Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Sasquatch, May 1, 2020.

  1. Sasquatch New Member

    Should there be a warning label on T1 dps classes that you will be required to spend hundreds of dollars, at the very least, to compete? Otherwise you won't be a T1.......or am I being too extra and the time commitment to match a p2w player is not too lengthy? (Not likely)

    Clearly I'm having regrets and don't enjoy this game enough to spend the money required to be a solid T1 dps, like I'm supposed to by just rolling the class.(I've played this game for 15 years and can play just about any class to it's full potential, it's not a player problem)

    It wouldn't be that much of an issue if I could just reroll, but anything of value that you'll likely only come across once or only be able to afford once, like the red adorns, is no-trade instead of heirloom.

    I get that the lights need to be kept on but could we please move away from, $ = character power, and try a different method?
    PurpleChicken likes this.
  2. Laita Well-Known Member

    Aside from the crate mount and merc, what exactly is P2W? Honest question, I see people complain about this a lot, but there's nothing else in the market place that really has a major effect, unless I'm totally missing something. Ok... so infusers come in crates too... but I've gotten a ton of them on the free crates we get from the weekly merc mission, there's equal bounis infusers available through many achievements... and you can buy more crates with plat if you really want to go for the mount or merc….

    Now I get a lot of people suck at farming plat, but it's really too easy, especially when one gets lucky with recipes from overseers... so I just don't understand the entire theory that this game is P2W... yeah, those who spend stupid amounts of money just to satisfy their ****** on the parser exist... but it's sure as hell not required to do ANYTHING in this game...

    With all that said, the only "P2W" thing I see in this game is the premium xpac, which was actually worth it's weight.. but still can do just fine w/o it...
  3. Amalar Active Member

    Jrox, The-Plethora and Avithax like this.
  4. Avithax Well-Known Member

    1.Kronos = Plat to buy gear, adornments, recipes and countless other things.

    2. Cash: Server transfers from Isle of Refuge with upgrades. Level spells, mercs and mounts instantly. Buying thousands of Cobalt Crates for the Infusers and currency to buy the BIS mount.

    These are just the basic P2W necessities, i'm sure there are more. I'm not in any way endorsing this play style, but I am aware of quite a few who have spent 5 to 10 thousand dollars on just this xpac alone. The Ferenghi at DarkPaw have unlimited methods of selling game enhancements for $$ and at this point I don't think the game would survive without these P2W players.

    They're dwindling in numbers though. As so much content is released broken and the game lag increases they are slowly disappearing one by one. So someday soon we might find out the survivability of EQ2 without them.
  5. Laita Well-Known Member

    You're not describing pay to win.. you're describing pay to have it right now w/o any effort. Yeah, one can xfer to IoR and buy a bunch of kronos and buy gear, red/blue adorns, and pay to transfer back.. that's simple to do and makes for quickly gearing a toon... but that is in no way pay to WIN... because everything they got there is available for FREE by putting in a tiny bit of effort.....

    Pay to win, in my mind, means I HAVE to spend money in order to get X... and that really only applies to crate mount/merc (unless you win the lotto on your 2 free crates per week, or buy crates off the broker with plat), and premium xpac.. so again, I just disagree with you... pay to be lazy and put in effort, yes, but not pay to win.
  6. Errrorr Well-Known Member

    Mount & Merc - P2Win
    Everything else - P2Shortcut.

    Speed up your;
    Familiar levels
    Spells / Ascension / Infusion
    Merc Levels
    Mount Levels
    Fervor for returning players
    IoR buying.

    To be a top T1 dps, you will need to do both.
  7. Avithax Well-Known Member

    Tiny bit of effort??? What game do you play because you're not describing EQ2. I've run thousands of zones in search of these "low effort free items" and with very few exceptions my plat is the only reason i'm even close to relevant.

    Great to see ya btw Error.....
    PurpleChicken and Errrorr like this.
  8. Sasquatch New Member

    I could make a long long list but just 1 example is enough. If you don't pay real money for spell upgrades, you're stuck with expert spells at best (what T1 is going to compete with expert spells???). Farming masters is impossible and purchasing them is way too costly. Then of course it doesn't stop there because you still have to upgrade them to GM, Ancient or Celestial. Which takes about 1 and half months per upgrade per spell. You're well into the next expansion or the next next expansion by the time you get enough spells upgraded. Crazy.
  9. Beee Well-Known Member

    Not 100% correct: Yo get a huge amout of research time items from steel chests (can be bought with platin from other players) or from events with these items. As sidework you get a lot of bonus infusers.
    I allready got - without spending any DBC - 6 spells with this method to ancient

    But you need to spend a lot of time or money to be a top player, that's correct ;)
  10. Tocino the Troubadour Active Member

    I read the OP's post and it brought to mind an analogy that older players will understand. And I don't mean this to be mean spirited to the OP.

