half sister to Firiona (that could be before it is uncovered that Terias is not her father), Talvus Thex is either her brother or Cristiano's son or both
  8. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    it's stated in the lore surrounding New Tunaria that Elizerain was Lenya and Marcus' mother. and Tearis' wife who died shortly after the war of the fay. she was also gifted with foresight, and hid her last vision. Mayong seduces Lenya to get access to this vision, and when he finds out if was her seeing the destruction of Luclin, basically says 'well that happened already' and is slightly annoyed. we know that Queen Elizerain delivered the scrolls to Trakanon, and considering the rareness of foresight, it's very unlikely that two elvish queens just happened to share the same name and the same gift. that puts Elizerain at living at least some 3000 years.

    the info I had for Gareth is that he was blessed by growth, not neccesarily from Growth, and was a member of the court when he and the Queen had thier tryst. he's exiled from Felwithe and takes FV with him and raises her. it's not until much later that Tearis admits her as part of the royal line.

    Talvus Thex is son to Naythnox and Cristanos, in line for the throne after Naythnox's that Cristanos attempts to murder him too and claims all the power for herself. Tarrant is in her room, he's a little boy, not a grown man in Neriak along with a sister. so either Cristanos adopted, or she had 2 more kids from an unknown sire.
  9. Jacra Member

    But the scrolls are the writing from Eylee correct? And she was travelling with Bayle and the Ethernauts according to official EQ2 lore. Firiona was later wasn't she?

    Do you have a link to the New Tunaria lore that mentions Elizerains name with Lenya? I haven't found anything so far unfortunately. And who is Marcus?

    And Tarant is grown up man and prince and a Thex by name so he must be son of Naythox (or Talvus).
  10. Jacra Member

    If you refer to that dialogue for the "Elizerain is the mother of Lenya"'s_Court that dialogue (I have it only in German here http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...n Lenya&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=opera ) does not say that Elizerain is her mother but it says that Elizerain was Queen before and did the prophecy - and the line since then has kept it hidden and Lenya knows the prophecy. No where does it say that Elizerain is the mother. It hints that the line has since her death over a long time ("since many years") and maybe several generations kept these safely. And nowhere does it say that Lenya has prophetic visions herself, just that she knows about the ones from Elizerain.
  11. Meirril Well-Known Member

    I have to agree with Jacra, I don't see any evidence that Elizerain was Queen during the Age of Turmoil or afterward. She should of died well before EQ1 started. Elzerain gave Trananon a set of prophacies before he went into seclusion in Old Sebilis. Again, pre-dating EQ1.

    There is also very good evidence that the current Cristanos and the last Terris Thex wern't the origionals. If you look at the pillars in Fallen Gate it lists a line of succeeding Kings and Queens of Nerriak. A lot of us took the position that the new King and Queen would probably take over the same names to strengthen their claim to the throne. The current Cristanos is probably the same as the one in EQ1. Also Cristanos started her plans to betray Terris before he even left. She sealed Nerriak shortly after the invasion force left for Fadewyr (using the halfling raid as a pretext). She also cut off all teleportation and communication from Nerriak. She has assassins planted in the army who had instructions to make sure other members of the royal family died during the war. The reminants of the invasion force split into four camps. Some survivors entered the service of Mayong Mistmoor and all traces of them have been lost. Others were absorbed into Clan Crushbone and are partially responsable for the domination of the Orcs by D'Vinn. Another splinter group took up camp in Lfay and are in a holding pattern (for hundreds of supply constant raids for supplies...seriously?), while another smaller group returned to Nektulous Forest and found themselves unable to enter Nerriak. Now that there is an entrance to Darklight Woods and Nerriak is open again they are still forbidden from entering the city as Cristanos doesn't trust forces that were loyal to Terris.
  12. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    Cristanos was never involved with Tearis. her husband was Naythnox. yes there were other statues in Fallen Gate of leaders. but you can take that two ways. 1) they were placed there becuase Naythnox and Cristanos were never supposed to be 'brought baclk' and thus retconned in, or 2) those were leaders that either managed to temporarily usurp them/guild leaders that shared the thex lineage.

    yes that was from the Ethernaughts. the part of Queen Elizerain giving the scrolls and a prophecy to Trakanon. it's dealing with the Tunarian Throne Room, and stuff from New Tunaria that tells you Elizerain was Lenya's mother, had the gift of foresight, and that Mayong was involved with Lenya to access that information. it's astronomically small that 2 queens, sharing the same name, shared the same incredibly rare gift would emerge in the same bloodline with identical looks thousands of years apart. It'd be one thing if it was Queen Andromea who shared elizerain's gift...but it's not. It's Elizerain. and not Elizerain the second, or third...but just Elizerain.

    there are far too many examples of elves in game living thousands or more years to take the P&P idea of them having a finite lifespan seriously. for example, Cristanos from Eq1 is the same Cristanos from millenia ago that was taken by Inny in the first place. same with Naythnox and Tearis. these elves lived thousands of years.

    Lady Shae was supposed to be one of the elves that was migrating that decided to make a home on tearfall island (what we call the isle of erollisi) yet she is alive and well some thousand years later to get romantically involved with a Bayle.

