T9 harvesting: Complaint

Discussion in 'Tradeskill Discussion' started by ARCHIVED-Summona, Sep 10, 2010.

  1. ARCHIVED-Summona Guest

    So im sure developers wanted Rare spells to be better so they made harder to get so the crafting community would see more business and more community involvment. That's all well and good. I decided to get a lot of harvesting gear (ss included) because i felt it would up my rare chances. I got all this gear. I got my Mining skill to 598(don't think i can get it any higher :S)
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    I find out that the harvesting skill is pretty much worthless. You get a better chance to be on the "Rare " loot table. or posted from Zam.

    • The "base" table might tell you that you have a 70% chance of getting 1 root, a 20% chance of getting 3 roots, an 8% chance of getting 5 roots, a 1% chance of getting an imbue, a 0.7% chance of getting a rare root, and a 0.3% chance of getting a rare root + 10 common ones.
    • The "bonus" table might tell you that you have a 60% chance of getting 1 root, a 25% chance of getting 3 roots, an 10% chance of getting 5 roots, a 0.5% chance of getting an imbue, a 0.8% chance of getting a rare root, and a 0.7% chance of getting a rare root + 10 common ones. (Yes, the numbers probably don't add up to 100%, I just invented them on the spot.)

    So im like... Does that mean i have a 0.8% chance having max harvesting skill in mining And a 0.7% chance of harvesting a rare and 10 nodes? Totaling 1.5% rare chance? hrm. Well if i dont get the bonus table does that mean i geta 0.7%+0.3% = 1.0% ??
    So by my understanding (could be wrong) i have a 1% to 1.5% chance of getting a rare either way.
    I went out harvesting today. I harvested 130 mining t9 nodes in the sundered fronteer. ( an infused deposit and a molten formation) harvesting 3 times from each node. or of course (130x3=390). Out of 390 nodes i did not get a single rare. Now im not complaining on the chances or w/e of how i should have technically gotten arould 4 rares at least by harvesting from 10:00 to 11:00 CST on September 11, 2010. But questioning the entire mechanic of harvesting, How harvest gear affects your chances and why sony expects players to buy rares off the broker from plat selling website toons and is therefore helping what they say they work so hard to prevent.
    There was some talk i heard that only "so many rares were allowed to be harvested each day. Which confused me. I dont think sony would turn that on and off with programing when it hit a certain limit attained.
    So there is a lot of confusion over the whole deal.
    So I'm lookin at broker. I wanna see how much these Rare things are going for ?? I find this. Tons of people having over 10 -20 on broker. Some even more. I remember seeing a person having 47 rares on broker one day. People have to be botting because its simply rediculous the chances on getting one of these things.

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    I dont really feel like posting Brellium ore. You get the picture. These people dont have every peice of harvesting gear. So why is their harvesting gear? This should be looked at if you want to make harvesting very viable and not just a tool for plat websites.
  2. ARCHIVED-kdmorse Guest

    So far, the devs have resisted posting any actual numbers, for whatever reason, they wish to keep those under their hats. So what we are left with is a general understanding of how the system works, with no numbers to fill in the blanks.
    • There is a base chance to get a rare.
    • Additional skill does nothing, until you reach the beginning of eligibility for the bonus table
    • Once eligable for the bonus table, more skill lands you on the bonus table more often
    • There are diminishing returns. There may be a cap, after which more skill does nothing
    • We have no idea how much the bonus table helps.
    Where does the bonus table start? How much skil is *enough*? And how much does it really help - no idea. Some people say it's not worth it - saying the difference is less than one percent. Fine, say the base chance is 1%. Say the bonus chance is 1.5%. Look at it one way, and indeed, the bonus only helps you by 0.5%. On the other hand, harvest for a while and pick up 10 rares. Well, with the bonus table maxed out, you'd have 15 rares instead. (Assuming the RNG was in a neutral mood). And regardless how big or small the difference, you'd really rather have more rares, so wear the gear....
    I wear my gear much of the time. I'm lazy, and don't wear my gear much of the time. I average one rare per 100 pulls on molten formations, after thousands and thousands of pulls. (I don't have good stats on any other type of rare) - so your luck seems to be a bit sub-par for your 390 pull run. (Do make sure you aren't doing anything that might trigger their anti-botting, anti-warping, or anti-afk-harvesting protections. Evidence suggests while you're in that bucket, you simply get no rares).
    Keep at it, maybe your luck will improve. Otherwise, we need to try to bribe Domino with baked goods to slip a few actual numbers our way so we have a better understaning of what effects what, and how much.
    (How about just the actual tables for some irrelevant tier. T4 for example. That would give us a sense of how the system works, without revealing the actual tables for current tiers).
    -Ken
  3. ARCHIVED-Meirril Guest

