I played a tank from launch, specifically a paladin. I have done everything from raiding to PVP. I love the class. I love being a tank. I recently returned from a 5 year break and I am getting caught up on the evolution and the game changes. I have been back for a month or so and noticed there seems to be a shortage of tanks. Yesterday I saw a newer player try to play a tank and after a frustrating loss in a heroic zone, he was apologizing to his group for letting them down. I tried to offer advice, but he seemed resolved to play a different class. I was thinking about how challenging it is to play right now and how lucky I am to not try to be learning to play one today. I believe being a tank attracts a specific personality type, and others shy away from it, so it limits the pool of players wanting the responsibility initially. First thing that stands out is Bulwark. Personally I like the idea of the stalwart paladin, shield held high, facing the dragons rage protecting his companions. But the mechanic doesn't seem to work all the time. In addition it creates a single point of failure in the group, and squarely singles out the person responsible. While some thick skinned people can roll with that and drive on, other do not do so well being singled out when one missed click, or especially if it was lag related, has the rest of the group glaring at them while they recover from revive sickness. I am not asking to water down the class, but the heroic content is all heavily scripted, almost raid like content. Perhaps consider adding some old fashioned contested dungeons like Stormhold in the new content, so new tanks can learn and refine their tanking skills. Just some suggestions from a guy who loves the game and wants to see it continue to thrive.
Tanking is much harder in VoV than it has been in previous xpacs. You really do need to learn your trade for T2 heroics. If you're not someone who knows how to squeeze the most survivability possible from their class, you will struggle. Don't go trying to be lazy and expect your healers to just keep you alive no matter what. If you don't do your bit, you will die, no matter how good your healers are. I don't think it's really a bad thing. Frustrating for now as there's a learning curve that most people have been able to ignore in previous xpacs. You do need to know what you're doing now though, and it's showing. Bulwark works by the way. It's fiddly if you're spamming CA's and recovery time is doing it's annoying thing. But if you make sure it sticks, it's simple.
Tanking is NOT harder this year than it was last expansion. VoV Heroic II is no where near as hard as Brawl was at RoS launch or Challenge heroic from BoL when all the trash and adds had co-op. What is hard about VoV heroic content is a lot the script responsibility has been shifted to other classes such as mages having to do cures and dispells. Everyone having to do synergy and heroic opportunities. From the tank perspective it is not that bad. Bulwark still breaks though. I have seen it go on cool down and still kill the group.
If you were the kind of tank who has always cycled his defensive temporaries to maximise survivability, like you're supposed to. Then no, it's not. If, like 90% of the population, you don't know how to do this, you will find T2 heroics very very hard indeed. That's kind the point.
The hardest part is that folks just expect the tank to control everything and there can be a lot of moving parts on some t2 fights. Its perfectly possible to handle it all as the tank, just some folks are going to struggle with agro, surviving, and calling it all. Tanks gon learn today....
So I have only been back a short time. What do the other tanks who have been playing a while think are some of the reasons for the tank shortage? Why are we in such high demand?
Firstly, bulwark/barrage can go and stab its self in the heart. I have hated this since the day it was introduced purely on the basis of people not needing a tank to do heroic content back in PoP if i recall right. It is a lazy mechanic just because devs cannot understand how to balance tanks and the content where tanks are needed for their overall ability to lead groups in the light of bloated stats and not just be a one trick pony. I have noticed it fail a couple of times in VoV when bulwark was up and group still got hit. This has nothing to do with tank skill except you just need to pay attention to when you click on it - nothing remotely challenging or fun about it except it adds to frustration. It is pretty much the same case as it was in RoS and BoL and what has been the norm for years. Tanks are essentially seen as plate dps needing all dps stats to perform their primary function as tanks and i.e. do dps to hold aggro. The content is not at all challenging in VoV, it was at the beginning when people were still gearing up and did not know the scripts and DEVs were/are still playing whack the pinata with combat mitigation and melee stats. Once you have geared sufficiently enough with reasonable level of stats on a tank that you know how to play, going in with a group that is built around dps and followings scripts on T2 heroics, then it becomes cumbersome really quick once you have run them a few times. That said, go in unprepared with a bad group and I would imagine you may have a struggle with a T1 end boss of a zone. The problem is not with the scripts, as a matter of fact they need to involve everyone in the group, specifically for T2 and beyond as it keeps things fresh and keeps you motivated to do the repetitive grind that you would need to do early on. The problems comes from tank balancing, stat control and overall content design that makes tanks bring uniqueness to each group setup and not heavily reliant on dps stats just to tank. The DEVs simply don't want to see it this way and that has been a recurring theme for years now.
