Supporting Returning Players and ideas for Refer-a-Friend?

Well - I want to tell you my own point of view ...
I have not really been gone currently (after one or two longer breaks over all the years) - but due to time constraints i couldn't play like i wanted - so - i missed quite some expansions because i didn't have the time to seriously play or used the small amount of time i had to craft or work on some house-designs *smile*.
But really "playing" the game - nope. The last time I really got my accounts "up to date" was with the release of DoV.
And now ... I can tell you what really, really, really irked me:
- I had to rework my characters several times due to some weird changes in the aa system (for example) literally let me start with a fresh character i did not know. (once i didn't care to reassign those points for 2 years i think - but just kept crafting, housing and doing the one or other alt for fun).
Every time a gaming company feels like they need to destroy a built character is a good idea due to some game-changes - I can tell you: it alienates a bunch of your fans.
I happen to be a roleplayer - so sometimes I decide on purpose to design a character with certain weaknesses to give him "character". Yes - this doesn't fit into todays "mmo"-ing any longer - but still - when I started EQ or EQII they still were called roleplaying games.
- the insane amount of things you need to know about the game.
I am not talking about content - content always is cool. But ... I still do not know about certain types of armor ... I know there was something in lavastorm or something *shrug*. Then the chronomancer stuff ... I had to ask around to get an idea what all this is about. And there are so many more things I know that they exist - but I have absolutely no idea what to do with them nor how to utilize them. And there are even more things I don't even know they exist - but should know!
So - what does all this lead to from my perspective?
It lead to the point where i decided not to play my characters because it was way too complicated for me (geesh ... i am getting old *lol*). I was way too confused what all this means, what they did to my character looking at aa's, ... all the different stuff you need to know ...
At a point I justed used EQII as an expensive chat channel.
And - yeah - that was ok for me.
Now - I accidently logged in a character on a silver account a while ago ... boy ... i was annoyed/angry/alienated/... within seconds! Not finding anything in my bags (i usually travel with more than one set of clothes *smile* ... roleplayers ... i told you) becase my toons got striped off all their clothing and all sent to my bags. No thanks ... I am not in the mood looking up what I had on them last time I was on gold. I even lost the interest to chat with my guild and decided to chalk it up because it made me so angry.
What I would love to see:
- if you don't want to let us keep all the armor we earned while being gold - PLEASE - adopt the system you have in EQ. There is absolutely no need to strip characters! Just mark their equipment as unuseable but let them keep it equiped.
- bags - this is a similar thing ... you don't have to open up the slots forever. But hey ... maybe give us a couple of logins - or maybe a week to sort the items out of the bag-slots that will be locked then. That way we "free" players can look up what we may need - knowing that if we don't do it that it will be locked "soon".
- get a nice introductory quest system open for everybody! explain EVERY aspect of the game in the order it was introduced! You can look at EQ what you did there. But for a returning player this might not be enough - you could flesh it out more. I would love working a week on quests that explain to me how EQII evolved and what kind of features I have at my disposal, how they work, how to earn special gear, ... I think you get the idea.
To sum it up: For a returning players this game is way too complicated. I talked with friends several times trying to get them to play again - and quite a few of them think the same. If you've been gone for a good while - you have a very hard time learning the game again.
Starting fresh toons won't really help - because you will not learn all the features and tools you have at your disposal.
(example from outside EQII: i wanted to play eve again ... i didn't even leave the dock because i couldn't find my way through the userinterface anymore ... in eq at least i still know how to navigate with my character *smile*)

oh - and bring back the islands and the class-sub-quests!
For years I think that it was one of the biggest mistakes the producers ever made: To remove the most optimal way to learn your character in the whole gaming business. It gave you a wonderful idea of how your class works and you did not have to decide right away.
But well - back then this still was a roleplaying game - now it is just massive multiplayer online game.

then ... 280 aa. While this isn't much nowadays - if you have a character that never raided, ... and started right at launch ... this is a chore!
I tried hard to get to those 280aa ... but yeah ... forget about. I am not into grinding. So I am done. A character on another account I started later ... has more AA although he always was accompanied by the "old" character.
I wouldn't care if you lock instance soandso behind x amount of aa and level y ... why should I. But i do care if you don't let me progress unless I get back to grinding AAs or using some loopholes in the game to get them grinded automatically. Not my way.
You can't expect players who are currently actively playing to wait on returning players until they have grinded their level AND their aa just so you can drag them through current content.
You should leave that choice with the players ... the choice whom to bring into an instance and whom not because they don't have enough AA.

