Supporting Returning Players and ideas for Refer-a-Friend?

free 1 time server transfer, because, if you find out a friend is playing, the chances you are both on the same server are VERY slim.
discount for multiple accounts.
if you are gone for a year, you get a 'play free as gold for 1 week'.
though very little of this will matter, because, currently, new players have to buy DoV, AoD and this new xpansion to get to lvl 95. It's getting too expensive to buy everything needed.

Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:

That is actually a good point. Up-to-date class information can be hard to find, and classes are not like they were in 2004. Even though people often have differences of opinion on what is "best", having something to look at, as a starting point, will still help returning players out, and get them thinking about how they want to build their character.

With such, if your idea came to fruition, I would volunteer to take care of the Templar class. I could easily collate some info for aspiring/returning Templars to peruse. In addition, the sticky-threads are grossly out of date, and things have been very snarky/non-constructive lately. Facilitating some housekeeping without overburdening the MODs would help.

Finora@Everfrost wrote:

I agree 100% with Finora. Having played this game for 8 years and having several high level characters with gear I worked hard to to get its very frustrating to get on and not be able to actually play them without having to pay quite a bit of money to unlock gear on all of them. That is what has kept me from playing the last few months and why I've moved on for now to GW2. I think rewarding your loyal players who have subscribed for several years with a few unlockers would go a long way. I know it would definitely encourage me to come back.

Welp I don't have much input into the RAF feature. I enjoyed the one before but would have to be modified for free to play and all so dunno.
I do have some thoughts however on the "new player" ideas.
A lot of issues I hear people have and even myself and my friends is lack of population and playing an MMO solo as I discussed in my thread about MMOs dying. I did have a great idea I think I /feedbacked when the dungeon finder came out. A lot of issue with any game, outside of WoW, is population and especially older MMOs where they get top heavy. You guys at SoE have all the tools currently in the game to alleviate this problem and haven't done it for some reason. If you can bring your entire playerbase together, sort of like you guys did with the battlegrounds and dungeon maker (good job there), then you win at game design imo. That goes for any multiplayer game.
Why haven't you guys taken your dungeon finder, made it cross server, open it up to queue for any instance/contested dungeon at your level and every dungeon below that level? You have the dungeon finder, you have the mentor system, all you have to do is make it cross server and put in an auto mentor feature when joining whatever level the instance is, directly before zone in in the code. You would open up your entire game and your entire population to all the content. Solving the lack of population problem, utilizing all content, allowing the higher levels to help the newer lower levels (offer some kind of bonus for randoming all dungeons), and bringing in new players with all that appeal.
Just a small suggestion I think would liven up the entire game and something you have all the tools to do but for some reason haven't? lol.

Finora@Everfrost wrote:

