(The process of) Leveling Crafting is Exceedingly Boring.

Discussion in 'Tradeskill Discussion' started by ARCHIVED-Tatwi, Mar 1, 2012.

  1. ARCHIVED-Katz Guest

    Some of adventuring is boring too. Grinding faction on repeatable quests for example. Some of crafting is boring, some of it isn't. I find the quests interesting and the house items that you can get once you get your faction up interesting.
    I despise grinding rush orders to level crafting. I only do it during double exp events.
    I miss the pristine bonus. Since it was taken out, I don't even make all the recipes in my recipe books now. Just the ones that are on rush writs.
    However, I have dabbled at crafting in many games. I've not found any that the actual crafting process wasn't boring or annoying. Sometimes interesting means complicated. I don't want to go through a gazzillion hoops to be able to make one thing.
  2. ARCHIVED-Tylia Guest

    It's all a matter of personal opinion, preference, and play style. To use broad generalizations and assumptions by saying that crafting is "too boring for the majority of people" without any back up proof from the population as a whole, is ridiculous. The vocal minority of players who post on these forums in no way represents that "majority" of players in the game. Even with the players who post, opinions are split.
    My opinion differs from the OP in that I do not find leveling crafting to be exceedingly boring. I enjoy all of the tradeskill quests, which greatly add to the leveling experience. That's my personal opinon, preference, and play style. It's no more "right" or "wrong" or "special snowflake" than anyone elses.
  3. ARCHIVED-Onorem Guest

    Rijacki wrote:
    Both push buttons. Wow.
    I craft. I enjoy it (rarely). To me, the major difference is that you can fail at adventuring. Sure, there are a few quests that have crafting requirements that don't allow for error...but they are few and far between. I loved when forges topped (or were treasure chests #1?) the list for cause of player death, and you had to pay attention to what you were doing. Death should be a real possibility on every combine as far as I'm concerned. (Yes, the adventure side is becoming more mind-numbingly boring and /afk-able daily. That sucks too.)
    In the past, adventurers may have had to keep extra gear in their bags to swap for resists or whatever depending on the fight...but that's pretty much gone with the ruined itemization DoV finished off. My armor is on. My weapons are on. That said, I really have no interest in crafting in 'the wild' anyway. Happy to do that in the guild hall.
    I'm not going to try to change the crafting process. I'll use it for what I need it for...and while the adventuring side of the game just keeps getting easier, saying crafting is the same because both push buttons is hilarious.
  4. ARCHIVED-Meirril Guest

    Rijacki wrote:
    Most of the points being brought up refer to everything outside of the process of crafting. The actual making of items which is what the OP is talking about. Quests, portable stations, writs, group crafting missions, even what is being made is all outside of the scope that the OP is making comments about.
    When you get rite down to it, the actual making of an item is booring, repedative, and basically 1) was there an event? (y/n) If y then counter + 2 other reactions. If n then 3 reactions of your choice (based on durability), repeat until complete. There are no actual decision points in the crafting process except if you want to push durability or progress. You can eliminate this decision by just focusing on durability. Indeed, you can skip paying attention all together by just building durability constantly. Failing to counter events won't ruin the item or kill you unless your doing a special quest combine or a series of flukes come up.
    More or less, the actual process of creating the items hasn't changed since it was first introduced. Yes, Domino did streamline the counters and make them into a more intuitive progress model that can accomidate gaining levels easier than the origonal system. Other than that, the processs has remained the same.
    I complained bitterly then, back in beta. I've complained about this a lot over the years. I am still of the opinion that it can change. Now if you want to say the same simplicity applies to adventuring I have to disagree. Circumstances change for adventurers. You have positioning to think of, the possability of adds, group composition, gear, possible special abilities from the target. There are many factors outside of pushing buttons that make adventuring more complicated than crafting. Unfortunately crafting can't benifit from most of these due to the UI limitations. Honestly, the mini-game and UI are horrible.
    While I love crafting, I hate the process. Always have.
  5. ARCHIVED-Mermut Guest

    Meirril wrote:
    I have to disagree with you here. Given that the title of the post is that the process of leveling is boring, quests and such are pertinent, as they are a way to level up crafting.
  6. ARCHIVED-Canthinkofaname Guest

    EQ2 is a button pushing game. I don't see how they could change crafting without coming up with a totally different system. The only thing that I can think of is a mini-game ala Ninetindo DS cooking games. I doubt folks would like that either, because it would be more complicated than it currently is.
    Personally, I'd prefer they didn't mess with crafting too much. The EQ devs seems to have this all or nothing mindset. Things are either so hard that casuals can't do them, or so easy that it's mind-numbingly boring. I do not want crafting to be any easier than it already is. I do not want a one button crafting system like EQ1 has. I want to interact with the crafting process.
    The only thing I really dislike about crafting is the tinkering and transmuting random skill ups. I like knowing that I'm getting experience for each combine.
    As far as adventuring being a button pushing game also. It's actually now a single button - Merc Attack. LOL All I do when leveling is point and shoot my merc, wait for the mob to die (normally in 2 hits,) check for loot and repeat. I'm not talking about 90 dungeons but the leveling process since that is what the OP talks about in regards to crafting.
  7. ARCHIVED-feldon30 Guest

