Tank Threat Not Scaling With Fervor

Discussion in 'Fighters' started by Ezoo, Mar 10, 2017.

  1. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    Nah real problem is that druids fell out of grace and stopped been "healer" class migrated more toward T3-T4 DPSers :)
  2. Ansom Active Member

    Dev have already reply in the last “Ask Me Anything” and discord.

    Fervor is to power for Threat, case closed.

    Well, ok, but my taunt hit 200milion median is.. to low.

    Tank threat is where should be, tank should don't have all agro responsibility, like in other expa (the change in ToV for example). Case closed.

    Ok.. not all responsability, but at least the 50%? 30%? Again big dps is like under the 5% tank responsability...


    So.. I just start to don't care about the agro, if player die, to bad. Is not tank fault, just blame dps or support class or the giant pink rabbit, sitting next to my desk.

    PuG will become very hard to do? to bad.. Which nasty dps the only way to keep agro is the combo with troub/coercer, Dirge/illy don't have spot, like assa/swash/warlock/warden/fury (and defiler again some named). Of course the combo work only with decent player, not with botbuff player able to do 20milion dps.


    This logic is not all bad, grp should be a team work, encourage collaboration is a very nice, but in old game like eq2, without a big player base, only few player able to do this job and several class don't able to contribute, is only encourage to abort PuG, no one wanna spent 3 hour for clean one expert. Atm the only effect is to ruin, loosen the already weak community.


    pls don't kill this game killing the community.
  3. Earar Well-Known Member


    they are just old fashioned healers :) ! I don't blame shamans, every healer wants all his teammates to stay alive.

    What I mean by shaman being part of the issue .. is that now DPS can too easily recover from mistakes they do.

    I discovered in expert that the kly does an AoE damage of 12 million. when u play with a shaman u don't even have to bother about this. When u play with a druid, u have to joust (it's really a close range AoE damage) or u die.
    shamans wards wipe all mistakes people could do. U don't know the strat ? no pb, take a shaman. u can't manage your threat, no pb, take a shaman. as people say, they can carry so well unorganised team, that shamans are the answer for everything right now and the huge group wards they get allows people to play all out and not bother for consequences.

    and DPS are like kids, they already have a hard time learning from mistakes, but if u protect them so much, they won't even care and repeat the same mistakes all over again coz it's fun :)


    but anyway as u said doomdrake, with enough DPS, a good shaman and enough HP .. u don't need a tank anymore. So why bother ? :)



    they already did it :)
    DoomDrake likes this.
  4. quisling Well-Known Member

    Not me...I'd let that dps die. In fact, if I could HELP him die I would.
    dirgenoobforreal and Earar like this.
  5. Fairin Active Member


    is this why you never heal me? >: (
  6. Legionair Member

    I know I'm commenting late on this topic but I have to speak my mind on this. Overall It's easy to understand what was discussed and I feel everyone has good points for the most part. I However am in favor that holding aggro on a tank is ridiculous at times without having some serious gear. I always felt the idea of non fighter hate transfer is kind of stupid. Why can't it be all tanks having their own 25-30% hate transfer so WE choose who to use it on and have at least Some aggro control flexibility. If you look at the paladin in particular, that class has always had its own hate transfer which allows flexibility of not needing a specific hate transfer group setup. That alone would fix many issues. I've personally seen a paladin in low potency gear, hold aggro with minimal issues just due to Amends thrown on the highest dps in a non ideal tank setup. To me it's bogus and unrealistic. Obviously this idea for all fighter classes wont be on the devs Table anytime soon. So with what we have I'd actually like it if they did either raise hate mod cap to 200-300%. Or allow fervor to apply to taunts as well. It would make a difference. Doing that you could RID yourself of any hate transfers requirement putting the job fully on the tank in realistic terms. I find it unfair to say "that's why you grab a hate transfer class." Riiight everyone but the paladin right? A long time ago Before the release of TSO expac in 2009-2010 they were going to rid hate transfers and overboost the taunts forcing all the responsibility on the tanks. That would have been a great idea than the BS it is now. I don't consider myself a crappy tank, I would actually say I'm a pretty descent player that knows tanking and done it since 2007. I just find that this expac didn't provide any solid options like TOV did with optional clickys to temp boost stats for aggro control. It worked great that way too. Guess we'll see what happens in the future.
    Malleria likes this.
  7. semisus Does not play this game

    I must say for new people starting as a tank this is a real issue unless they are paladins.
    Tank threat is something that needs to be adressed.
  8. Earar Well-Known Member

    because u need as good gear as your team to hold aggro.

    if your dps has 22k pot but u only have 12k pot ... what do u expect ???

    we have taunts, damage, hate procs, positional threat, AoE damage to extend our threat .. some have threat siphoning or they can force agro on mobs, some do more dps, some have more AoE while others better single target.

