Summoners: Broken Mechanics

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Aniathor, Jan 17, 2014.

  1. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    I completely agree with the OP. Everything we do is dependent on our pets, and when our stats don't get shared with the pets, you might as well not have even bothered with that bit of equipment. I don't realistically expect to beat the assassin in the raid parse, but I'd like to do solid, T2 damage, chasing the heels of the wizards.
  2. Belton Member

    /agree. We shouldn't "beat" them so to say. But we shouldn't be getting out parsed by over a million by them. we are "DPS" classes. Then allow us to DPS to our max potential isn't that why they made pet stats share? But now there are so many restrictions it's ridiculous.
  3. Ainaree Well-Known Member

    Good luck, Summoners. We went to 60+ pages of shaman feedback for fixes and are still in the same state. Your problem is obvious so I hope they are able to find some time in their busy schedules to give it attention.
    Treiko likes this.
  4. Darkon Well-Known Member

    It's a known issue and it's a high priority. Perhaps it'll be even a higher priority after this post. Well worded and I sympathize with your plight summoners/beastlords.
  5. black11b New Member

    SOE please look in to this please
  6. black11b New Member

  7. Sylke Well-Known Member

    Agreed with the OP. These items (and more) need to be fixed to properly apply their affects for pet classes.
  8. Grisweld Member

    I dont play a conjy but dont understand how conjys are broke. Ive ran with one from sovin nai nai on my server who does 3.5mil plus single target. Aoe fights were 6-10mil. So... whats broken?
  9. Grisweld Member

    Btw this is in halls/labs. I havent even seen a sin push that out single in a group. A sin from the same guild was doing 2.5-2.9mil.
  10. Buffrat Well-Known Member

    1, Sovin Nai's assassin is trash.

    2. Maybe you should read the thread to see what's broken.
  11. Grisweld Member

    I did read the thread but honestly if conjys are able to obtain these numbers without above fixes... what would happen if they were fixed. They would be crazy op and then the nerf bat would start swinging. Then we would have another broken summoner thread going the other way. 3.5mil single is not shabby at all. And why hate on perp... hes a decent guy.
  12. Aniathor Member

    Compared to sorcerers and a couple preds, Conj DPS is falling flat on its face, and it's only going to get worse as the gear gets better. Just because you think 3.5 mil isn't shabby doesn't change this lol. Our sorcs are easily doing 6-8mil on avg in that zone. There was once a time when we were competitive, and we still would be if gear shared properly with our pets, which is what the class was promised.

    Deep in ToV raid content, a guild needs every bit of this type of dps if not more! Just because you've had your first rendezvous with a higher end summoner doesn't mean they can always push those numbers. Some of my biggest issues with the class right now is how certain raid encounters completely disable us from doing HALF of our dps in the form of the mob being immune to our pets, or killing them all instantly.
    Veta and Zelox like this.
  13. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    (1) It's not just conjurors, this is both types of Summoners (i.e., necros also).

    (2) Summoners are supposed to be T2 DPS. This means that while we should be doing less damage than Predators and Sorcerers, on named fights, we should be out-parsing Enchanters, Bards, Tanks, and Healers.

    (3) In fights where everyone is in really high end gear, if the Summoners' gear isn't correctly sharing stats with pets, then we are only doing half the damage we're supposed to be doing, and it makes Baby Jeebus cry when Enchanters, Bards, Tanks, and Healers outparse the Summoner.