Then I am missing the "open world"-feeling. Maybe roleplayers see it a bit different than the current generation of players. But for me the way is more important than the goal. I loved progressing through zones, logging out at the end of the day knowing that we will meet again at x time tomorrow to continue our journey. Well - that part of the game is gone for good and won't return. But still it made the game different. Currently we have a game just like any other asia-grinder out there - if you enable SOGA models - the difference is even less *smile*.

A week ago, I was one of the first responses to this topic.
I realize few people ever go back and read everything, especially with 7 pages of commentary. So here are my 1500 words.
I started discussing the ideas with some of my EQ2 friends, and they suggested that I try out the newest game, GuildWars 2. Please ignore the flames below from the TL;DR crowd, I'm not in any way saying jump ship. I'm heavily invested in EQ2 with 7 Level 90+ Characters, 6 level 92 Crafters, and two alt accounts. I played EQ1, and I really love the immersive world of Norrath.
Level Scaling: That said, Arenanet has come up with an innovative solution to having most of the playerbase max level. To put it simply, there is no trivial content. As you travel through their world, your player automatically scales to the level of the content around you. The loot rewards are based not on the content, but on your level. Unlike the mentoring / chrono system in EQ2, this scaling actually works. Being a higher level makes it slightly easier to do lower level content - but you won't be soloing an epic - Ever. Working with other adventurers, you can complete their version of quests (called dynamic events, similar to the Ring War) and get rewards which are commensurate with your character's actual level. Imagine crawling through Fallen Gate, and it being just as challenging as it was at launch, but instead of level 20 weapons dropping, you're seeing Skyshrine / Sleeper's Tomb equivalent gear.
There are a number of mechanics which GW2 implements which would require a complete rewrite of EQ2, so comparing the two games isn't really fair. For example, in EQ2, mobs are tagged and "belong" to the first person to attack the target. In GW2, assisting is encouraged, and you get experience and loot based on your amount of participation.
The general concept however is very valuable to read into. Reward players for what you want them to do. If you want them to group, give them an exp BONUS and higher drop rate for grouping. If you want them to explore, give them discovery experience (both games do this).
GW2 has a flat leveling curve. It takes just as much time to go from level 5 to 6 as it does to go from 60 to 61. This mechanic, combined with the auto-scaling system means that the developers can focus on providing quality content at all level ranges - instead of having to provide either exponentially more content, or bigger time sinks as the levels increase. If 92-95 continues with the current exp curve (http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Character_Development), and exp from the zones in Chains of Eternity isn't significantly greater than previous expansions (specifically 3x higher) then the expansion will need to have a vast amount of content in order for players to cap out within the expansion. This was a problem in Sentinel's Fate, as people were completing the major quest lines, were not yet 90, and were dissatisfied.
Gearing Up > Leveling Up: A significant investment has been made in creating content for EQ2 over the last 8 years. That fact is advertised as a selling point for EQ2, and I've experience most of it multiple times. The value in an MMORPG isn't simply getting the best gear. Sure, for some, it is. These players are content to repeat the exact same three or four zones as often as they can for the chance to get a single item which gives them a 1% upgrade (or more likely, to get an upgrade for their 3rd 92 alt). Gearing up, for me, is a game killer. I can't put into words how frustrating it is to not be able to experience content because someone looks at your equipment and realizes that you won't be able to tank/heal/dps/survive in a zone, or worse, you won't enable the group to complete the zone in under 30 mins. Gearing up in raids takes a while, but makes your character significantly more powerful. Farming rares/shinies or soloing instances/raid zones can give you significant plat to allow you to purchase the gear which your raid force can not complete, giving you a leg up.
But it is the game? Seriously? Where is the adventure, the commeraderie, the feeling of accomplishment when you're buying your gear? Where is the fun in mechanically clearing the same content that you cleared an hour and a half ago?
Existing Content: New players want to see a living, breathing game. Trintel, a wizard on Permafrost is on a one-man mission to make everyone realize the negative impact that Guild Halls have had on the appearance of an active server population. I might not agree with him entirely, but it's true. It isn't just that the server population has taken a nose-dive since launch (btw, this happens with EVERY game - it's normal). It's that there isn't a reason to go to Feerrott or deep within Pillars of Flame. When's the last time you've seen more than 10 people in Lesser Faydark, or god forbid, Bonemire. A fantastic GM on our Permafrost server is on a mission to bring people to the Commonlands. Why? BECAUSE IT IS THERE.
The lore in EQ2, if you dive into it as I have, is fascinating and immersive. I'm in rapture about Nagafen's future involvement with Kerafyrm, curious if the Duality and Yelinak are right about the our involvement in Age's End, and patiently waiting for the story to unfold. The lands themselves are creative and beautiful. You can get lost in Greater Faydark, feel the ancient mystery of Feerrott, or simply watch the sunset in Pillars of Flame (turn to max settings, take screenshots. You'll have some awesome wallpaper!) I realize players want new content. Skyshrine was a massive game update, delivered in April. By June, people were sick of running the same four zones. Is a "Sleeper's Tomb" every few months really enough to sate the appetite of the end-game player? TSO had nearly a dozen instances of varying difficulty, and yet even then people were complaining about a lack of content.
An excellent solution, posted by myself and others is: scaled quest rewards with a secondary mentoring system.
Give existing players a reason to revisit the "Strong heritage and lore with game content spanning 7 years and 6 expansions." Reintroduce them to the "Over 5,000 creatures to battle and more than 8,000 quests to complete with hundreds of gorgeous, expansive and dangerous environments to explore". And in doing this, give NEW players and existing players a reason to group together.
Overly Powerful Characters: Almost every day I see some newbie in level 1-9 looking for a group. I assure you that if you've played for more than a month, you've seen it too. Yet all of us "veteran elites" are too busy farming, grouping or jumping in circles to help a new player out. When you decide to, it isn't "helping them". You're powerleveling them because you outgear the content even while mentored. Even a "level-locked progression guild" is two-grouping x4 level 50 content. Thank goodness for it, because the server population this time of year makes filling any raid force a monumental task.
SOE Advertising: As CoLD MeTaL mentioned, it is easier to keep an existing customer than acquire a new one. I know enough about marketing to accept that the current user base for EQ2 doesn't generate enough revenue to make any successful ad campaign worthwhile. The target market is quite small, the game isn't "new and shiny" and there is a lot of competition in the industry. The only way to save the game that we love enough to spit out our frustration in these forums is to bring in new blood ourselves. WE have to be the advertising for EverQuest II.
Sure, there are a lot of things to fix, but you have to make the game fun. Grouping is fun. Unless you're 92, or know someone, you're going to be soloing for 91 levels. In December, you can make that 94.
Refer-a-Friend: Was the point of Refer-a-Friend REALLY to have existing players refer themselves so that they could multi-box and powerlevel their alts? Was it so that people could get a cool mount for $15? Was it so that people could teleport to someone and make travel easier? Or was it to get new people playing and enjoying the game?
I know my rant above is long, and for that, well, deal with it. I hesitated in writing anything at all because, what's the point? I realize that SOE has broad support for multiple games on other platforms, but I'm really sick of seeing ads for their games on their facebook page. (Like it! http://www.facebook.com/EverQuest2?fref=ts)
AoD made me, for the first time, question whether I wanted to buy an EQ2 expansion. CoE holds a great deal of promise. Yet if SOE doesn't fix the core problems which are causing player attrition, CoE will only give returning players a sour taste.

