Summoners are a real issue, please face it

Discussion in 'General TLE Discussion' started by Redlight, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. Redlight Well-Known Member

    It is absolutely not healthy for a game to have no class diversity. This happens when a class has the most survivability of all classes and on top of that the most DPS. Fix pets already? This is like dragonfire times two. Besides, there is more money to be made from classes who get output from multiple abilities, over a master pet.
    Sixgauge likes this.
  2. Pixistik Don't like it? You're not alone!

    Summoners are fine as is.
  3. Siren Well-Known Member

    You are really being over dramatic.

    Their pets have been really nerfed down compared to Nagafen's beta-- which is where the entire current template of gear and class changes and nerfs came from. You can tell that people know Summoners have been nerfed, because the launch version of Nagafen has a lot more class diversity than it used to during its beta. You just don't see many Summoners now. During beta, pre-nerfs, it was completely a "World of Summoners: I hope you like pink!" scenario.

    Summoners go down hard and fast without their pets even on the PvE TL; they're really nothing without their pets to be honest. And in the case of PvP, people just ignore the pet and take them down relatively easily.
    Elskidor! and Breanna like this.
  4. Sixgauge Well-Known Member

    The devs know summoners are OP on Kaladim. I think they are just waiting for future expansions for it to automatically resolve itself via new AAs and spells, because that's easier than doing work. Conjies are trash on FG, don't know if that's going to apply here too after a few expansions.
  5. Venser Active Member

    Not having a hard time keeping up on my swashbuckler. The class does some great damage, nice ae (summoner) but this isnt new news. I dont believe summoners are the meta, it just looks like it because it's not too difficult to do. If you had to buy the summoner to play it I could see a balance issue for sure. But if we nerf them now and come Kos-rok they just start to slowly drop off. Especially in rok with the myth pet not being great due to -60 fervor.
  6. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    Summoners seem to be really broken right now but they really aren't. From what i've been seeing they are winning on the "parse" in terms of the magical number spreadsheet/breakdown.

    But in reality sorcs with ice lash/curse plus their damage procs are actually topping every zonewide from what I can see.

    As Sixgauge said, Summoner AA's suck compared to sorc. By TSO you will have a 0% chance of ever beating a wizard/warlock on any type of parse, if you do it's because of their group procs/buff difference.

    UT is much more beneficial on a warlock, even a wizard than a necro.

    TC doesn't transfer to the pet as well.

    So single target buffs are moot on this class, and they don't offer a great group damage proc ability.
  7. kitleez Member


    It seems you really do not like necros. Ive seen necros dominate parses in TSO consistently but with animal and UT, and the other mages having similar buffs. Their group buff given by the scout pet once you hit TSO is nice too.

    But right now the pet can tank epics pretty easily, and summoners can solo any triple up with no kiting and extremely fast. There is no other class that can come close to the efficiency and skill it takes to solo mobs on a summoner.
  8. Kalika Well-Known Member

    No he just look form a raid only perspective, and consider probaly rightfully that wizzlock are better. But if you solo or group with random Joes or actually explore the content and if for you raids are just this little extra thing you need to get your prisma/mythical then a summoner is way more fun.

    I like summoners as they are, great in groups, great in duo, great solo. I like how they made sacrifice useful.

    I don t farm with her, i would rather group and even mentor rather than pissing of peoples.
  9. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    No I just know how every other guilds parse looked in every tier on fallen gate, and I know that me/our warlock were absolutely destroying every other player parse wise. I also know that warlocks benefit from UT more, and furies are defunct in RoK onwards so who really cares about animal form, and Bolster was better on a wizard until Manaburn was nerfed, but it required me to shift a Jcap to a necro, which in turn was less dps; because of the loss of confront fear potency overall. So we just kept in the wizard (me) so I could better face tank aoes and firestorm harder. Assuming you're making an optimal raid. I raid optimally, therefore I put one necro in because they are decent unbuffed.

    The scout pet buff is also moot, running a necro proved no beneficial improvements to our avoidance report in terms of the stoneskin, and agro was already not an issue with how Abhorrent Verse worked and my myriad of dethreats.

    I saw every parse, I would love for you to post a necro even COMING CLOSE to what me and our warlock was doing, including outgoing on Ice lash/curse; i'd rather buff the illusionist before I would ever buff a necro.

