The death of the paladin...

Discussion in 'Fighters' started by Twofeets, Apr 11, 2021.

  1. Twofeets Active Member

    My paladin was born in 2005, he's been through hard times and found a way to survive, but now...

    Paladins were supposed to be survival tanks with strong aggro and the expense of the DPS many other tanks can do. Now I find myself in a situation where I routinely get 1 shotted with few stoneskins to protect myself. To make it worse, it seems zerks and monks can pull aggro off me at will. Amends (especially level 49 amends) no longer cuts it. Tonight, with swash and coercer hate, with amends on a swash who was in the top 3-5 on the parse, the zerk kept 'accidently' pulling aggro. Meanwhile, I still find myself eating the floor when my stoneskins go down.

    Thanks for the DPS, but that's not what we needed. Thanks for the heals, but we cant heal when we're dead...

    Sorry for venting, but there is simply no place for a paladin from the end of the old Vex raid onwards unless the raid is just feeling charitable. For the first time, it's honestly hard to justify my spot in a raid...
  2. Smashey Active Member

    Bro I feel your pain. A lot of classes needs sorting and have been needing it for some time. We should all unite and get these things sorted!
  3. Twofeets Active Member

    Thanks Smash, but this comes AFTER the supposed fix to paladins. Instead of improved survival and aggro we got a bit of DPS and heals. I could already fully heal my group with 1 spell, and while the DPS is nice, it doesnt compete with the aggro generated by other tanks. Right now on Discord we are talking about Zerks Insolence vs Paladins Holy Ground. Theirs last for 34 seconds and gives like 6 hate positions (with AAs). Ours was nerfed to 13 seconds and 1 hate position. Everyone assumes all we need is Amends, but a level 49 Amends giving 63% hate, and 'group only' simply doesnt compare to what some other tanks can do. (and again, this doesnt take survival into account, 40% reductions dont help when autoattacks are hitting for 1B+).
    Virtuosity and Jalathan like this.
  4. Jalathan Member


    I can completely relate... While I'm no where near as good on stats as you are, I'm currently taking a break from the game because honestly, I don't know if I can justify the spot in our raid force anymore and I'm taking a few weeks to assess that, I really, really wanted to give my all to make the pally work and all I got out of it was feeling like a third rate tank who had to work 3 times as hard to maintain that 3rd rate status... While Jal was born in 2006, I'd had a paladin since 2004.

    Just not sure fighting it is worth the stress anymore
  5. Luck Member

    Also born 3.6.2005... :(
  6. Bhayar Well-Known Member

    I'm not being snarky, and while I agree with your assessment, I haven't seen a lot of evidence that anyone at DPG actually plays the classes enough to actually know what would be required to make effective, current game class mechanic changes. They only know two ways to do things. Either the class is completely overpowered or they nerf the hell out of it, rendering the class fairly unplayable. It's a swinging pendulum year and year after year.
    Jalathan and Schmetterling like this.
  7. Schmetterling Well-Known Member

    let tanks be tanks and healers be healers , a paladin is something in between , but just because they can help healing and razing does not change their first and most important job , and that's being a meat shield in a shiny armor , who calls aggressors to himself to protect others .
    the only difference between him and a SK should be his healing ability and maybe somewhat less dps , but holding agro should be about the same .
    What I have learned about this game is that leather and chain wearing Fighters were never meant to be main tanks

    There is one thing I am wondering about , is it possible that the devs are now listening TO MUCH to what we all have to say
    it could be to many players asked for more DPS for paladins not knowing what that class is all about , and they got what they asked for .
    Breanna likes this.
  8. Straos New Member

    If you read through the Paladin thread from the beta forums you will find that many things other than dps were discussed. Yes dps has been mentioned, but context is important. Increasing dps of the paladins as a means to generate more aggro was the message. I have stated before that paladins should not be dps monsters, as the SK fills that role for the crusaders. Ingerimm, a paladin on Thurgadin, has put alot of thought and effort into pointing out issues. Very little of what he highlighted was addressed. Of course different paladins will have different experiences depending on their raid composition.
    Virtuosity and Jalathan like this.
  9. Gonridor New Member