^So much this. It feels like a ripoff to pay for items we've already paid for via subscription, and is just as bad as having to unlock race/class for old characters. It's hard enough to remember the controls of a game you haven't played in a while, but having to do it naked is crummy.
Please reconsider the more annoying, petty aspects of the F2P system. For me, it seems like a Gold-or-Nothing mentality. I felt many restrictions were based off the Guide Program's rules; 20pp at level 90 is ridiculous. I was so angry having all my foci adorns rebated on my return, and all that money deleted. Do we need a money limitation? Mail/Broker? Mail for instance - anything that hurts the social aspect makes a player feel isolated. Who would use a broker token to sell if they can't even keep the gold, or buy only to have to unlock? So many trivial details in the broker alone that I didn't touch it. How does any of this immerse us into "Life on Norrath", as opposed to constantly reminding your players of the money meta-game?
The air of desperation in these petty annoyances were a lot more apparent to me than the game itself, and I found myself quitting again... even after "preparing" my account for silver to see if I could stand it.
Someone mentioned a lower subscription rate. As a comfortable medium, you could give additional benefits to gold but offer a cheaper sub without SC infusements. Maybe offer the cheaper subscription as a Veteran Reward? I know a lot more casual people could afford $5 and justify it for a game they can't/don't play everyday. Even Netflix has streaming-only set at $8 and that's good entertainment value.
Look at the model of League of Legends, which was based from the ground up F2P and really successful. Different type of game, but there's things in EQ that might be done similarly with an open mind. There you can buy rune-pages to play different types of champions. Imagine the 'Recklessness' stance for fighters as... not a whole new class, but as a template you could buy to fill a different role in a group, as needed. There I spend money on skins because they're fantastic and desireable - maybe EQ2 outfits of various famous characters like Firiona Vie, Queen Bayle, Ethernauts? Maybe something a little more dynamic than Heritage armor. I love heritage stuff, but I feel it could be taken much further. Player Studio, if not terribly restricted, will actually show this as people take it in fantastic, dynamic directions.
I'd love to invite my sister to play with RAF, and hope the old system for it is still here, or comes back. Different appearances for the bonus mount would be nice since she's kinda girly. Give the new player a list of 5 people (group) they can port directly to, and share the XP bonus with? Kinda like a 'close friends' list. Maybe just 5 attunable items they can give to close friends. Like T-Mobile's anytime friends, haha.
Dungeon maker is a fantastic asset that can sustain the game indefinitely, but needs to be a staple instead of a purchased expansion. Give the ability to tag dungeons with one-word descriptors, like Little Big Planet's player-made levels. That way the top-rated dungeons can be sorted between simple/fast runs and the more creative, elaborate ones.

Avarice@Antonia Bayle wrote:

ok i gotta say my peace on this, because i see this argument so often. here is my stance on it: if they lower the price for gold, thats like saying the game is dying or not worthwhile. that may be the opinion of some people, but im sure theres thousands like me who still love the game as much as day 1, years ago. we can nitpick this and that and the other, but when we start getting like "well they didnt GIVE me this" or "this gear is mine i earned it" ...that may be true, but you dont pay their electric bill, server costs, u dont pay their employees, u didnt put in thousands or probably millions of dollars im sure they have. you paid in the past for that subscription. that subscription let you do whatever you want, play whatever u want, wear whatever you want. free to play, however, is not "play everything free and complete, with no rules or limits" im not an soe fanboy or staff. i dont even currently have a job. when i do, i pay my sub. i bought a year when i had money. i turn alt accounts gold at times by trading for game time/sc codes with plat. where theres a will, theres a way. nobody in life is likely to hand you everything you'd like, for free.
this isnt targeting any one person, this is my opinion on pay or dont pay, in general.
it's an a la carte game now. you pay as much or as little as you wish. you pay to remove whatever restrictions you dont wish for. if you pay the same price you always paid ($15/month), you are gold and how many restrictions have you, then? zero. if i paid for cable for 8 years straight, and then i see them offer someone a month of service free for a brand new customer, with signup, does this mean i should get my cable for free for life? no? but i paid! all those years! the analogy is, if you want entertainment, your way, you pay. otherwise, you be happy you can play it permanently for free, but accept the restrictions. past paid members were turned silver for free, when it went f2p. there is a vast amount of content that is playable under silver, wearing mastercrafted gear. no you probably cant wear mc gear and go beat the bejesus out of rallos zek....but come now. not everything in life is free. things cost money to develop and maintain.
but i still stand by the whole "give players a week, 2 weeks of gold time, or unlockers, to get them back in the game." give them a taste of less restrictions. ease the transition, and let THEM decide if its worth it to stay, and either pay for more unlocks or for gold etc. its a great game. play however u wish to. but please, dont expect them to work and develop games for free or dirt cheap. theres tons of ways literally anyone could play this unrestricted or in a manner theyre comfy with, for little or reasonable cost.

