Tanking Zerkers + AA line opinions !!

Discussion in 'Berserker' started by ARCHIVED-katshimoto, Mar 21, 2006.

  1. ARCHIVED-uux Guest

    It sure does effect them. Crush, slash, and pierce skills effect your ability to land a hit. It's also why the Resistability is relative. 30% harder. Harder than what? We're not given the base.
  2. ARCHIVED--Aonein- Guest

    Crush Slash and Pierce skills only effect your ability to use those weapons indicated and land hits with auto attack damage, nothing else.
    30% harder to be resisted then 10% easier to be resisted from Base, but Base determines what CA we are talking about here, as Apprentice I of some spells, being base of course, can be anywhere from 10% easier to 2% easier, depending on what CA we are talking about here. If it worked the way you are saying, we would never land a hit on anything above White con while in Defense stance because of the hit we take which is like 5-6 levels worth. You tired hitting a orange con mob in Offensive stance? Notice how much you miss it even though you are potentially 5-6 lvls higher when it comes to chances to hit? Notice how many resists you get compaired to misses when using CA's on orange con mobs?
    As for the way the last line in INT works that reuses reuse timers, yeah you are correct, i over looked that part about recovery timers and i must say im dissapointed in realizing it, very very dissapointed, what the hell is 30% faster recovery timers going to do exactally? I mean honestly, when does a recovery timer acually come into play? We got recast timers which are triggered upon use and we have reuse timers that are half the recast timer upon resists, then we have the acual casting timer off the ability itself, so when exactally does this 0.5 recovery timer acually come into play, cause i honestly have never seen a 0.5 recovery from ANY CA i have used ever.
    Personally, i like to think this is somewhat a bug, because i really dont see how 30% to recovery which i doubt anyone even know what part it plays in casting timers or casting effects, is going to help anything. As for a 6% in recast timers, lol thats just as bad as our WIS line final ability, useless.
    Oh well, at this point, DPS and Mitigation, here i come.
  3. ARCHIVED-uux Guest

    That's just it. I land hits a LOT more in offensive stance against orange con'd mobs than in no or defensive stance. It doesn't appear to just be autoattack. I'll even go farther to say I have a hard time hitting yellow con'd mobs with something like Demolish or Bloodbath in my defensive stance, where as in offensive stance against the same mobs it'll land quite reliably. I'm also not stating this is the only factor in determining if you hit or miss. There are other factors. However, I'm pretty certain it is playing a part. Has anyone else noticed this?
    I also realize the Resistablity is relative to a different quality of the skill. I'm trying to point out that the base value it is compared to is hidden to us. So take App I as a base. 2% to 10% easier. Again, easier than what? It's a hidden game mechanic. Even though we know a skill is 20% harder to resist, we still can't predict a hit or miss ratio from that value alone. I'm sure Resistability is playing a part in the equation, but from what I've observed, it is not the only deciding factor. Yeah, an adept 3 should be more effective at hitting the mob than an app 4. No argument there.

    I'm really not impressed with many of these abilities. Maybe the 30% to recovery and 6% to recast on Relentless Assault is a bug in the description and the values are really swapped. I don't see any value in the faster recovery timer for us at all. Perhaps that is why they were so generous with giving us 30%. :smileyvery-happy:
  4. ARCHIVED-Laereneth Guest

    For those that are curious, as was I, about the difference between the defensive AA in Agi line and the parry AA in Int line, I've done the math.
    1 point of Agi = +0.04 to base on avoidance
    1 point of defense = +0.28 base on avoidance
    1 point of parry = +0.30 parry on avoidance
    So, if you hypothetically go 4/4/4/8 on Agi line, you receive +0.96 avoidance from the Agi increase and +2.28 avoidance from the defensive skill for a total of +3.20 to avoidance.
    If you went 4/4/4/8 on Int line, you receive +2.40 to avoidance.
    So, for defensive purposes, it seems Agi yields a greater net bonus. I'm not sure how much difference there is between the DPS from Cyclone in Agi line and the haste from Int line.
    Also, can anyone tell me if the Cyclone will hit mezzed mobs when it goes off?
  5. ARCHIVED-katshimoto Guest

    Cmon guys, what about STR line.... if you lose agro, the raid will go down and so will u... 10% hate is alot
  6. ARCHIVED-uux Guest

    Given the example situation of a raid, a main tank tends to have classes not only buffing their hate significantly higher, but also have other players reducing the hate of the DPS classes. It is also a double edged sword. If you find you sometimes that you are not one of the main tanks on a raid and part of the DPS or buff bots, you have to hold back slightly more to prevent pulling aggro.
  7. ARCHIVED-KhayosAD Guest

    my role in raids used to be to buff the DPS group and go all out from there; now I find myself in more of an OT role. Therefore, I've revised where I'm going a bit.
    I've decided to get the top skills in both INT and AGI. The slight speed increase to recasting in the INT line proves useful over the duration of a fight and when I need to spam taunts. As for AGI (haven't gotten yet) might help give the healers time to adjust to me if the MT goes down.
  8. ARCHIVED-Laereneth Guest

    I, personally, have not had any agro issues, in groups or on raids. But if you find that being a problem for you, then yes, it is a viable choice.
  9. ARCHIVED-Epyx Guest

    aggro should never be a problem in raids, even without the right classes you have other classes to make up for it, for MT/OT a dirge or coercer will set you right, if your really desperate or if your in OT group then even a swash or assasin is a viable option, add to that a troub or 2 and a pally or 2 to sipon hate, then aggro on raids is not a problem, mem blur's can be easily handled with timing and MT/OT options.
  10. ARCHIVED-FightGame Guest