    (4) Aniathor's points about pets of all types being flattened by AOEs and other effects are extremely valid when we are talking about current raid content. I try to jerk my pet back out of range of AOEs when we have to joust, but I have to watch and get out of the poison fog, while jousting away from the add's AOE, while doing my top DPS, AND I have to keep summoning my pet to me in safe areas because the poor dumb creature doesn't know enough to move out of boiling acid or whatever it is this raid. Remember, when the pet dies, all your DPS goes down the toilet until you get one recast or pulled out of dimensional storage and rebuffed.
    Charlice likes this.
  14. Treiko Active Member

    I do not raid, but just running advanced solos and heroics I have a hard enough time keeping my pet alive... there are some times no matter what I do, I am casting the pet enough during a fight that eventually I stop trying and pretend I am a subpar warlock til the fight is over. Even if it meant a slight reduction in the pet's overall damage (let's not get crazy about it though) I think it would be an even trade-off to make it immune to damage. Everyone else's damage is guaranteed for the most part... for example, auto attack doesn't just poof.... ice comets still plummet from the skies... why should our main source of damage have sketchy attendance? While we have the pet death prevent (one charge, 5 min recast) and dimensional storage, they are not optimal choices for DPS. They are tempting... but IMO all that will do is slightly reduce how often we end up recasting pets, not eliminate the problem.

    *grammatical edit*

    also to clarify the pet damage immunity would not apply to the tank pet, but for the DPS pets i think something along the lines of what the channeler pet is would work fine. Any thoughts on that?
    Xillean, Sigrdrifa and Aniathor like this.
  15. Aniathor Member

    Just to clarify, it's not only AOE's that are the problem. My post was referring specifically to detrimental effects which are applied to the entire raid/group, most of which are not preventable and also not effected by range . An example most people would be familiar with is the named before the last in Dominion, Geradin the Grotesque. It applies a curse to the whole group nearly on incoming called Grotesque Curse. It inflicts disease damage if not cured and I have just had to become accustomed to my first pet always dieing on that mob after I run out of saves for it because it ticks extremely hard on a pet with little to no nox resists, and not as much HP as the effect was designed for. If it was limited to this one fight, I would bug report it and move on, but almost all of the harder raid content have similar effects, and the majority of them cannot be cured, prevented, or healed through when on a pet.

    AE auto attack is specifically a problem for dumbfire pets on a fight like Ragefire x2. There are a slew of adds up that all ae auto attack and if we cast our dumbfires on ragefire, there is no possible way for them to avoid being ae auto'd, a guaranteed one shot for dumbfires who position themselves directly behind their target with no consideration for any other mobs around them.

    Another problem happens on the lower platform on the Grendish fight in ToV (most have yet to see this). As soon as dumbfire pets are cast on the dragon, or the adds you have to burn, archers 1 shot them because they are the closest proximity.

    The most common cause of death for my pets happens when any mob stops to cast a spell, they will often quickly target the dumbfires because they are the closest thing to them, completely out of control of the tanks, and normal auto attacks land so quickly that it's instant death.

    I've encountered these things all too often in this expansion, and it's becoming ridiculous. If it were simply specific elements of fights that could be changed to fix things, I would suggest that, but the only reasonable fix would be a change to the pets themselves, not the encounters, otherwise the same thing is going to happen next expansion. It's frustrating enough that all pet classes have a huge portion of their dps not properly modified by the gear we are wearing, but to just have the spells rendered as useless makes me want to find something better to do with my time.
    Zelox, Xillean, zugbog and 1 other person like this.
  16. Treiko Active Member

    Dumbfires should be untargettable.. that would most likely do a lot to alleviate the problem of mobs swapping targets to them when casting. They only last a few seconds... I would rather they be resisted than have them wiped out cuz the mob farted in their direction. Oh the pets are up.. nevermind they are gone now.
  17. Darkon Well-Known Member

    No. They should not be untargettable.

    Just cast them around the mob performing it's AoE's.
  18. Darkon Well-Known Member

    There's no room for 't2' dps. (sans brigand)

    Summoners have to be competitive with sorcerers or they'll simply be replaced by said sorcerers.
  19. Rasttan Member

    Why design classes based on the use of a pet and not give the pet or pets the survivability to be used effectively.
    It's an obvious bad oversight by the dev team.

    Treiko likes this.
  20. Aniathor Member

    What are we scouts now lol? Pretty dumb mechanic if you ask me, considering they were put in this game to balance dps based on them living.