Well said Malokar
Although there is a tight market for MMOs EQ2 has unique features that already set it apart from other titles. Integrating features that accentuate what EQ2 already has such as more agnostic content would go a long way to making the whole game relevant. I was talking to family just tonight about playing again. They mentioned how basic features like mail and broker were restricted and made the game feel like they didn't want them there and thought a one time charge for access would be great.
I think if a few noteworthy changes were made, maybe even a 64 bit client, and packaged for a "grass roots" type campaign by players it would see a spike in subs. By note worthy I mean making content agnostic or switching class/trades on the fly something that any MMO player would ask "really, they did that?". EQ2 had a lot of those features already and not enough know about them.
Players, start selling your game

I am not a current subscriber. I haven't played for quite some time... last time was over a year ago, and before that it was probably another year of not playing. If memory serves I signed up for a month to see how the game looked on the new rig that I just built. All of my friends have long since given up on EQ2 and moved on.
What's keeping me from playing EQ2 again? I would assume that my opinion is fairly important, since it sounds like a player like me is what this thread is aimed at. There are things outside of the control of SOE, namely other games. I spend time playing sports games on my console. I spend time playing FPS games on my PC. I also have a family, a job, and limited free time.
What can SOE do to entice former players like me? Well, keep in mind I haven't played since the game went F2P, so excuse any information I have that is incorrect. Most of my information comes from other forums, as I look in on EQ2 topics from time-to-time.
As I see it, if you want returning players then you need to tear down barriers that keep them from coming back. The biggest barrier I see to returning now is that I've heard complaints that certain races and items are unavailable to you unless you pay money to unlock them. When these races and items are things you already have on your account it is a serious negative point to returning. Why do I want to play a free game when I have to pay money before getting into it? If I can't jump in and play with my main character and all of his things then that makes me not even want to try. I want to get in the game and be impressed with the changes and be delighted again, which might get me to spend money. Think of it as a free trial. If there is a way around this then SOE needs to do a much better job communicating that to the community of former players.
My personal pet peeve with EQ2 was the lack of community. When I was playing I can't remember too many cases where I had spontaneous conversations with other players, or see them taking place. Players in Qeynos were just running from one quest hub to the other, with other players being inconsequential. The exception was where you'd run into a few other players grouped up to tackle a tough target. But then once that's done you're lucky to get a "Thanks" or "See you..." as they're dropping group.
Lastly, one of the worst of my experiences was when I leveled up to the mid 50's. The level-appropriate zones were barren. I can't remember the name of the zone (but it was the snowy area) but I do remember that I was completely alone. Of all things, this solo experience was the largest factor in clicking on the cancel button.
What to do to change things? I have just a few ideas;