    I really have no issue on keeping aggro most of the time. but .. yeah if DPS classes burst but don't desaggro or are not carefull ... I can't help it. If I used all my tools to keep aggro but can't get it back and if they don't help me .. like bursting and running away instead of getting close to me so I can hit it ... what can I do ? But that issue always was there. and it's not agro management, it's player management.

    then as somebody said .. when u group try to get at least an agro transfert. Swash, assassin or coercer, or troub for desaggros.

    agro shouldn't be easy mode and shouldn't work all the time, or we would get bored
  9. Beee Well-Known Member

    Rising Tide pushes the DPS-player up to 60k pot.. ticking ascension spells use this for 30 seconds... Any average tank has no possibilty to hold aggro
    Malleria likes this.
  10. Earar Well-Known Member


    yes, and that's also the part where DPS have to be also really carefull with agro. threat meter ... make it usefull

    even with 60k pot ... a dead DPS doesn't do any
  11. Ansom Active Member

    If a dps with all buff up have 60k+ pot and 200+ fervor use big nuke (ascension), on pull without big agro transfer, is an idiot. :cool:


    The agro is a symphony. For tank we have taunt, positional, agro transfer, dps. Other class have negative taunt, negative positional, agro transfert..

    Taunt and negative taunt need to be revalued, the medium hit is to low compared to the dps spell/ca, positional only work with decent sustain agro/deagro, and agro transfert is the only "weapon" working atm.
  12. Kioske Well-Known Member


    Rising tide also pushes Tank-players up to 60k potency, that's how good tanks hold aggro during rising tide, they use one of their own.
  13. Ezoo Member

    The game is not swarming with players wanting to group these days and so it is
    unrealistic to expect to get an ideal group combination.

    It is also unrealistic to expect a tank to hold aggro by using a clicky that takes several
    seconds to cast and minutes to cool down. When DPS pulls aggro the tank needs a quick,
    effective way to respond -- Taunts need to work well enough.

    I like the cooperative concept, but the bulk of the responsibility for aggro should be with
    the tank, and the bulk of damage with the DPS classes.

    DPS classes should not have to spec block/mit equal to the tank to do their job, nor should
    a tank have to spec potency equal to the DPS class to do theirs. I think that hate modifiers
    are supposed to solve this, but don't seem to be enough against the new high DPS.
    Malleria likes this.
  14. Earar Well-Known Member

    well u usually cast rising tide at the begining of a fight. So if thanks have the charm, they can cast it too.

    Also the tank can use the time rising tide lowers people potency to start building up agro.

    the responsability needs to be shared ... because otherwise everything becomes too easy and DPS can become even more irresponsible :)

    honnestly .. it's what makes fights fun. that u need to be carefull about multiple factors.

    that's what I look for, that's why my main is an illu .. because I loved to mezz adds, be carefull about the environnment. If it's just clicking buttons and not worry about threat because the tank is the responsible. What's the fun ? I see when we run old dongeons for xp I press buttons and kil everything and it bores and tires me in the wrong way. While doing an expert zone I have to stay alert, and it's much better than to click dumblessly.

    agro management shouldn't be easymode. not for tanks not for dps. and if fervor would make tanking and holding agro easy ... then no.
  15. Ezoo Member

    Here you sort of compare a tank having effective tools to running an old dungeon that you have out-leveled and
    presents no challenge. Apples and oranges. Nothing in this thread is suggesting anything like what you are
    comparing.

    The fervor issue puts the tank taunts on a diverging slope from DPS.
    This divergence has nothing to do with cooperation.

    As fervor increases in the equation it does not help tank taunts, and although it does help his threat generation
    from his damage is helps it at the same rate that it helps other DPS classes. Therefore his taunts are becoming
    less and less effective. Fervor as a game mechanic should not be making tank taunts less effective - they should
    be growing in parallel with fervor.
  16. Ansom Active Member

    a curiosity. an other class (scout/mage/healer) can test if the negative taunt scaling with fervor?
  17. Malleria Well-Known Member

    The problem is they're now handing out fervor like crazy, and while every other archetype gets boosts across the board, tanks are lagging behind because it only affects some of our hate generation. Consider at the start of KA most people had only 8 fervor on their belts plus heartbound. Now it's not uncommon to see people running around with 50+ static fervor plus heartbound. Add in the fact everyone is about to get a huge fervor proc with the new orange adorn...

    Either they need to stop handing out fervor to maintain the status quo, or make it affect taunts so that tanks advance at the same pace that dps does.
  18. Fairin Active Member

    why is this thread still alive. already covered this earlier in the thread.

    tanks hold threat with dps, not taunts.

    a taunt that does not do damage is useless

    most taunts can be made to do actual damage with AA - that actual damage IS effected by fervor.

    "handing fervor out like crazy?"

    how many KA pieces of gear have fervor?.. kunark neck (5), ascendant tome(10), epic 2.0 (25) - maybe T4 drops?

    old tot items with fervor: belt(8/16), cloak adorn(5), 2 different helmets.(3/5)

    green adorns with fervor, 0.3 (et'kalish) 0.5 (RTT) 0.2 - heroic green adorn
  19. Ezoo Member

    I often see group fervor boosts happen in the +30 range, and there are also
    individual adorns and clickies - yea the impact of fervor is REAL.

    Tank aggro is usually lost to DPS spikes, or occasionally mem wipe.
    Taunts are MOSTLY for recovery when aggro is lost, and so they DO need to be effective.

    Some Troubs are said to tank with just high dps and self ward, but this is not likely
    the design that was intended - it just happens to work at this time.
  20. Fairin Active Member


    1, no denying fervor is king

    2. theres a vast difference between "taunts" and "positionals like rescue, ect - when people say taunts they mean things like http://u.eq2wire.com/item/index/4078828120

    3. ive been tanking as a troub for 5 years even in raids. - scouts have always been able to tank its just not normal and people despise anyone that goes against the grain so shunned and not done by many. it also helps to have a defiler in your pocket.