The tank shortage is caused by the imbalance of classes in raid set ups. Most guilds only run 2 or 3 tanks but outside of raid times there aren't enough tanks to do heroic groups. If raid consists of x4 groups and there are only 2 or 3 tanks in the guild, then there are going to be a lot of people left out when it comes time to do heroics. The MT and OT will take their groups into heroics. Then the 3rd tank (if the guild has one) will pick up some of the rest. This will leave 6 or more people without a group who will then have to search for PuG tanks. There aren't too many PuG tanks who aren't reserved for other people's guild groups. This is where the tank shortage comes from. For the health of the game there really needs to be more of a reason for 3rd and 4th tanks to be used in raids that have viable roles outside of the MT / OT position. This way outside of raid times the x4 will be able to break in 4 workable heroic groups. It is ultimately a class balance issue. There is no reason to bring more than 2 defensive tanks to the raid. To justify bringing a 3rd or 4th tank to raid would require additional tanks to bring more to the table than just defense which means giving them a stronger offensive potential when not tanking. The role of a 3rd or 4th tank is not to actually tank any epics but to be DPS with extra responsibilities. Occasionally the 3rd tank would have to pick up a stray add or something but most of the time 3rd tank is just a (T2) DPS class. Then out side of the raid times the 3rd and 4th would tank heroics for everyone.
For me the biggest thing that causes me pause is that I've had absolutely no luck with PUG groups (whether I'm tanking or not) to the point where I just don't do them anymore (as a tank or not). It is exceedingly frustrating to take the hours it takes on AB to get a group only to find that you can't even kill the trash and the tank is the highest DPSer or second highest dpser in the group or that the tank can't hold agro or doesn't even know what Bulwark is. I understand that people need to learn classes and getting gear can be a pain, and I'm sure not every PUG is like that, just seems to be my luck...
In no particular order - things that a tank needs to be do Pull groups together Know all stats for all zones at all times Never miss Bulwark Figure out how to get a PUG through a zone when you know it will take a while and have the patience for that And be a particularly messed up in the head to have decided to a tank (Guardian) in EQ2 for 17 years or so
Yeah, the differences are stark. Zerk and Monk are just head and shoulders above the rest, and imo the monk is way ahead of the zerk in terms of making heroics incredibly easy to run. They just don't die. Ever. It's funny that the people I see right now calling for pickup groups and having pretty shabby gear, have a guild tag above their head which would suggest they'd be in the top 5%. The people who have the easiest time of it at the start of an expac are those whose guild has a mixture of raiders and casuals, and alliances with other guilds. That 4th group must be a pretty lonely place to be in the meta guilds, having to fend for yourself with pickups, frozen out of the static groups.
A lot of that depends on the guilds culture. Some guilds have done a pretty solid job of getting folks through content by switching groups around, etc. Those being left behind wont plan ahead or log in.
Nearly all top raid guilds want to run 4 tanks. There just aren't enough that play at a high level. Too many folks want to mindlessly press dps abilities...
I found that all the raiding and grouping too much, so i've enjoyed not raiding for a few months and doing limited groups. Having to have alt tanks to get round zone lockouts was also a pain.
Long time tank here. I won't deny there is a shortage of tanks, but it isn't as bad as most think. I just don't do pugs anymore and I haven't for a long time. I know a lot of tanks that are the same way. I only run with people I know or guildies. It isn't worth the headache. People tend to blame tanks when things aren't going how they think they should go. I just got tired of it. Also, tanking, and EQ2 classes in general, are a bit more complex here than in other mmo's. Once you find a group of people that know their class, its hard to risk pugging with folks that don't know their class. I don't have a lot of time so I need to be able to log on, knock stuff out, then log off. Its hard to find time with people that are moving a little slower. I know that might come across as elitest, and I don't mean it to be. I, and some others I know, just don't have the same amount of time we used to.
Please repeat this message often for the less than top raid guilds. Many raids want to cap tanks at 2 and fill the other spots with DPS that don't really do much DPS relative to the class potential. These "last in" DPS spots typically yield less DPS for the raid than a decent tank would provide both individually and factoring in buffs for the group/raid.
And PUGs were plentiful in CD, BOL and then dropped off a lot in RoS and in VoV now. The zones and their associated scripts are part of the reason. I tend to tank 4 to 5 weeklies with guildees. I will occasionally to a PUG with folks I know. But it gets old have to explain every fight to every PUG I do due the scripts.
Agree. Nothing against people that don't know fights. I truly just don't have the time I used to. I sometimes have to get in game and then out.... growing up sucks.
