i already gave you guys the keys to the kingdom. its up to you if you wanna listen. also that sounds like my dream group. me + conj necro beastlord ranger and my mate(defiler) go rek all the experts super quick..
not gonna read all this **** but the mechanics on the numbers how fairin said it works is exactly right, although at the same time fervor should affect taunts if it doesnt. I dont have a tank to do testing to see whats broken so im just going by what people are saying
The tank threat issue seems to be getting worse. Perhaps due to fervor, or perhaps other issues in the design. A new heroic geared tank can hold aggro fairly well against a new heroic geared dps. But as both grow it seems to be getting worse. It seems that the threat from DPSers and tanks are on diverging slopes. Strong dps pushing 1-3 billion renders tank taunts almost useless. Either they do not work, or they only work so briefly that it is almost useless. Tank dps is typically not enough even with threat modifiers to stay in the threat lead against strong dps. Now, I don't claim to know the math - maybe on paper it looks like things should be OK, but in practice some adjustment is needed. A tank and dps should cooperate and work to keep things on the tank, but the tank also needs effective tools to do this.
I have a question ... How many accuracy & weapon skill should a Raid MT have? anyone knows? For good DPS to hold hate
I'd like to see fervor apply to taunts. It seems only reasonable. That said, I'm having no real issue with keeping aggro off of summoners and beastlords I'll happily let die if they pull aggro. Typically the top DPS is doing about twice what I do (except on AOE fights, where I can come close to matching). Hate mod and the odd positional threat do the rest.
tank's dps will always increase. with more potency and fervor. just like other classes dps always have to manage their hate. they usually don't. worse are bards and chanters. With new asc spells they can do way more damage than their class allows and they don't have as many tools to desaggro. but hate management is team work. It's not just burst, hope the tank can get back aggro and hope the shaman's wards will keep u alive.
The devs said several times during the AMA that they view threat management as a group activity, not just a tank activity. In their view, a tank should not be able to hold agro off everyone without some kind of participation by the group. Either get a hate transfer class in your group so everyone can go all out, or the DPS will have to decide what they want their balance to be between dying and damaging. If you are an exceptional tank, you might be able to handle all the agro yourself, but I don't think that is what the devs intend.
Without hate transfer, the majority of tanks will struggle to hold aggro off a high dps class. People keep mentioning teamwork and setups...in an ideal world we all get that. If you have played this game for any substantial amount of time, you will know that isnt always the case, particularly in heroic groups let alone in raid environments. Fervor should be applicable to taunts or the base amount needs an increase(similar to ToV, although they did overdo it and rolled it back slightly - some taunts went from 200k threat to 5m+ per cast, then down to 1m per cast). Tank dps abilities need some love also, they probably should have gotten more than 15% boost at start of ToT. Here is hoping the upcoming class tweaks review these .
Build better groups, get better aggro. Anyone arguing against that by saying "that doesn't always happen" then stop running groups without building better groups. When you have 4 people already, Tank, Healer, 2 DPS, stop accepting more DPS, start inviting utility classes. If you just say "Screw it" and invite 2 more DPS classes and then complain about aggro, that's on you, not the devs of this game. They built this game around utility classes being useful. Tank aggro is right about where it should be; not a face roll, but also not super difficult.
dumbfire pets spread out across the encounter (as they are encounter linked) which aggros them. hitting them. breaking them free. in heroic it wouldn't matter i practically one shot the toxic.. expert i would break peoples ankles for casting them.
Id be inclined to say alot more tank disagree than agree with your opinion. Must be nice to have a deaggro proc on epic and xfer, something alot of dps classes dont have luxury of having Just remove fervor, adjusted tithe and this would go a long way to solve tank scaling issues.It may even require some skill in place of grinded potency/cb levels!.
Removing fervor at this point in the game would be a bad idea. Dps checks would have to be adjusted on everything current.
Agree should be done same thing as it was done with CB - hard cap that easy to hit with normal equipment set
As tanks acquire equal gear to what t1 have then aggro will start balancing out. This always happens every expac. Dps out gear their tanks so it's more challenging for the tank to hold agro. Once geared equal to the dps you tank for it'll get easier
yeah shouldn't expect a 10k pot tank to hold agro from a 20k pot necro anyway with enough dps u don't even need a tank. yesterday did a PuG .. I helped them coz their tank left. Arrived, didn't have time to know what happened, the necro was pulling mobs and named, was targetting his own mobs and the mystic was keeping him alive. as I said in discord. to me the issue comes in 2 ways (not fervor) but DPS who can't control their hate and shamans who ward dps so they don't die. So since dps grab aggro without dying, they keep on doing that. and if you want to have fun with the "whoever got agro is the tank" .. do it with friends, not in a PuG. Everybody should have fun, not just u. And a tank who gets his agro stolen every 2 seconds doesn't really have fun.