oh and, im 50/50 on this whole theory "make old zones more challenging by 90's that mentor down, by nerfing them horribly so the zone's a challenge" ...hey that sounds fun, but if u force that, it could turn out bad. there could be tons of people out there that go wait...i worked my butt off to get to 90 or 92...i LIKE being able to tear thru old zones, feeling like a BOSS! i been there, done this, im just trying to level my guildy fast. Hey! there's another thought! if you cant find groups, why not join a guild? most guilds will help someone level, group with them etc, if they are polite and arent standing there screaming gimme,gimme, pl me! if you cant find someone to group with from your own guild, you need to leave it and find another guild. truth.
i also happen to feel a big problem i notice these days is, too many people are all about the pl. even ones that havent learned their classes, or the game, for that matter. if you take your time at least once, grind a toon on your own or in small groups or with merc, and challenge yourself, read your attacks, set your hotbars etc, you will learn so much. noobs often give up because the noob quests in their started area, gearing their toon, etc is too complicated for them. everyone wants to be handed level 92 and awesome gear and feel all tough, and many of them never worked their way up to that. pl is fine for vets that can play any class and understand game and attack mechanics etc. we seen most of the game, we've put in work, now we want a new class to get to 92, or maybe im an altaholic and got 5 zerkers and i want this one to be 92 cuz a fae zerk is just so ironically awesome. peh...what am i ranting about. i must be tired.

Avarice@Antonia Bayle wrote:

I absolutely agree with this. One of the biggest hurdles I have in convincing friends to come back is that the Free-to-play model has very little appeal to old players because of the sheer annoyance of being unable to equip old items or use things they were used to. I really think some happy medium would be preferable, probably with a lot of locked/purchasable content; make people pay for new things when old items/zones are obsolete anyway.

The point I made was that the game is currently binary for me and my friends. If you pay, it's fun... If you don't, it's not. Far, far better games & services exist than EQ F2P, and there's no incentive for me to populate the world on any level unless I'm fully investing. The problem I believe is that EQ's only looking at competition from MMOs when they should be looking at ALL games/entertainment to see what their typical customer is allowing into a monthly budget, and base their subscription price on that. If the game was truly as flexible you say, there'd be more levels of investment than all or nothing.
But I also provided ideas for features and additions that have nothing to do with subscription. Any game that has F2P needs to first be viable & fun as the first goal, not nitpicking which features to be stingy with. THEN you create incentive to spend money. Doing this backwards is what has caused the disparity between this and other free games to begin with.
As for the rest, yes I do believe this view counts here because my sub did pay for all those things. Moreso if you consider that during my long tenure, I was organizing events and providing content for many other people as a roleplay guildleader. Thus, when one user quits, or returns, it can have a huge rippling effect on the value of this game for many other players. Players provide content by virtue of spending their time and lives in a game, and no one should forget that. Perhaps the fact that so many give the argument is reason to start taking it seriously.
ArtemisClyde wrote:

The raison i left is that i was always playing on my own ( Guilds keep saying ) come along we group play togetter
DANG....BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ wrong anwer.... you get a group or 2 in the first week then DANG..... you end up solo..
Dont have good armor for that instance.... were do i get them ? in the instance Dang.........
After mounths like 6 on my own i left the game.... every guild are the same ( group of friends that know each others for mounths, years ) and you need to try to make your place in ther ........Dang

When people stop playing a game like EQ2 they do so for a reason. To get them back you have to address those reasons.
If it is something like too much stuff going on in real life there is little you can do about that.
If it is cost then you have already addressed that issue. I'm sure most former players already know about the Free-to-Play option.
To that point, the worst part for a returning player is logging in and seeing that you can't wear any of your gear. A simple solution for this is to give returning players 15 or so free item unlockers. This will allow them to equip their gear. It's a one time bonus for coming back.
If the reason for leaving was grouping issues I'm not sure that problem is fixed. Being able to quickly find a group is an important part of playing. Dungeon Finder needs to work perfectly every time.
With the above two issues I think you have a majority of the lost players. Tell them they can come back and play for free. They'll get item unlockers for free so they can equip the gear they need to play. And tell them they can jump right in a find a group right away.
That said, now you have to motivate me to refer-a-friend.
MMOs are social games by design. So, getting more people playing should be motivation in itself. However, I don't want to look like a fool.
If I invite a friend I don't want to hear, 'they haven't fixed this bug yet?' or 'good old SoE. Big on promises short on delivery.' In short, fix the bugs. Make it a priority.
If you want to reward me for inviting friends or returning players to come back with some actual item, then I suppose some SC credit system would work.
If a player has been inactive for X months and they return based on my invite, for every Y dollars they spend on either subs or the Marketplace I get Z% in SC.