• Let players use the characters and items they've already obtained. Just don't let them create another character from the races restricted on their account.
• Create new loot or collections for all lower/medium zones that would be desired by higher level players. Make it so that the loot would only drop for characters that are mentoring down. Give the high level characters a really good reason to revisit the older zones and help out newer player through mutual gain.
• Group xp bonuses (if there are none) or raise them. Encourage grouping. It could be exploited, but the negative is outweighed by the positive.
• Guild xp bonuses. Give an xp bonus to guild members when they group up together.

In summary, we just have to face the fact that EQ2 is an old game, and a lot of people like myself are looking forward to hearing more about EQ3/EQNext than sinking time into this game. I hate to say that you have to give things away or make the game easier, but you're not going to get former players to return in bulk unless you make it worth their time.
Just my humble opinion... do with it as you will.

Nocturnos@Antonia Bayle wrote:

This is only true if you come back as a Bronze or Silver subscriber -- IOW, a "freeloader." If you come back as a paying subscriber, it's not true.
FWIW, I'm a Silver subscriber, & I'm OK with those restrictions. As far as gear & spells go, you don't really feel the restriction until you get up above 80th level, at which point buying item & spell unlockers from the marketplace becomes increasingly necessary. The single biggest restriction I feel is the "plat cap," which is pretty harsh. Another significant restriction for Bronze & Silver players is the inability to set your AAXP slider -- it's permanently set at 50%. But gaining AAs has not been a major issue for me, though it might be a bigger problem for other people.
The classes & races are as you say: the basic races & classes are free, beyond that you pay for them. I find it somewhat irritating that you buy races in "packs" of 3, but classes individually; I'd be much happier if they sold the classes in pairs, for example, Warden & Fury for one price. I could see raising the price on the pairs, but I don't think it needs to be doubled.

Storage restrictions can also be a hassle, especially since there's no way on the marketplace that I know of that unlocks additional bank & shared storage slots

I've wanted to return many times, but I'm not happy with the way SOE has handled my hacked account. Been playing for 3 years, then someone hacked into my account and robbed me of everything I worked hard for. I left the game, and then came back a f2p player for a little while.
I then found out SOE can restore your character to the point before my account was hacked. I was a happy gamer. After contacting SOE they said the only way they will restore my account is if I upgraded from f2p to p2p. What the hell is that? And there is no guarantee that they can do the restore. So instead of treating a 3 year old veteran with some kind of courtesy and respect, they blackmail me into subbing to get my account restored.

Does this sound like a company I want to support and play their games????

My suggestion, treat dedicated players with more respect.

Finora@Everfrost wrote:

I read all the pages and I saw many interesting ideas. Here are my 5 cents on this topic.
Many of my friends, who used to play the game and quit, are simply logging out after 10 min and realising they are naked. They already paid for their gear/ classes/ races so they are surprised thay have to do it again. They choose to log out and not even see how the game changed since they played last time.
So I agree what other people said: those people who used to pay monthly subscription should be able to wear all the gear they have as well as haveing races and classes unlock.
If you think that unlocking races and classes is too much, then maybe allow to fully unlock 2 of their old toons, and to have rest of the toons unlocked returning players would have to buy races/classes if they want to stay F2P. Also allow them at least to access to all their bags and take items from them, and then lock the slots?
Fully unlocking old toons would simply make those returning players to feel somewhat comfortable. Toon they know and gear they already have - this would be easier start for them.
Also, many F2P players complain they can't equip gear/ items from some quests, like heritage/ signature quests. Why to do those quests if you can't equip the item? Why should F2P player buy DoV x-pac if you can't equip items from quests?
I think you would see many players back if you would allow f2p players to equip gear which they can get from quests. This way, especially on higher levels, the diffrence in gear won't be so big as it is now between gold member and f2p players. This way also f2p players could get a chance to go to group instances with some pickup groups. If something nice will drop for them from group instance I am pretty sure they would think about buying unlockers. At this point f2p players have a chance to go to end level instances (drunder/ skyshrine) only with their friends as rarly someone will take f2p player in mastercrafted gear to those zones. So allowing F2P player equip items which they get from quests would make their life a bit easier and more players to group with.
As Finora said, the way you did it in Vanguard is great. It simply allows F2P player check each race and class up to level 20 and then decide if I want to buy it or not. F2P players in Vanguard can also equip 90% of gear from quests. Do the same in EQ2 please... Do the same in EQ2. Allow to try each class and race up to level 30 and then, if you want to continue and you have to buy unlockers for certain classes and races.
Mentoring... Common, mentoring is a joke in eq2. It is simply power leveling. I mentor my toons to level 10 and clear Wailing Caves without ANY problems. Mentoring should be challenging and fun. Fun for me and fun for my friends with whom I want to group while mentor. It shouldn't be consider PowerLeveling. People like challenges even on lower level and you simply forgot about it... You should really re-think mentoring system and make 92 lvl toons less powerfull on lower levels.
As some people mentioned in this thread and other threads on forum - if I group with someone I earn less xp, so you really should change it. And yes I read explanation about how much more mob is giving xp, well maybe, but for many people it works thsi way:" I group with someone, so I earn less xp, so I am not going to group". Player who decides to mentor someone and run some low level instances should get the same amount xp as doing it alone or even a bit more. Reward people for grouping together.
I like Instant Adventures in Rift. It is really nice system. It allows max level characters to port stright away to lower level zones overland zones and do some dynamic quests with group of random players of different levels. Players are mentored to the zone level, not to player level. And as a reward for doing certain amount of quests, you get a shard for which you can buy some gear appropriate to level of your toon. There are daily missions for instant adventures which rewards extra shards.
You could do something similar. Random mentoring groups and some dynamic quests to do for diffrent levels: 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40. For example if you are on level 15 you would be ported to Commonlands to do there 2 quests, then to Antonica - next 2 quests, then Darklight Woods and Greater Faydark. Finish certain amount of quests and get a shard and new players could visit some new zones this way. Merchants could sell items for different levels, so at the end, for that shard you get from grouping (mentoring) on lower levels, you could buy nice armor from level 10 to max. Not to mention that those shards could be needed to buy some special rewards, like mounts, houses, super gear, items, etc. And you have happy new players as there is something to do and they can get a random group. And what is nice in those adventures - you don't need specific setup in lower level zones because scout can tank just fine
Right now there are certain tokens for certain level of gear, which I feel is a mistake. Maybe it is time to re-think shard system in EQ2 and allow players to spend them on armor for different levels? I would love to buy gear for my level 40 alt for my Velium Shards. Right now I have so many of them and nothing to spend on, so what's the point in grouping?
You could also make some armor/ items buyable only if you have different types of shards, from different levels + maybe those shards from random mentoring groups
Another thing about which F2P players complain a lot is how much money they are allowed to have on max level. Common, you can't even buy a master for 18 plats, so why to buy unlocker for that master? You should increase amount of money F2P players can have. Maybe keep as it is to level 70 and after that level f2p players would be able to have more money, lets say 50 plats at least? You could make also unlockers for increasing cap to 100pp, 200pp up to let's say 500pp, so F2P player would actually be able to buy more expensive items and masters sold on channels...
I don't know exactly how it is to become silver member from free, but if you have to pay for being silver, then maybe add also possibility that you are automatically granted silver membership if you spend min 1000SC in MarketPlace for some other items?
One more thing, Guild Halls are great but unfortunately the Cities are empty now and it doesn't look good for new players. Add some speciall merchants and daily quests to pick up in the cities? Make some events? The only time I saw Qeynos with lots of people running around, well... certain part of Qeynos, was Tinkerfest event... Maybe add similar events available all the time, where people have to gather something to buy from special merchants? Repeatable quests which rewards city faction and tokens for which you can buy special items? Gathering coins/items (no-tradeable) scattered through all the city which you can exchange for faction, and later you can buy nice items, appearance armor, mounts, funny titles...
I am not even sure that people realise there are diffrent factions in the cities (mages, scouts, etc) and they have merchants. When did you add new items for those faction merchants? Do you even remeber about those merchants? Make Cities alive, there is so many possibilities...
When it comes to Euro players - you can win them back only if you allow us, Euro players, to stay with SOE if we choose to do so. I know many euro people will quit this game when transistion will come. They play on diffrent servers. This basically means emptier servers and even less people to group with, which means less happy customers and at the end more people quiting eq2 and soe games...
And last thing: start advertising your games. Common many people don't even know that eq2, eq, vanguard and other soe games exists. Supporting Fansites also would help beacuse at the end in some cases, it is free advertisment for you...
So to sum up you should:

• change how memberships look like (silver and bronze),
  
• re-think how to welcome back previous subscribers,
  
• change mentoring and make some challenging low level content (yes, herioc scarecrows in antonica),
• encourage people to group more on lower levels,
• make cities alive again,
• allow f2p players to equip items form quests...