    Emperor D'vinn was Advisor D'vinn in eq1. so he's at the very least some 500+ years old minimum. Terran from Terran's grasp was an 'old soldier' that was basically retiring to take up a politcal role in Fironia Vie's outpost. he's at least a millienia old now, and there he is, hale and healthy in eq2.

    there's no reason to think that Cristanos and Naythnox are/were not the original elves. and no reason to think Cristanos isn't the same cristanos that was tortured in PoH for 5 centuries to become the original female dark elf...and is now the sole ruler of Neriak, like she was trying to accomplish during Eq1 in her constant undertoned power struggles with her husband.
  13. Jacra Member

    That is an interesting point with the pillars. I went there today and realized something: how do we know these were all kings or queens of Nerriak? Fallen Gate was the foreign quarter of Old Neriak, so many different races lived there (as we still see in all the creatures who roam as undeads). Is it possible that these are actually of different races too? When I look at the names mentioned there I can't find any other references but I went to Freeport and checked naming conventions and looked at all the names I have and there is no clear pattern saying "this is a dark elf name".
    But yes, that can be complete nonsense and it might very well be that the newest just took the names after a while. Though ... if it took 500 years to twist them from the Elves of Takish-Hiz and the Cristianos is the same as in EQ1 (which is before the sealing off, during sealing off and today) ... there is not an aweful lot of time for each king/queen if they are ruling Neriak in that window between Cristianos coming back, founding Teir'Dal and the some time before the sealing.

    And somehow I can't imagine that Cristianos as she is depicted would accept to keep pillars of other rulers standing. :D

    Rainmare: If you have any links or more precise information how to obtain the lore you mentioned, what quest or such - that would be great. I'm just trying to have references, unfortunately it seems a lot of lore is written in a style that easily leads to assumptions but if you read it carefully ... none are supported. Somehow that all smells like Vhalen's game of riddles and such. ;)

    By the way: does someone know what the High Elf calenders "B.T." refers to from the book of sunder? Or the P.D. calendar? I can't imagine B.T. is truly A. N. though the numbers are close (maybe 50 years difference?). P.D. the same, seems very similar ... I'm wondering if the T refers to Tunare.
  14. Jacra Member

  15. Rezikai Member

    Most of what Rapha says is going to be correct I'm told she's had the "connections" for a long time. As for Tarrant Thex he's the son of Naythox and his mistress Seloxia Punix, when Cristanos had Naythox (and attempted to have Talvus) slain Tarrant joined her side.. the pansy disloyal twit he is. Elizerain we're told in the book in Nek 3's side quest that she died some time just before the age of Turmoil "started".

    Also while I can't speak about Cristanos, the Naythox that was slain by Cristanos was not the original. Back in EQ1 there was a tale of him being a boy in Neriak when he had heard of drachnid raids on thexian commoners snatching them away for food. Neriak wasn't created until well after the original Naythox had gown to adulthood been turned blue from being a elddar elf.

    As Rain said they purposely keep it cloudy for hard times/dates/places. Mostly because it's hard to keep track and some friends say because they don't like to trample on many RP-guilds in-game RP lore they create that may contain legendary characters in them.
  16. Ragna Well-Known Member

    P&P only gives an average age for races, some individual get way older than that "naturaly". Then it's EQ and you have many ways to live even longer. For ex, being stranded in another plane (the Ethernauts, the Wurmslayer's guys in KoS), act of gods (Askr and Danak come to mind), necromancy (Venril used that before lichdom), rare artifacts etc.
  17. Jacra Member

    Do you know the source for the Seloxia story?
    Can you elaborate what "the book in Nek 3's side quest" is? Does that refer to the level 80 Nektulos forrest tunnel/dungeon behind the Castle of Nektulos? Any idea what the book title might be or any further detail? I've searched for hours through lore collections and Google links but haven't found anything on this and the name of Elizerain.
  18. Meaghan Stormfire Well-Known Member

    Those pillars in Fallen Gate have always bugged me as they fall completely outside of what tends to be known about history of the elven races. It's always been my understanding that Cristanos and Naythox were the first Dark Elves and that the Cristanos we have now is the same Cristanos that was the queen of Takish Hiz thousands of years ago. Remember, physical age means nothing when dealing with legendary figures, especially elves.

    Anyways, I'd like to point out that Elizerain Lake was on the first map of Norrath with EQ1, which suggests that she's dead by then as people tend not to have landmarks named for them unless they are dead or an egomaniac.

    I'd also like to point out that Lenya Thex is Koada'dal while Marcus Thex is Renda'dal which is somewhat odd if they are supposed to be true siblings.
  19. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    Marcus uses a regular elven model in the fight with him. it's not until you have to 'turn' him that he takes on the renda'dal look. and yes, they are siblings. he even calls her sister during the fight in the abbey. as to Elizerain. I still think she's the one from the lost age, and that she was lenya's mother. having a lake named after you doesn't mean dead or egomaniac. It could have been a place she was famous for making her prophecies at, or simply a place she lived at, that was named after her due to her fame. for example the 'mines of meldrath' were named such not because meldrath was an egomaniac, but because the other gnomes knew that the famous necromancer was living there.
  20. Jacra Member