    Summoner's will not ever be better than Sorcs on TLE unless they seriously overtune them, which isn't happening right now even in t5 when summoners are their best.

    Until TC starts to convert to the pet, UT transfers to the pet, and they give a decent groupwide proc damage to the group, summoners will NEVER be better than sorcs. Ice lash/Curse was actually topping our summoner's parses on every zonewide due to the encounters in TSO/SF. It's quite comical to look at actually.

    I can care less about soloing content in t5, as everything is already severely undertuned. At least with soloing, the class has one strong point.
    The best player with the most gear/buffs will shine. If you don't have good sorcs, buff the necro.
    firecracker likes this.
  10. Zenji Well-Known Member


    Actually right now, CoD is hitting like a wet noodle. It is doing less damage per proc than Detonation from Shimmering plate gear off of Xigg.

    I get your point though, if you take the proc damage the Sorc gives to the mage group, their effective damage is significantly better than that of a Summoner. However, most don't look past "who is on top of the parse".

    Summoners right now are out performing other classes at an individual level by about 15-20%. When you mix that with how well the classes' kit is at soloing, you get the out cry on the forums.

    Even though about half the classes in T5 can solo the same things Summoners can, they aren't quite as brain dead easy to do it on.

    I do think Summoners damage should have been brought down a peg for T5, IF the dev team was capable of reverting that nerf come KoS.

    At this point though, I don't see it worth the effort of nerfing/balancing classes in T5 unless they have it in before Splitpaw / Bloodline comes out next month. Everything else is cleared, half a dozen guilds or more have Prismatics. People can 2-3 group every x4 in the game other than contested Vox, and we are seeing 24 man bot armies pulling that now lol.
  11. Seth Well-Known Member

    Welll when Summoners are nerfed everyone will complain about assassins. Im calling it early.
  12. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    CoD was doing over 300-400 group wide damage per warlock on Nagafen on a zonewide in Spirits of the Lost. Putting all three of our warlocks over the summoners. Even the wizard's ice lash was doing around the same. Either your warlock's aren't hitting it at the right times, or your group doesn't know what buttons to press to maximize it.

    I just feel as if nerfing a class will have less than desired effects later on, as balance won't return to a state that is feasible.
  13. Zenji Well-Known Member


    I think it is just throwing people off on the value of some things since 90% of linked mobs die before the 12 seconds of CoD finishes. When fights last longer, it is easier to get a good read on how impactful somethings are.

    I agree that nerfing summoners now should only be on the table if they can undo it later on.
  14. Bydekm New Member

    The issue with summoners isn't dps, it's their pets' unreal survivability. Necromancers are keeping all heroic named in OOLS on lockdown solo.
  15. Bella222 Active Member

    Why do people want to ruin things for others? Every class has their good and bad points. It has taken me years on live to learn to play my necro well. Raid parses are not everything. Many paying customers do not raid or seldom raid. If you don't like your class, change it. I have done that many times. The problem is solo content that all of a sudden changes to killing a heroic mob or mobs in the middle of the quest line. Like the lightstone quest. Who can solo General Drull and all his mobs? And there are other quest lines like that. Wizards and warlocks can port and they have more multi-target attack spells at higher levels.
    Nele likes this.
  16. Sixgauge Well-Known Member

    People expect balance, not to have one class good at everything. It ruins things for others when they can't get access quest and HQ updates, due to summoners invising around farming heroic mobs designed for groups. Some classes can't even solo a green heroic or orange ^ I don't know why you brought up wiz ports, necro gets stuff too... hearts, feign death, rez...

    I play a necro too, so don't act like you speak for all summoners. It is not a real argument to say "I mastered my class and I can just stealth around dungeons cherry picking named while your group plows through trash to show up a day late and a dollar short." And then also pull off T1 dps in groups. The only valid argument on your side that I see is: "I'm ok with unbalanced classes because xyz and they could change over expansions." Or the always popular armchair project manager argument: "I'd rather the devs work on abc."
  17. Caela Well-Known Member

    I feel so inadequate. I play a conjy - and can't solo triple up heroics...
  18. Zenji Well-Known Member


    So can about a dozen other classes.

    I find it mildly entertaining that so many of you can't even agree why you think "summoners are OP".