Sorry for such a long post, but I really hope that finally you will start listening to your community.

I used to love Everquest 2, and had a blast playing Nagafen for years. However I recently returned to find Nagafen a ghost town. The Pvp rulesets have slowly decayed over the years due to lack of developer updates. I know that pvpers on EQ2 are in the minority, but feeling like a second class citizen and rarely getting updates or fixes outside of once in a blue moon "hail mary" patches is very dissapointing.
Besides seeing Pvp in a terrible state of affairs, another thing is having all your gear unequipped. I was once a paying subscriber, I equipped my gear when I was paying monthly, I should keep it on as a silver member. If i want to get new gear, fine, Ill buy unlockers or resub, but dont punish players by unequiping what the already earned as previous subscribers.

The instanced dungeons and lack of players to run dungeons with at the low levels turn me away everytime I try to play EQ2. Unfortunately instancing appears to be the way of the masses so I know I'll never enjoy that aspect of the game but I would hope something could be done to give players a reason to join and run the lower level dungeons.

As much as I dislike WoW, getting a group to run any dungeon there is relatively simple and fast due to thier dungeon finder. The last time I came back to try EQ2's new dungeon finder tool I spent over an hour waiting in queue for a low level dungeon. I never did get a group so I just logged off and uninstalled the game. It was actually easier and usually faster putting a group together in EQ1, but with EQ2s massive EXP bonuses for solo questing there is really no incentive for anyone to run the low end dungeons.

I recently came back to EQ2 after a long break. What attracted me back was news of the Sleeper's Tomb instance
I had to start all over simply because my server was unpopulated. My biggest beef with EQ2 returning is the same one with EQ1: I feel thrown into a top heavy community where all I hear about is powerleveling services in exchange for platinum. So I feel the need to take advantage of these services because I simply dont find anybody around my level to group with. I feel that station access should be advertised more, especially the fact that you get a decent discount on expansions with it as I bought both EQ2 expansions at once instead of spaced out.
When I log on the goal is to get max level asap even if I dont know what is offered at max level, this is the common feelings the west has with MMO's. If on the opening site where it gives a summary of the game had a button "End Game Content" and after clicking showed all of the things to do at end game it may bring in more people because it sure would of faster for me. Show that is offered at end game dont hide it.

The difference between returning and new characters, needs to be recognised. Each should be handled differently.

If someone signs in, that has not played for a couple of years? Welcome them back! Let them run around with their character wearing ROK or TSO gear (or older). Let them play the race/class they made back in the day. There is no gain from stripping them naked or locking their toon (don't want to start on the wrong foot). If they actually play the game, they will need to buy item unlockers (or a gold sub) to put on the new equipment they will inevitably obtain. If they want to make new characters, they will need to buy unlockers, or a gold sub...

But a line would need to be drawn. If someone quit just a few months ago, they will have gear much more relevant to current tier content, so they should be stripped. They also would know the FTP system and how it works, so it will be no rude suprise.

I like the idea about it being free to play any race/combo up to level 20 or 30, but dont really consider it a dramatic improvement. Would just be a little cherry on top of a FTP trial system.

Mentoring - We need 2 different modes of mentoring. The current model (as is). And an alternative version, where we mimic the primary stats/ability_ratings of the person we mentor. This way we can choose between PLing a guildies 13th alt, OR actually PLAYING the game with a recruited friend, instead of dragging them around like a ragdoll through a nuclear warzone.

Community is a primary factor for player retention in MMOs. Having solo options to level is nice and all, but filling a group should ALWAYS be the most desirable path. Adding extra people to the group slows down the EXP I get per hour. Being punished for being social in an MMO is utterly terrible game design.

I know Lyndro came out and tried to tell us we are wrong, that there is a BONUS for grouping (not a penalty). In the vacuum of a spreadsheet, Lyndro would be right. But due to the impact of numerous gameplay elements (such as mob density, speed of kills, travel times between kills, and repop rates), Lyndro provided an outdated, inaccurate answer. There is a penalty for grouping.

Sure, there are hermits in the population, who like to hide away in their private guild hall, and only emerge to feed when it is silent. But I believe the majority of people play an MMO because they want to play a game with other people. Social gameplay should be encouraged (not discouraged) on a mechanics level, from 1 to 92 inclusive. Solo options should exist, but make grouping options vastly superior, for more than just top-tier gameplay.

