Swashbuckler / Monk Epic Weapon Revamps

I am making this thread because of the constant bickering and complaints between each other of different classes. Please do not post in this thread unless you are making suggestions and please do not post in this thread unless you are a Monk or Swashbuckler.
I noticed that out of the 37 Pages of suggestions about 15 of those are people griping about who is needed what they are needed for and this was not the original intent of the thread. So I ask that if you post here about the monk / swashbuckler Epic weapons keep it about suggestions and complaints only. I can't speak on behalf of the Monk weapon but I can about the Swashbuckler Epic.
These are the general complaints and changes wanted by the swashbuckler community as a whole and not just a part of us.
The Damage over Time proc on the weapon needs to be a direct damage proc : Reasons= It continualy overwrites itself and if we solo and use our mez it will break it.
The Proc for an xtra % of hate transfer to Swarthy Disorder needs to be permanent and not a proc: Reason= It does absolutely no good if its not up when there needs to be xtra hate transfered to the tank IE: Life Burns and Sniper Shots and Mana Burns.. etc...
The 10% Spell Reduction bein attached to Traumatic Swipe is indeed the most aggravating. You are forcing the Swashbuckler to max out the STR line to even utilize this proc and your justification on this is that if you have the means of aquiring your mythical then chances are you are T-Swipe Specced. This is not a valid reason and is an opinion and not a fact. Not to mention the 10% reduction is indeed not even worth it.. 15K attack is only lowered to 13.5k ... not going to help much ( sorry )
And also the 10% Increase to CA damage is fairly pointless in itself, considering that 50% of our damage is Auto Attack and also our CA's don't hit for that much making a 10% increase not worth it. 20% or 30% would be a noticeable change.
Suggestions on what could be done to make this weapon better.
Constant Increase to Swarthy Disorder
DD damage proc
10% Spell Reduction increased to 20-30% and attach it to Lung Bleed or something that is a Swashi CA.
And either up the % of increase to CA's or Change it to remove wield restrictions on our WIS line.
Thank you and please Aeralik consider some of these changes..

IMO I think this would be an awsome change for the Swash Epic Weapon.
Its just a suggestion

I'm not a form of makeup dagnabit I'm a rogue.

Suggestions only please.. and what the hell.. Makeup ????

You typo'ed in the picture Rogue is the stabby, Rouge is makeup =) Aside from me picking on you I like the ideas, but maybe instead of 30% magic damage 20% to all damage.

Thank you for including monks in your thread--it's nice that some people recognize we have legitimate issues with our mythical Regarding the monk epic, here is what I have gathered from the posts made by monks about the mythical.
1) Strikethrough is not useful enough for a monk as it currently stands. This ability is only useful when tanking, but when tanking it does not add much to hit rate anyway now that hit rates on orange mobs (and all mobs via warden/bard accuracy bonuses) have been increased. Moreover, monks do not generally have trouble with holding aggro on the mob. Most monks don't spend much of their time on raids tanking to begin with, but would at least like to get a tanking ability that is more useful than this small boost to hit rate. Most monks (that i have read) would like to see strikethrough replaced with something unique and beneficial, or have strikethrough reverted to affect dodge, possibly at a lower %. It is worth noting that strikethrough would not be as 'overpowered' as it was previously when working on dodges because melee hit rates are nowhere near as low as they used to be.
Numerous suggestions were made in the epic thread for effects that could be added to give monks a unique and useful ability. To recount just a few:
-- clickable effect akin to chi achievement : faster cast and recast of abilities. This might be particularly nice since the str line that gives chi is completely unviable to use with mythicals currently (because it requires bare-handed fighting).
-- remove the bare fist requirement for str line (more reasonably, do so with a reduced double attack bonus for str 3). I'll also mention here that the str line has been a hotbutton issue for both brawler classes for a long time, especially with the advent of mythicals. The achievement revamp that allowed everyone to use all their achievements with their epics missed the brawler str line. Contrary to the assertion of some developers in a developer chat, most brawlers did not want str line to remain unchanged. Some of them just didn't like the way that it was changed. It would be nice if this line could be revamped to make it viable while wielding weapons.
-- increase the duration of tsunami by 50-100%
-- increase trigger count of superior riposte to 3. It might sound too strong, but keep in mind that you can't use any CA without dispelling the effect. Also, it seems that the check for this ability occurs before your normal avoidance checks, so this is not as strong defensively as say tower of stone, which only blocks the hits that already passed through your normal avoidance checks. Some people might object to it being tied to AA, but at least its a class specific AA, not to mention there aren't enough good monk AAs to choose from anyway
-- make external calm a group-wide effect (wards magic damage done to each group member). This would be a nice ability to have yet would not be so strong as to prompt guilds to recruit a monk for every group
-- clickable immunity to control effects. Not my personal favorite, but I think it's appealing to avatar-killing monks.
2) The buff that increases mit to that of chain is weaker than the corresponding 10% dmg reduction on the bruiser mythical. Against level 80 mobs the difference in mitigation adds 6.9% damage reduction when group buffed (any healer's group mit buff). It would be nice if this buff were a bit more effective, especially since the mitigation becomes even less effective when wearing gear with additional mitigation. At minimum, however, this fact seems like a good reason to give monks something more useful in place of strikethrough, since the rest of their mythical isnt exactly superior to other fighters'.