Go study what LOTRO did when it went F2P and copy that.

Gravy wrote:

Personally i think they should offer former subscribers which aren't playing the game a 14 days of unrestricted play if they login within a specified time period.
as for RAF they aren't likely to give you a cut just because you brought someone back, why would they want profits to be leeched by the playerbase. use RAF if you want people to come back and not because you want to gain something from it.

General_Info wrote:

Please correct me of i am wrong, but if my memory serves, the person who issued a successful RAF would recieve a free month of subscription time, if the RAF target subscribed to the game for a pre-defined period (either 1 or 3 months).

So while I dont think a % of all sales over the lifetime of the target is required, some sort of bonus for the RAF issuer is not out of the question, based on history?

IMO, a free month is quite the reasonable reward.

IMHO the Saryrn Deathcharger was a fantastic reward for refer-a-friend. But today, returning players are faced with several challanges that include exp and many more game aspects. So here are my recommendations as a returning player myself...
1. Saryrn Deathcharger - turn it in to an npc and he gives you an Ethereal Crimson Nightmare Pegasus with 20% experience instead of the 10% you had on the Saryrn Deathcharger. This introduces the returning player (level 85+) to flight in EQ2. Have a window pop up that tells them they now have access to flight and how to use it. Maybe consider lowering the flight level to 75? Start the turn in quest with a /claim item.
2. Some kind of reward for guilds that take returning players. Dont laugh... I had a hell of a time finding a good raid guild so that I could see Skyshrine raid content. Add some incentive. A guild item, guild experience, a CoV ameneity, etc.
3. A special merc quest. This quest comes from a /claim item. Once the merc is active, hail him to start a questline. The merc knows the specific POI's of each expansion since DoF. Going to each of the PoIs gives you an update and shows you content you missed. Finished each expansion quest gives substantial experience and a very nice reward. Perhaps your choice of a free Elite Mercenary.
4. Merge Skyshrine with Destiny of Velious! Include all previous expansions! Buying both of them just to get back in the game and see what I missed almost cost you a customer. I have two accounts and that was an unexpected expense that I didn't want to pay. Perhaps some kind of discount or something would have made he decision easier. It's all about money in todays economy!
5. Station Cash - It's virtual. If it's just another small thing you need to encourage returning players, use it. Revenue is more important right?
6. Email, email, email!!! Tell old players what rewards await their return!

I think there are too many options. Membership is all over the place and just plain confusing. Someone needs to make a decision re: what EQ2 is going to be and just commit.
Also I wish the old system of choosing base classes and then specializing (like tradeskills still does) was never taken out. I think it helped new players to learn the world and how the classes work. As for returning players, I just did this and found that there were so many changes I didn't know what to do with my high level chars, so I started a new one just to get the tutorials and learn to play again. It would be nice if there was an obvious place to go to find out what the current rules are, and I don't mean "read 100 pages of Update Notes on the forum"! Something well laid out and easy to follow or a YouTube video even...
IMHO friends will either play or not. Expecting players to go out and browbeat friends into buying product X is slimey, like "friends" who are always trying to sell you vitamins or makeup. Don't go there. I read this as a way to advertise on the cheap. If you want marketing, buy ads on TV like WoW does. Or at least get a few reviews on Todd Kenrick's show. If not, make the game great. The game could sell itself based on the strength of the exerience. Players will tell their friends about EQ2 if they love it enough to do so and their friends will play if the game is great and wonderful. Do that instead.