    Well my paladin has gone back in the box and will be used to craft only for the foreseeable future, I was hoping the latest round of changes they were making would make a difference but I honestly cannot see any major improvements to a broken class.
    I agree with everything Twofeet has posted in his original message and the imbalance on aggro specifically has not been addressed or even come close.
  10. Straos New Member

    Im not sure what can be done to help with paladin aggro. The aggro generation is centred around Amends and Sigil. Maybe having Amends changed so it can be applied to anyone in the raid would be more useful (can apply it to a naughty monk), or have Sigil changed to group/raid. I have no idea if this would be OP or not though. Would also like to see something that allows us to deal with large hits better. Monks have bob and weave and tsunami, which are amazing. Guards have dragoons, massive mitigation and damage reduction.
    The large heal increases we got are nice, but currently dont do anything as they were more than enough before the update and are now so big, no one really has the HP pool at the moment to see the increase.
  11. Smashey Active Member

    Bruisers and paladins is in dire need of tweaks that isn't just bumping fervor of abilities. I personally am more invested in Bruisers but it seems like the players of these two classes are just ignored.
    Schmetterling and Obano like this.
  12. Jalathan Member

    all I can say is it is depressing how little they seem to understand or care to fix the class
  13. Virtuosity Member

    it is clear that Ingerimm spent hours and hours testing and subsequently posting results, which were supported and lauded by all - except the Devs who sadly seemed to have ignored him :(

    As has been mentioned many times in various threads, for Pally's maintaining aggro is far more of a chore than it should be as is trying to survive attacks that other tanks just breeze through. We are so overdue a boost to aggro it is simply ridiculous that it hasn't been done yet.
  14. Schmetterling Well-Known Member

    yes I have seen our poor Paladin in our raid force trying to keep in control , even on Kaladim . :(
    I think he made a Guardian .
    Breanna likes this.
  15. Jalathan Member

    Yah, I think it was around TSO that I started having issues with Agro and survivablity in general... or rather, it was just much easier for other tanks to do so than it was for the paladin and the paladin didn't offer enough to be a 3rd rate tank...

    and I speak from experience, I've tanked in raids on a guard, pally and a zerker... the other two just have a way easier life in what their role is.
    Schmetterling likes this.
  16. Twofeets Active Member

    Hate to say it, but glad I'm not the only one. Ive had several in Discord and in game tell me that it was just me complaining, but having played a monk and an SK, I can honestly say both held aggro better in CD and the monk was easier to keep alive. I ended up shelving both, however, hoping that if I concentrated enough on my pally I could find a way to make it work.

    Poor planning on my part, and I have no desire to build back up my other tanks...
  17. Smashey Active Member

    The brutal truth I have come to is that they simply don't care because the remaining players will never quit the game, despite being extremely unhappy.

    So I decided to quit the game as everything that has been reported and suggested has been ignored for years. It sucks because I want to enjoy the game and I want to play the class I want to play, not the FoTY class.
  18. Jalathan Member

    I understand bud...

    I think for me, I may just not be cut out for the progression raiding scene. At least as it is today. :(
  19. Drakuz New Member

    its true this game sucks man. i closed my guild. and moved. i game hopped shortly and then i learned of an old game that is in a state of revival.
    DAoC is slowly making a comeback.
    here i struggled to keep a group of 6 players in a group.
    on daoc. im building group 3 (max 8 per group) and thats for online active at that moment.
    in a span of 2 weeks rebuilding my old guild Daieone Sith.
  20. Drakuz New Member

    the struggle is dev's versus players wallet here.
    how about this?
    no more money, i win.
    Twofeets likes this.

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