    Daisey@Oasis wrote:
    As the current system is 1-2-3-1-2-3 (or 4-5-6-4-5-6 if you prefer), then yes, any improvement would be more complex. A steak is more complicated to eat than a ham sandwich, but the taste sure is better. A car is more complicated to operate than roller skates, but the ride sure is better.
    Please give us SOME kind of puzzle or something. Either a list of ingredients that we have to drag into position,or a little pipe flow diagram we have to complete. Or instead of the exact rigid 4 second cycle, give us different events to react to and let us react to them in any order. What ticks me off is, I am on the 4 second crafting cycle, I don't see a problem, so I hit my buttons, and then I guess due to a lag spike, THEN there's something to react to and of course I "failed" to react to it. I didn't fail to react to it. I just didn't see something to react to!
    And heck make it an optional crafting UI. Leave it so people can stick with 1-2-3-1-2-3 if they want.
    It's 2012. There's no reason why the MMO with the most advanced housing system on the market should have such a tedious crafting process.
    Daisey@Oasis wrote:
    I guess SOE shouldn't be surprised but it's sad that the game has been reduced to this for some people. If that's all the game was for me, I'd look for a more engaging game.
  8. ARCHIVED-Katz Guest

    feldon30 wrote:
    I think we can agree that leveling crafting isn't completely boring. The wide variety of quests has enhanced that part of it. I, in fact, level as much as I can from quests and very much enjoy the crafting quests.
    However, the process of crafting an item is very tedious. If you are only making a few items, say a set of armor, it is fine. If you are doing writs to level or crafting bulk items such as food, arrows, totems, throwing weapons, etc.- then it is tedious and can be even painful (anyone else have button pushing pains in their hand after a long crafting session? I can get the same from a long harvesting session though.)
    I don't, however, like the ideas of making it more complicated. UNLESS, the bulk items are changed to be a massive number made per combine.
    Those worried about the economy would not like that as more quantity per combine equals more people actually crafting the items and then prices go down. But can you imagine crafting arrows becoming interesting? Wow, how interesting would it be to take so much longer to make arrows?
    I'm not saying that I wouldn't like it to be less tedious. I am saying that we need to come up with ideas that are viable for all items that are crafted.
  9. ARCHIVED-Canthinkofaname Guest

    I guess I could find a way to make kill 5 mob a, kill 3 mob b, kill 7 mob c, etc more engaging but the merc is simply faster. When I do dungeons sometimes I gotta heal him, does that count as engaging? :) Problem is that I run out of vitality so fast in dungeons that I can only do'em about once per week.
    Oddly enough I don't find merc attack killing all that boring. It's actually kind of funny to watch him mow down dozens of yellow critters in 10 minutes. I don't wanna quit. I'm havin fun.
  10. ARCHIVED-Rijacki Guest

    If the 'reward' for pushing the buttons in the 'right' sequences was "better" than it is now, it wouldn't be as pointless to some and, I am btter the 'pointlessness' of it is a big portion of why they find it boring. It's not the process that is any more or any less boring button pushing than adventuring, it's that there isn't any value in that button pushing.
    Crafted goods in Norrath, with a few exceptions, have become nothing more than a joke.
    At launch there was a reason to want rares to get gear so you could go do harder content. Heck, at launch, even handcrafted gear was used to help you get the drops to replace it. Crafted goods, mostly, had a place in the game and a use for the characters in it.
    Then the first expansion came and there was an outrage over "digging in the dirt" giving better armor than the hardest content in the original content (and, in my opinion, no "mastercrafted" shouldn't have given better gear than the hardest raids of the previous levels). The backlash on it resulted in an overcompensation the to the other extreme. Crafted goods took massive nerfs. After the crafting re-do near the launch of KoS, even the most common treasured drop was better than most mastercrafted (and was when the designations of Mastercrafted and Handcrafted were added and was also when all qualities other than pristine were stripped from the system). Handcrafted, other than house items, was permanently relegated to NPC merchant fodder. (Writs were also removed and didn't return until EoF.)
    Now, each time there is a significant change in the way stats work or the quality of the current drops, there is a long lull before any crafted items 'catch up' and are adjusted to fit the new scheme, at least partially (MC still has issues from the last re-itemisation).
    The apprentice researched recipes might have made that worse, not better. Adventurers don't have a massive time sink before they can enter each instance/dungeon the first time, but crafters do. It's an attempt, yes, to stretch out the extremely limited content given to crafters, but that doesn't make it any less than a time sink. Recipes aren't Master abilities, but that's what the researching via apprentice mimics.
    As for crafting/comat being similar in their button pushing:
    Strip away the scripts and other things which add variety to the visuals of combat and it -is- just pushing buttons in the right sequence, you might change the sequence from time to time in response to events (same with crafting) but it's still pushing the same, or nearly the same, buttons over and over, whether 3, 6, or a dozen. Those who are better at it know a better sequence to push. But, yes, it's not the button pushing which makes combat interesting or not, it's the other things. The scripts which require doing things in some sort of response, moving, pushing specific buttons, stop pushing buttons, etc.
    Yes, crafting is missing the scripts and other such. Domino's attempts to put them in (with the crafting instances and then with the shawl final combine) were met howls of protest. But new things to the crafting experience were added in.
    I don't think anyone is arguing that there isn't the same depth of variety in the crafting experience (encompassing all you can do crafting, from leveling, to making recipes) that there is in the adventuring experience. But the specific process for both is pushing buttons at it's absolute most basic level. Focusing just on the pushing buttons in the one (Crafting) misses out on why the other is seen as 'better' by most. Ignoring all the other available aspects of the crafting experience doesn't give credit, either, to how it has been improved.
  11. ARCHIVED-SOE-MOD-02 Guest