I would like to return, but to be honest I just don't understand Sony anymore and personaly feel like all they care about is getting as much money from me as they possibly can. I don't see how you can call this game a F2P game when you charge for the expansions/game. So you are going to charge for the game, they claim it's F2P and micro charge for every little thing? That makes no sense to me.
On top of that the F2P model that you have implemented is very complicated. As many have mentioned on here before, you log in and bam, it's like you have nothing. Everything you paid for in the past is gone.. to be honest it's kind of a rip off.
In fact, it's painful to think how much I invested into this game in terms of montly fees and my time only to see Sony throw all that out the window. So I know it may be off topic, but for me your F2P implementation ruined it all for me. Maybe if you guys redesigned it and came up with a new, simplier model that I could understand and pay for, then maybe I'll come back. But as it stands right now I have no idea how much I'm going to have to pay for this game.

I played EQ2 for six years, I even met my wife playing this game but over the years (specifically the last two years) I have grown to despise SOE and how the company is run.
The constant lies, the nickle and diming everything possible, the shear greed in terms of the constant stream of SC products and yet no fixes to core gameplay mechanics killed the game.
I quit shortly after the 'feature expansion' was released, during that time I saw a amazing guild simply die due to SOEs policies regarding this game. Content just seemed to be shoveled out with no care or thought. Everything seemed 100% geared towards marketplace and very little else.
For example, I used to raid a lot, we got I think one mount to drop from raid mobs in a year, during that time there must have been 25+ different mounts released to the marketplace. It seemed to me that the actual gameplay of EQ2 was simply abadoned at somepoint and someone decided to try and milk as much as possible from the playerbase as possible.
I suspect that SOE have finally come to realise that without players there are no marketplace sales, hence the reason for this thread.
What would get me to play this game again, in a word nothing. I never will, there's ZERO chance SOE will support the game how it should be so why come back. It's obvious to anyone with a brain that the game is vastly undermanned and is basically in life support mode. My suggestion is to carry on milking all those lonely stay at homes moms who are willing to drop $$$$ on the latest virtual furniture.

'I read all the pages and I saw many interesting ideas. Here are my 5 cents on this topic.
Many of my friends, who used to play the game and quit, are simply logging out after 10 min and realising they are naked. They already paid for their gear/ classes/ races so they are surprised thay have to do it again. They choose to log out and not even see how the game changed since they played last time.
So I agree what other people said: those people who used to pay monthly subscription should be able to wear all the gear they have as well as haveing races and classes unlock.'
-- Exactly this. I had two accounts for EQ and EQ2 from the start and only recently stopped playing once the FTP hit. To me and my friends, all who paid yearly subs up front, it was a carcrash of a conversion.
Bundle that with the poor way hacked accounts were dealt with and also the way annual sub payers were treated by not being given the sony SC cash each month if you 'did not auto renew', it felt that SOE was just not caring about their longterm client base.
(Auto renew on annual subs when our accounts had been hacked ? Really? Customer Service also took ages to deal with the hacks and never owned up to having poor account security their end).
Even the authenticator key is awful to use, which we bought after the hacks happened!
But the final straw is having EQ2 & EQ being farmed off to Probien Sat for European players, such a terrible company and if you think our personal and cc' details will be left with them, you are very much mistaken.
So - as much as EQ2 is missed by our group, SOE pretty much destroyed it with the above actions, well done.
Lord of the Rings Online has a great FTP option where you do not feel 'cheapened' by the whole experience, such a shame you did not follow that example.
A great fix would be to allow european players the option to stay on US servers and er fix the awful 'naked unless you pay subs' ftp mess.
Paying for expansions? Sure no problem, always have, always will. Stay with EQ2? Love to, but SOE broke it, not the players.
I used to have two monthly subs for games running, now its zero. With lifetime TSW, free GW2, LOTR and even SWTOR when it comes back to FTP, as a PVE'r and story lover, EQ2 still has a chance to regrab that sub.
Overall a very odd way of ruining years of a great journey.

I've tried to return a few times but leave once all the pain of FTP gets too much.
My 2 cents worth.