I don't think you can fix refer a friend without fixing some issues with the game that will get them to stay playing,
Change the way ftp works with what vanguard did, allow anyone to play any character to 20 to see if they like it and then allow a purchase.
Free month of gold to returning players
Fix mentoring, getting to 90 in a day of mentoring is ridiculous why group when you can be 90 tomorrow.
I'd like to see a new game+, allow your character to retire back to 1, with his name, equipment, and skills intact (just use the mentor to rebalance his gear till he gets back to 90), double the xp needed to level, give a minor bump in power enough to make it useful but not enough to have to rebalance everything based on it, give them some other bonuses for achieving making it back to max level, titles, houses, mounts etc that don't effect game play. Now you'll have people regrinding alts back through the game for a little more power it'll take longer for them to do it, some of us will take advantage of playing through dungeons we didn't get to, and hopefully give more group options to new people without having to know someone that'll mentor to play with you. Plus once you make it back to max level, new game++ tripple the xp requirement for crazy people.
You can then tie some refer a friend bonuses like when your playing with your friend for the first month you don't get an xp penalty for starting it.
Thats my crazy idea for the day, if you use it I require you to buy me a drink in vegas as compensation.

1.) Get rid of the marketplace, put new stuff directly into the game weekly rather than on the smedbucks market.
2.) Fix the known bugs, improve framerates, and yeah nothing "NEW" needs to be done, just fix what's already here and this will by far be the best game out there.
3.) Don't take it out on Smokejumper yeah he is the name behind the changes however he is not the drive, the beancouters are up his backside like white on rice I am sure, I think he honestly does have a passion for the game but is trying everything he knows to meet the demands of the higher ups and make both the players and the boss as happy as can be. I do not envy him or his job.
4.) In short, you want people to return then give those of us that are left something to boast about rather than complain about.
5.) I do a lot of complianing that I pay my sub every month and if I want the cool looking mounts or gear or furniture or or or then I gotta pay extra. and guess what? My friends don't play because of my complaining.
6.) Now if instead I went to my friends and said oh guess what new items got added to the game today? Check out this mount that is a new quest today, or look at this Item unattuner that the gnomes mailed to me today, or yeah, you get the idea, turn around the word of mouth with what is already here and you will see players return.


Oh yeah a a fuel suppy depot for our homes would help too ;-)

~Avianna

Tons of replies already, so will (try to) keep this simple for devs.
Just some quick background: I played EQ for 6 years and EQ2 for 3 years, and then other MMO's in between (10 years total). I raided hardcore in a Worldwide top 10 guild for about 2 years in EQ1, then quit. I returned to EQ2 about 2 months ago and started fresh on a Berserker (new server, etc).

Suggestion/Observation #1: Levels come so quickly now that you pretty much outgrow any gear within a day or two. It would be very helpful for new players if it were possible to get gear that scaled as you level, similiar to how Heirloom gear works in WoW. Except instead of that only being for new players with alts, make it for new or returning players (as semi-rare worlddrops or crafted, not freely given to them). Make this gear scale up to the previous expansions max lvl.

Suggestion/Observation #2: The grind from 1-60 is fine, and pretty quick, but once you hit 60 things slow down tremendously. On my berserker I could just grind dungeons from 1-60 (not a fan of questing), but then 60-90 that was pretty much unrealistic, so I was forced to quest. One of the big reasons it was tough to grind at 60+ was that you got less xp per kill AND the mobs got much harder than they were pre 60. This was very disappointing to me, because I love to AE pull/slaughter mobs, but that became completely impractacle to do. You want to keep a new or returning player's leveling options open, not restrict them in how they can play.

Suggestion/Observation #3: Mentoring is not working as it was originally meant to. I love the whole idea behind mentoring, I get to group with friends no matter what lvl they are and help them out. The issue is that my berserker now 1 shots every mob when I am mentored, I'm talking from newbie zones to Sebilis I can just do 1 AE and 8 mobs are dead. This is not fun, sure it's great for PLing but it does not allow my friend to be able to play. It simply lets him sit back and watch me own mobs, and that only makes the leveling process even worse for him when I am not around. Once you get a taste of that kind of leveling you want it all the time.

One free race package and class package unlock.