    This post has moved: /eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=499962&post_id=5727721 Let's keep the posts constructive please
  12. ARCHIVED-Maroger Guest

    Wirewhisker@Antonia Bayle wrote:
    Well Domino did a lot of bad things for crafting too!! She took away the first time bonus which hurts a lot and forced dependency on writs -- which suck at lower levels. Writs for some classes force you to spend too much time crafint green recipes where you could avoid that with the first time bonus.
    We need to bring back the first time bonus - it really hurt losing that.
  13. ARCHIVED-Mermut Guest

    Maroger wrote:
    Except for sages, it's faster, now, to level with rush orders then it was doing all recipes 'for the first time'. Add in the tradeskill questlines, and leveling a crafter is signigicantly faster then it was when the 'first time bonus' was in effect. I was a huge skeptic about the change before it went live, but I'm a firm supporter of it now, after seeing it in action.
  14. ARCHIVED-Deveryn Guest

    Mermut wrote:
    It's definitely a drag raising any scholar on writs, but everyone else benefited greatly from the change. The biggest boost was to provis, who don't even have advanced recipes. Now, it's only 4 or 5 writs for a level (assuming you at least have some vitality), so that's 24 to 30 items. I don't know how anyone can call that a bad thing.
  15. ARCHIVED-christinee Guest

    I actually love the change that removed the first time bonus.
    I leveled a sage, carpenter, weaponsmith and achelmist from 50 to 90 in a few weeks doing nothing but rush orders. All characters had full vitality that would last about ten levels. It was so much easier and faster now than when I leveled my provie from 0 to 80 before they removed the first time/pristine bonus. That period was boring and painful. Although, the carpenter and sage did level up pretty quickly then due to the variety of recipes.
  16. ARCHIVED-Meirril Guest

    Rijacki wrote:
    There are recipes that are in high demand. Making those recipes doesn't seem any less painful than making any other recipe, it is just you have more incentive to do some work and make those items. You certainly arn't playing, your working. Your crafting items only because you want the end result.
    Sometimes as an adventurer, you just enter an area below your level and waste everything in site. Why? Just to cut loose and have some fun. Enjoy the sheer mindless destruction and watch things explode. Everybody does it at least once after they reach max level. Some people make it into a nightly habit.
    When is the last time you started crafting "just for fun"? Decided to run an instance or do a writ "because your bored"? Maybe you started crafting because "I can't sleep". I certainly understand if you use its inate properties as a way to lull yourself to unconciousness.
    There is a free to play game out there called Puzzle Pirates. They have a crafting system. Take a day and go try it. If the process of crafting was actually fun, who cares if it takes longer to make items? The items are just a side effect of playing a fun game, there will be people that create stuff just because they want to play the game. Kinda like adventuring there are people who don't care about gear as much as they care about doing something for fun. Wouldn't that be nice?
  17. ARCHIVED-Tigress Guest

    yes, it is boring. others here will say its relaxing. they arent going to change it, thats how it is. you dont craft for excitement. it used to be that having level 90 crafters was great so you could make your army of alts gear as you leveled. now, not so much. (some ppl leveled crafters to make a boat load of plat from crafting but i never did, even when i tried to make a lot of plat.) the advantage to having a 90 crafter now is the flying mount for low level character. that's awesome!! for a guild, leveling the crafter with writs will help level the guild.
  18. ARCHIVED-Calthine Guest

    LOL, no one's made boatloads of plat from crafting since the GU13 Crafted Legendary nerf, well before your time :)
  19. ARCHIVED-Tigress Guest

    thats bc she gated us with that 40K faction, which *MUST* be a daily grind. doing that once was enough for me. i may do it a 2nd time on my son's acct but that's it for me. if it had been follow this questline, plus a day or two of a "daily" and you have enough faction to complete the shawl quest, all 14 of my crafters would have finished it. as it sits now, only one has and i expect it to stay that way.

    i realize that there's some who say "oh but its how you EARN it so i like it that way". i can appreciate and agree with that for the first time but on your alts, NO WAY. token of loyalty, dragon tablet, anyone?
  20. ARCHIVED-Tigress Guest

    Calthine wrote:
    well IDK thats what ppl would type on the crafting forums last year (or was it the year before). i even asked them to share how and would get replies about it being a secret.

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