1. My gear isnt useable:
Repeated many times - making my character unable to equip gear they earned during the time I played really sucks - in fact the entire lock out gear/spells based on account type is flawed and just designed to make you loose players.
2. In your face marketing:
Marketplace is too constant a "in your face freeloader" pop up and annoyance - remove it from login or just pop up a windom message saying - check out the great things in the marketplace. I dont buy from people who spam me.
3. AA default builds:
Its really confusing restarting the game with 100's of AA points and 8 screens of stuff all of it looking kind nice. An ability to just pick a default build of AAs that are assigned for a play style - aoe dps, dd dps, cc, heals, tank etc doesnt have to be the best, doesnt have to be nearly as good as min/max but it removes a headach from restarting
4. Reduce the Clutter:
There are too many skills that all look identical - my warlock seems to have 7 or so green aoe abilites, really they clutter up an entire bar - do i need that many - I dont think so - 1 aoe debuff, 1 aoe dot, 1 aoe dd, sorted. same with the rest of the skills, make them actually different and a choice to use, too often it doesnt seem to make a hoot what order of skills buttons i hit in questing, that makes my skills feel pointless.
5. Returning people guild:
Put all returning people into a "Hero's Return" guild upon loging in - comunity is really lacking for many of us who are dipping our toes back into EQ2 waters - having a guild right at the start would put me in contact with simillar lost and confused poeple and give the feel of a much more alive world.
6. Get some group content:
Right from the outset on the newbie zones get a heroic mob and encourage people to group up for a heroic battle that drops legendary - it worked really well in the old newbie isle, its a chance to see EQ2 shine.
7. Unlock class/races packs based on time played/plat:
Reward people for sticking about - even if they arent paying a sub they are making the world feel alive, and most poeple will drop a few coins into a game as they settle in - dont put great content locked away behind real cash.
8. Remove the most annoying locks:
Remove the gold cap, broker lock out, bag locks, bank locks - these are just annoying - I wont buy anything to unlock these, they are core mechanics of your game - they just annoy people - do not make people pay cash for core compoenets - mounts, fluf, decorations, game boosts, snazzy looking wardrobe gear, pets - thats where you can make some cash from ftp.

mikehgbates wrote:

FWIW, a lot of people on the LOTRO forums dislike the FTP model, because they believe that the LOTRO Store is constantly "in their face" & precisely cheapens the experience. Personally, I'm neutral regarding it -- I like the fact that you can earn Turbine Points simply by playing the game, but I dislike greatly being reminded every time I've earned a few, or that I can now go to their store to spend said points.
It also needs to be said that if you're a free player, you can expect to grind a very, very great deal to get points. In some ways that's not so bad, because you're getting XP, loot, faction in some cases, titles, & so forth in addition to the points, but once you see how many points you need to unlock any significant content, it gets overwhelming.
It's not a bad F2P model; it's a different one. In some ways I like it better than EQ2 -- for example, you can purchase a gold cap unlocker from the Turbine store, & also additional storage bags -- & in other ways I like it less, as, for example, any time you enter an area you don't have unlocked you'll get a pop-up window telling you that you need to purchase that area from the Turbine store before you can do anything in it. It's also somewhat confusing at times, because if you previously had picked up quests or deeds within an area you don't have unlocked, you can do those quests -- but you can't do the following quests in that line, because you don't have the area unlocked. The same is true of deeds, which are one of the primary methods of getting TPs -- each deed comes in 2 steps, & if you'd previously opened up the 5-point deed, you can finish it, but you won't get the 10-point deed until you've unlocked the area. It's quite often frustrating.

Freejazzlive wrote:

I'm not a freeloader. Myself and others would like to check things out before we drop money into the game again. Anything that hinders that is a barrier the dev team needs to remove.
My options are 1) pay for and play EQ2, or 2) pay for and play something else. If you get in the way of option 1 then it's not too difficult to go with option 2.
EQ2 is over 8 years old, and has made them a ton of money already. It's a smart business play to not gain some money in an attempt to get players to return. Once players come back they're likely to spend some money, but if you're keeping them away then you gain nothing.

The disparity when mentoring is a stumbling block to a higher level playing with a low one, but some do use mentoring as a PL method and are happy with it like that.
So..
Why not have the 2 forms of mentoring actually produce 2 variations of mentoring. Mentoring via the chrono mages could be kept exactly as it is today, but change the mentoring someone to more closely resemble the level being mentored. Those who want to PL could continue to use the chrono mages, those who really want to play with a low level character played by a new player without making that new player feel like they're not contributing could do so as well.

1) A sensible plat cap; not being able to buy Vendor mounts from FOUR expansions ago on a level capped character is plain stupid.
2) If you want to be a F2P game, then do it. Sell a means to unlock any and all restrictions.
3) Remove about 75% of the spells and abilities. For example, do priests really need 3-4 'until cancelled' group buffs, two direct heals, two group heals, a class based heal, multiple specialty heals, three cures, and quite a few specialty buffs/heals. Not to mention 10-12 attacks!
4) STOP INCREASING THE LEVEL CAP!
5) Let people play the way they want to play. Scalable raids and dungeons, keep the story out of gear grinding. How many years are you going to create content only a tiny minority will see. Although at this point they may be the majority. :shrug:
6) Greatly narrow the power differential.

I think the worst thing that happens to returning players is the strip naked part. It prevents them from actually playing the game when they try to come back to play the game...
I agree that giving returning players enough gear unlockers for a single toon or some other method that allows them to actually PLAY their toon is probably the single change that is most likely to keep returning players... or at least changing it will remove the stumbling block that is driving them away befor they even have a chance to decide if they'd like to play again.