    Remember Studio 54? I do. I lived in NY at the time. I was never a clubbie, but many of my friends were. They would wait in line hoping to get in. Very few of them did. The owners of the club loved having people complain about not being able to get in. It created buzz about those who could get in and made getting in a truly sought after thing. The owners encouraged that. Let everyone in? Why, then there's no line for the world to see. Look, people wait for hours trying to get into this awesome club!

    The people in that line? That's the OP and those who can't afford the time or money to get in. btw, I'm one of those waiting in line. But there are plenty of folks wiling to shell out the money to get inside our T1 club. Enough that the owners of this game are unlikely to let everyone inside.
    Mermut likes this.
  11. Corydonn Active Member

    I would have disagreed with you a few years ago saying Spells/Ascension were pay to win when they came out since when Darkpaw had the Proving Grounds zones as content early in Ascensions life. The #1 way to win those was to buy the ascension upgrades. It's very much toned down now though.
  12. Laita Well-Known Member

    Yes, EFFORT. I've run thousands of zones, I've SLR'd my fair share of destruction runes (and a bunch of other lesser reds), have gotten lucky on a few overseer missions to sell off some VIII runes, went out and farmed the crap out of rares at the beginning of the xpac, sold everything in the initial mad rush, didn't keep anything, because it'll drop again, so may as well cash in on the hype before it dies.. I've made over a Bil plat this xpac through effort, which is pennies compared to many, I've converted most of it to kronos (I can play for free for damn near 10 years now if I choose to), there's absolutely NOTHING in this game that requires me to spend real money, with the exception of the fact that I bought the premium xpac.

    The problem with people claiming this is a pay to win game, is they want everything NOW... and if that's their attitude, they either need to get better at farming plat, or fork over their credit card.
    Sigrdrifa likes this.
  13. Kristabella Well-Known Member

    Unless the rules have changed on IoR, if you make a character there or bring one over there, you have to stay 30 days to transfer back, with what ever you bought there. The only way it is "instant" is if you have already had a character there, or if you are buying krono, because kronos go into your krono bank account wide instantly.

    That being said, why do you think they keep a dead server going. IoR is dead, only thing there are a few guilds of friends, a few legitimate raid guilds, and the rest are boxed raid guilds. They keep it there and not merge this server,because it makes them money. It only costs $5 which you can get easily with your free $5 sub reward, but costs $25 to transfer back to another server (less your 10% discount of course). So, they sell tons of kronos, that in turn get sold on IoR, then that money gets used to buy stuff, to take back to another server, then they get more money from the transfer fees. So, as long as IoR is a money making entity, it isn't going anywhere.
    Sigrdrifa likes this.
  14. Mermut Well-Known Member

    RNG gated content is NOT effort, it's luck.
    SLR is not effort, it's a permitted side-stepping of the heirloom/no trade tags
    This expansion there are no goals you can make progress towards. You either get lucky or you don't.
    This is the first expac that I feel zero motivation to log in to do more than raid and send off the overseers because the chances of getting something that isn't just crush fodder has been low from day one of the expac and it's only gone down. Loot from solos isn't even worthwhile for alts, since the quest line gear is better.. and toons need the questline to get the port potions and to be able to fly.
    Crafting, and consequently harvesting, is a waste of time because 99% of the crafted items aren't worth crafting even to crush.

    Last expac you could crush MC gear for weapon bits, salvage bits or adorning bits.
    There are items worth buying with at least some of the tokens. Solo gear was better than quested gear, so it was worth farming for alts.