If the Fencer line change were to happen, as you propose, it would greatly overpower swashbucklers. 68% double attack AND a weapon in offhand? You'd be doing Assassin DPS at that point.

That is not my point. It was nothing more than a suggestion as I had said. The reason for this post if for fellow SWASHBUCKLERS and MONKS to post the issues and complaints about there Epics.. and as far as I can see you play neither.. Thanks but no thanks..
Later

Everyone is entitled to an opinion =). Nothing positive will happen if we continue to be snarky however. I agree it would make us overpowered a little bit. The DPS mod on the stamina line I think would be much more beneficial and because it gives diminishing rewards it would probably cap off sooner. It would also eliminate the need to use the stupid master crafted ring the entire expansion.

Now that I can agree on. Removing the requirement to use a shield from the STA line. It would give us DPS but nothing more than Health and Avoidance. It would also give swashbucklers a secondary AA spec aside from the STR AGI lines.
I completely agree that this would be a great idea..

Removing the shield req would do nothing, most swash bucklers are in MT group, with dirge, coecer and adorns, you are well into the diminishing returns curve. It would just be wasted points if you ask me.


Not to mention you are complaining about your Mythical forcing you to take swipe, which is a rogue line, then requesting it to force you to take another rogue line. I don't understand the logic there.

Why not request it to something like Increase the hurricane chance by 45% and give flurry chance (maybe 10%) To successful hurricane hits? Would be just as usefull as removing the sta line requirement, be just as situational also. But would define a swash.

Yarrr but wouldn't be dependent on those buffs, if dirge needs to have other stuff up he can, and if coercer needs to put links on other groups he can

A dirge will always be playing that buff, there is no reason not to.

I still think that would make the mythical worse than it is today.

Adding more to hurricane is rather useless in this expansion anyways =). Needless to say adding anything really to our mythical that makes use of the rogue aa's is going to be useless or not sufficient enough. I would love to see something like a double attack bonus but that would make us way too strong. Even adding the static hatetransfer is kind of pointless because most tanks are capped for hate and mythicaled guardians don't really have problems keeping hate anyways. I suggested dps because we're primarily an auto attack dps class. The bottom line is, the 10% magic damage reduction is worthless because if an AE is going to hit hard enough anyways the small damage reduction wont mitigate anything significantly. Something like a reduction to all damage attached on something like lungbleed would be in line with our offensive debuffing skills. The DoT being changed to a DD would help. I don't really have any complaints about the +10% to all CA damage other than the fact this is already on another item in the game that has been in the game for quite a while.

Mythicals will be used next expansion, and isn't hurricane useful on avatar fights?

I personally don't want to see our mythical with a hurricane increase. Its a great ability but unless they take it back to what it was when they first released the ability its just not worth it to me.

I would rather see them just listen to what we have been suggesting. Its not like we are asking them to re-architect the game for our epic. We are asking them to actually make our epic class specific and defining like it should be.

1. Change the DoT proc to a comparable DD
   1. We don't want a DoT, I don't know how many ways we can keep saying this.
2. Make the Threat transfer permanent.
3. Move the swipe effect to Lung bleed, make if affect all damage output and increase the percentage.

It is really sad to me that it seems the Developers don't actually care anymore about what a community has to say about their class. It seems like these kind of posts are an effort in futility now, Aeralik seems to just be out right ignoring swashbucklers at this point. I was going to say he hasn't even responded to his thread in days but he just posted a response to Fury's.....

Aeralik just ignores swashies it seems, I try to start a polite conversation with him in game but no answers, ever. I don't even know why we're bothering trying to get it to be a swash mythical instead of a rogue mythical.

Or he just sees what we all think and doesn't want to make the needed changes..

This thread should not be a pot of ideas on what needs to happen to each epic, because of the overwhelming agreement on what needs to happen to the epics, as can be seen in Delowen's post above.
This should be a petition and an outcry for having our weapons designed by game devs who don't play our classes or do but have less of a clue about what is class defining than the actual players do. To give them the benefit of the doubt, if there is a swash dev, he's probably the Colmes to Aeralik's Hannity and was drowned out and brow beaten by Aeralik during the design phase of the epic weapons and who's office use to be the storage closet, because no swashy in their right mind would design Charm's Way to be in its current state without a serious dose of intimidation from a certain assassin. As such the assassin epic reflects the kind of class-definement we should expect for all epics, but is obviously not the case for us.
The only way this is going to be successful is if more monks and swashies participate in this thread, otherwise we're going to be told that "other swashies" like Charm's Way so we have no need to change it.
Reiteration:
- Traumatic Swipe changes to Lung Bleed(since LB is our offensive debuff.)
- Hate xfer permanant,
- DoT proc to DD proc to be more in line with our actual skills and to not make one of our skills useless.

noted and will create.. hehe..

Edit: Well uhm ,, seems SoE dosn;t like polls .. So Uhm yeah go to the eq2flames.com/swashbucklers site and look for my post.. hehe.. darnit SoE..

A problem with getting a vast collection of people is that many people do not use official forums. Quite a few use EQ2flames, which devs avoid due to the bull crap associated with the website. Can try to get people in world swash channel to come post but many aren't motivated to do crap.
anyways, if any swashbucklers care we got a vote going on at swashbuckler.bravehost.com, after we get results supposed to be forwarding results to multiple devs. better to TRY Than to not try and never know.