    Ok, you've got a peice of the discussion that Domino shared about two years ago quoted from Zam which was quoted from this forum. Unfortunately its out of context.
    Every tier the chance of you harvesting a rare goes down from the previous tier. Tier 9 rares are a much lower rate than 1%. Even on the bonus table it is less than a 1% chance to pull a rare. While your rate does improve, your talking about documenting thousands of harvests to start normalizing the difference rather than just logging the Random Number Generator (RNG). When I say thousands, I mean tens of thousands not just one thousand.
    What you will find very quickly is that the rate of common harvrests is effected significantly by hitting the bonus table in tier 9. Unfortunately your chance of hitting the bonus table is low even with max harvesting gear. To hit that table the RNG generates a number between 1 and your max harvesting skill. If that number is above the minimum required to harvest this tier you use the bonus table. So a bonus 100 plus the extra 50 from skilling up only puts you at about 20% bonus table. Unless a lot more harvesting gear becomes available your chances of hitting the bonus table in t10 will go down.
    And of course t10 the rares will become even more rare.
  4. ARCHIVED-Katz Guest

    Meirril wrote:
    If they add enough tiers, rares will be so rare they will be nonexistent.
  5. ARCHIVED-Kizee Guest

    RNG hates you. =P
    I still think there is a luck factor seed attached to characters. My templar has really good luck getting rares...so much so my friends hate how easy it is for her.
    I asked in guild one night if there was a way to turn off the rare sound because it was annoying me. I think I got something like 28 rares in t10 on an 4 hour harvesting binge I was on.
    The other night I was harvedsting for maybe 40 mins to an hour and got 9 rares in t10. This is not a rare thing either... it is pretty common for me to pull a lot of rares in a short time.
  6. ARCHIVED-Calthine Guest

    Here is the post and entire quote from Domino. Took some digging.
    http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=374729
    The discussion was harvesting table changes in GU37. To the best of my knowledge that's the last time they were changed. I'm quoting the entire post so the whole context is there.
    DominoDev wrote:
  7. ARCHIVED-Summona Guest

    So other rares from lower teirs in which the components are still used in tinkered items are also going for 10p per on the broker. They are also being sold by multiple people who are selling them 20-40 at a time. Like why make them a profit tool for bot programs.
  8. ARCHIVED-TaleraRis Guest

    Shimmer@Befallen wrote:
    Do you mean tier 1? There is no tier 10. And rare drops are crazy easy in tier 1.
  9. ARCHIVED-Kizee Guest

    Gwyneth@Najena wrote:
    Sorry meant t9. I was working off 3 hours sleep when i posted that. >.<
  10. ARCHIVED-Calthine Guest

    Traxor@Lucan DLere wrote:
    10p? Good gods, what server are you on?
  11. ARCHIVED-denmom Guest

    What many do is play the broker.
    They buy low, sell high. Which is why you see so many with high numbers of rares for stupid prices.
  12. ARCHIVED-Kizee Guest

    Lower tier rares tend to go for more money because nobody is havesting in that tier anymore so the prices tend to go up because of them being scarce.
  13. ARCHIVED-Nink Guest

    I think part of the problem with t9 harvesting is that all the spell scroll rares come from molten formations now; which results in players concentrating on those nodes.
    There was a rumour during the SF beta that spell scrolls could be made from any rare; alas it wasn't correct. I wish it could be implemented as it would balance out the harvesting. If you harvest for a long time and get rares that you cannot use (and yes I know you can sell them and buy the ones you want) it gets a bit frustrating.
    Yes I have seen a lot more harvesting bots as the nodes always pop in the same place; but the RNG clearly plays a massive factor. One of my characters has considerably more luck harvesting than all my other characters.
  14. ARCHIVED-Jrral Guest

    Calthine wrote:
    I don't know about Traxor, but on Unrest T2 rares can start at 1-2p and things just go up from there.
  15. ARCHIVED-Calthine Guest

  16. ARCHIVED-Ragnaphore Guest

    Calthine wrote:
    This !
    If broker's prices are too high for you, go out and harvest yourself. You'll get the rares you want for free and you'll make money with the ones you don't need (not even counting some "common" harvests whose stacks sell for PPs)
    Even in T9 "rares" aren't THAT rare if you try (AA for more pulls + enough harvest boost to trivialize T9.)
    Or go for EQ2EXtenzed where you can buy all the rares you want for $.
  17. ARCHIVED-Summona Guest

    So why isnt t9 rares using the same bonus table?
  18. ARCHIVED-Meirril Guest

    Traxor@Lucan DLere wrote:
    Because every tier has a slightly lower chance of producing rares than the previous tier. Essentially every tier has its own tables for both the normal and bonus tables.
    I don't think this really answers your question, but I feel the question is badly worded too.
  19. ARCHIVED-celestina936 Guest

    Shimmer@Befallen wrote:
    Supply and demand. Lower tier rares aren't scarce. All peeps need to do is spend 15 min harvesting T-1 or T-2 areas and you get plenty of rares if your character has a high level of harvest skill.
    With zillions of plat floating around, to many peeps a few plat to spend at the broker for an item is easier than harvesting. My low level 36 character already has garnered more than 20 plat. No, not by adventure rewards, but by selling very common collection items (not even the rare ones) on the broker at half of what others have the same item for sale.
    Tradeable quest rewards for gear which has never been upgraded also brings in good money for those who are transmuting. So if I get a T-1 through T-4 piece of armor I can't use, then I put it on the broker for half if nor more than half of the next highest offering.
    I think my biggest group of purchasers are re-sellers and transmuters rather than peeps who actually need the item for a character.
  20. ARCHIVED-Te'ana Guest

    Alvane@Unrest wrote:
    LOL Now I can't get rid of the image of giant dayglow colored marshmallow chickens running around harvesting in packs.