    I would LOVE a reason to log in, especially with the shelter in place order, but, especially with the increases lack of control that order causes, RNG, which is also a complete lack of control, is massively DE-motivating.
    PurpleChicken, Bhayar, Jaeded and 3 others like this.
  15. Zynt Well-Known Member

    That's not really, "effort." It's time. there's no effort involved with RNG other than the time spent. Sunk cost fallacy and whatnot. It also, absolutely, equates to, "real money." It's different for everyone, and some people are retired, work part time, work 9-5, etc.. I have a consulting business and make roughly $86/hr after Uncle Sam mugs me in a dark alley. I set my hours, I determine how much work I want to do and how often. You better believe that there's a real money aspect to this, regardless. I saw your post in the Tradeskill forum, it's basically the same as the post made here, it just depends on the type of player you are.
    Erudinel and Avithax like this.
  16. Laita Well-Known Member

    My definition of 'effort' in a game = time spent. I know not all interpret effort in the same manner and that's fine. All this game is is a time sink, I don't think anyone is debating that. But HOW you spend your time determines your success. You can sit on the forums and in the guild hall crying all day about how much RNG sucks, how expensive things are in the in-game economy, and how you feel forced to spend real money... and guess what, if that's the route you decide to take, then yes, this game is absolutely pay to win, because you're wasting your time in game.

    or... you can get off the forums, out of the guild hall, run solos (just an example) until you're blue in the face... some days RNG will be on your side and you can make tens of millions of plat, some days all you're going to walk away with are weapon essences and a bunch of salvaged fragments (the later of which, is still a great way to make plat). It's not about the gear.. it's about the fragments, weapon essences and SLR's... solos are a great way to get plat rich, but so many of you feel they are beneath you. I can run all 12 solo's in under an hour, multiple times per day if I were motivated to like I was early in the xpac.

    I agree with you that this xpac doesn't build to anything.. that further shows that it is hardly pay to win, because there is nothing that REQUIRES paying money for. It's why I've dedicated my time in this xpac to plat farming, and prepping for whatever is released next year.

    All I'm trying to say through these posts is that there's absolutely NOTHING in this game that requires REAL money to be spent... time yes, money no. If people don't want to invest the time and want to be towards the top of the parser, then yeah, you'll likely have to spend $$, but that's your choice, not a requirement.
  17. Raff Well-Known Member

    Returning players always have this issue. The game is no longer ToT (or earlier xpacs) where gear upgrades can make any alt viable in any group or raid. Sad to say...I miss those days actually. Best advice I can give you is find a guild who will help you maximize your returning toon w/out spending a ton of cash. Take the time or spend the money...both methods work.

    That said OP...it is what it is. Play under the new rules and mgmt or don't, Your choice.
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  18. Mermut Well-Known Member

    I'm not 'crying' about anything. I am stating RNG sucks and why. I did not even mention the in-game economy nor say that I felt 'forced' to spend real money.
    Frankly, there isn't much worth spending plat ON. By choice, I don't participate in SLR.. on either side. I don't 'look down' or 'trash' those who do.
    My ONLY point is that there is nothing, at all, to WORK towards this expac. You get lucky or you don't. You have more CHANCES the more time you spend in game, but not BETTER chances. I have always found running solos to be on the boring side, but when there was a decent chance I'd get something other than crush fodder or infusers out, or I could use them to work towards something, it was worth my time. Right now, it's not.
    The only things in heroics or solo that I have ANY use for are the 'potions' (familiar and research), and the excessively rare no-trade shinies and they are such a SMALL drop chance as be closer to ideas than realities.
    Since the chances of useful rewards is vanishingly small and there is nothing to work/build towards.. the question for me is 'why bother logging in?'. Unfortunately, right now, the answer is 'no reason TO bother'.
    I'm not 'whining' about reality.. it's closer to mourning that reality.
    I WANT there to be a reason to log in... but I can't find one that works for me, since RNG doesn't motivate me, at all.
  19. Laita Well-Known Member

    I wasn't necessarily referring to you specifically, but people who are complaining about P2W in this game.

    And, I think we are in agreement with our opinions of this trashy xpac, but that wasn't the topic of this thread. This thread is about people being forced to pay real money to compete in the game.. and while I agree with your assessment of the xpac, I disagree with people saying they're being held back by lack of willing to pay real money, because everything that can be bought with cash can be acquired by investing the time... my only point.
  20. Mermut Well-Known Member

    If people want to raid and contribute on their T1 dps toons, they WILL be massively out performed by toons (non dps toons included) that DO spend money. That is my take of the 'complaint' this thread is based on. And it is 100% true.
    And a T1 DPS toon that is getting out dpsed by a toon that simply spent more money.. does lead to the question of 'why bother playing dps in that situation.

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