    When tanking, I don't have much of a problem holding aggro either. My 2 regular taunts are adept 3. My "always on" self buff, that procs hate, is in master. My other CA that does damage, and taunts, is in adept 3 (or master..can't remember). If I happen to lose aggro, which isn't often, that's what rescue master is for. Also have Insolent Gibe in adept 3, and cast that about 1/2 way through every big encounter (then tell the raid/group to go crazy!). I'm using HO's that end in a taunt constantly.
    Key is to get your taunt spells in adept 3 or better, and play with people who know how to control their anger. Communication with your raid/group is key. If they hold off on the max damage until you have some good hate built up, you'll be fine. If you have this, then spending all the points in strength line isn't necessary (if at all). I think rather than spending 8+ points to get 10% more hate, if you were to spend this amount of points on anything to do more damage, you could generate just as much hate (and kill faster too).
    But don't do this because this is what works for others. That's the whole point of these points...to be able to spend them where YOU want/need them. Do what would better you character.
  11. ARCHIVED-Tasi3989 Guest

    Wisdom final ability useless?
  12. ARCHIVED-Epyx Guest

    i see no point in 5th wis rank for tanking, the 16pts of crush/s/p you loose won't help you tank any better, true, you'd hit more to do a bit more dps and a little bit more aggro, but in a raid situation that isn't going to matter, a % hate xfer will matter more. And in group situation the lose isn't great, since it'll effect hate over time and since group mobs die fast, that isn't a factor really.
  13. ARCHIVED-PlasticLSD Guest

    I wonder why I havent seen anyone mention taking the first in the WIS line to 8. With all this talk of raid tanking its funny how much you all seem to overlook the resist bouns of +7 WIS per point spent.
  14. ARCHIVED-Ardsheal Guest

    Message Edited by Ardsheal on 04-14-2006 03:15 AM
  15. ARCHIVED-Araghone Guest

    at first i'm from germany, so please don't kill me for my typos and grammer^^

    second; thank you for the good discussions about zerkers AA choices

    for me, playing as a tank in a small guild, i prefered a balanced AA-build based on effectiveness of the powerfull passive AA's. i tank in guild groups, pick-up-groups and alliance-raids. guild mates know my tanking style and i know her skills so i do not mention anything jumping in a group of heroic yellow-conned mobs 'cause i know the guild mates do their job so as i do. in pick-up-groups at first i check up the potential of the healer^^ an the power of the dd's. in alliance raids i start up carefully the setup for the MT group getting mostly buffers that cap my stats and resis.

    so for all the three cases above, for me the following build is that one who did the best job for now

    1
    STR AGI STA WIS INT SUM
    4 0 0 4 4 (13)
    4 0 0 4 4 (25)
    4 0 0 4 4 (37)
    5 0 0 5 4 (50)
    0 0 0 0 0 (50)

    i do not want discuss the motivation why dropping completely the AGI & STA lines, but looking alt the last two points spend i get all i want, faster recovery timer and the remove of stance penalties and it works nice for me as an intermediate zerker.

    at least i thing, SOE will bring an extension of the AA-tree in further upcoming Add-Ons, so don't worry about wrong builds or false templates, EQ2 is not WoW and it makes quite a diffrence what kind of player is sitting in front of the screen^^
    Message Edited by Araghone on 04-18-2006 03:45 AM
  16. ARCHIVED-FightGame Guest

    Ok, I won't knock ya for your grammer or typos. But your math is wrong.
    Looks to me like you've spent 51 points, which is not possible.
    And you say you're getting everything you want with fast recovery timers and removal of stances, but according to what you have shown, you have zero points in those 2 places (final ability in wisdom and intelligence), and you'd need 16 more points to do that.

    So, to do everything you have shown with the numbers, in addition to getting those abilities you want, you'd need 67 points. We only get 50.

    I'm confused.
  17. ARCHIVED-Araghone Guest

    I'm confused too :smileysurprised:

    not only i've realy spent 51 points in the suggestet table, i have also ignored the fact that for enable the fifth-row leave i need 8 points, so shame on me an forget about my post...
    no i must respec^^
  18. ARCHIVED-shealee Guest

    I played with the AA points for my zerker for a while and spent some money to respec. For me, I am 95% tank(raid/group) and 5% dps. This is the way I figured would be most beneficial to what I was after.
    AGI - 5/4/4/8/0
    STA - 8/0/0/0/0
    WIS - 4/4/4/8/0
    Sangre
    5th Level 70 Zerker on Befallen
    Message Edited by shealee on 04-20-2006 11:29 AM
  19. ARCHIVED-Terrifyer Guest

    I've already gone down the WIS path (I'm mostly used at a group tank, which is, if I'm being honest, where I excel - I hate being raid MT, too much pressure IMHO ;)) and in that role it is great, I can tank in offensive in any zone in the game bar HOF, where thanks to that evil debuff, I need every scrap of mitigation going. I can see why raid MT's might go for a slightly different build but I'm in a position where I will be backup tank if anything, so yeah WIS = win

    I am gonna go down STR next, just for the increased crit chances, gonna max out hate gain, hadn't really had any thoughts about what to do with the rest of the points, might go for raw stamina, might go for raw agility, might go for extra mitigation along the wis line....

    Have to say the only aggro issues I get are with Brigands (FFS! How much hate can you generate from one debuffing CA?) and when wizzies get over enthusiastic with Fusion and don't give me a heads up, but you can never have too much hate :)
  20. ARCHIVED-Artalis the Elder Guest

    Remember that Int affects proc damage and boy do we proc a lot. I found that most of my haste was wasted in the Int line as I ended up over the 100% attack speed cap too often.

    That being said I respec'ed to the wisdom line and have been very happy with the results. In the wis line nothing is usually wasted. I may even go back and max out the Wis stat bonus.

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