Group ward often gets blown on another member of the group (not the tank) and still often does nothing to stop that person being 1 shot killed anyway. This is partly thanks to to how wards prioritise, and partly due to the amount of incoming damage (even on a single target) often being far greater than the size of the ward. So what's left for the tank? - a piddly single target ward, Torpor with it's stupid penalties and Oberon maybe if it's not on it's 1.25 minute cooldown which you can time to maybe cover every other "spike event" but not all of them. Fact is it's more effective to just spam cast single target direct heals and just cast ST wards hoping Grendish neck procs a stoneskin than it is to think the ST ward is going to do anything worthwhile for the tank. This is why the classes with the deathsaves and AE blockers hands down win for utility because of the sheer amount of group damage they prevent, this doesn't show on the heal parse however so leads the misconception people have with regards to shamans and healing "the mystic topped the heal parse they heal fine" junk. TShell completely blocking all damage from an AE is far superior to a group ward blocking 1/10th of it, same stands for equilibrium, anyone that cannot see this needs to take their blinkers off, and yes not all AE's are blockable...I get that. A templar/warden combo that know how to talk to each other and can coordinate stuff is rediculous OP for single target tank healing and group damage and 1 shot prevention. But to be honest, I don't care anymore, if people get 1 shotted by an AE they can't blame the shaman. If they don't know how to use gear items and their own abilities like turnstrike for eg if they want to permanently sit on the mobs' nuts and /afk autoattack and make a sandwich, there's nothing wards will do do help them, they just need to get better at playing their own class and stop thinking shamans will stop them dying to 1 shots like we did pre-ToV, maybe this was SOE's intention. Or, you know, people can interrupt spellcasts on alot of epic encounters now too which really wasn't possible much before ToV, but depending on people to actually do things their class excells at that outright prevent damage is a asking a bit much and it's just easier to expect the healer to heal through everything
While I agree with most of what you said in your post, this is just too much, there is no way a 1mil single target ward or a 3mil group ward is even close to being necessary. Lifting the CB penalty that has been placed on wards for as long as I can remember would not even come close to making shamans OP and our wards would still be a far cry from these rediculous numbers you postulated here, this was proven from the very small increase they allowed in December and to be honest I think is all that would be required without completely changing how the ward mechanic works. Plus it will affect all healers' wards not just shamans so inb4 waaaaaaambulance since templars and druids have the ability already to cast 1mil+ wards no worries. Making wards as reduculously huge as you presented would just put things back to where we were pre-ToV where almost no damage ever gets past a shaman unless the damage type is not wardable, SoE introduced the mechanics change to allow for spikey damage but as it stands it's just too spikey since group wards barely cover the damage on one person per tick let alone all 6 people per tick on an incurable DoT that keeps ticking before you can even recast another ward. I like the new mechanics for healing and I like that I have to use secondary heals more to compensate when wards are down but the fact is that shaman wards have not scaled appropriately to the incoming damage and are still lumped with this dumb CB penalty which affects our primary heals and quite simply has no place anymore.
Note I said 'or at least was'. I realize that with the current incoming damage amounts compared to ward-size things have changed. I usually partner with a mystic (who is also my husband) in the OT group, so I do understand wards being exploded effectively instantaneously most times. So fast that they frequently don't even appear in spell watchers. I DO notice when he gets targetted off the tank for some reason, his wards DO make a difference, but I can usually compensate if I know it's coming. Which is part of the reason we're put in the same group... communication that doesn't clog raid chat
Ahuh srry was replying to your comment in general rather than to interrogate what that you said. I remember you both from Kraytok's days in BGA when I casually raided with you guys on my alts, was fun times
Its not the base values when viewed across most of the level range , but the line graph increase. Because if the line charted for increase has any curve to it. Its going to eventually end up with pure vertical movement. Of course its not there yet with EQ2 , but we are experiencing a fairly steep line at the moment. Hence content being not even approachable by a smaller difference in level range , and the content getting trivialized sooner. The only ways to flatten the line is take from the top ( most people probably would not like that) Or add to the middle which is the belly of the line , probably the most work in keeping balance. And from a marketing stand point neither gives anything new to the customer base. So I think they'll just keep adding more variation to the game in an attempt to sell something new , while not worrying to much about where this freight train is taking them until its completely broke. And Imo , the ward mechanic is showing off this fundamental flaw more than anything by how it currently functions in the triangle relation between 1-HP pool 2-Incomming dmg 3-health replenish/dmg prevent. Boosting the ward will alleviate its current position on the list of severe problems , but it will never fix it.
The design concept with Wards has always been to alleviate extreme spike damage. That's what Wards *do*. When they can, for whatever reason, no longer perform that function they need to be looked at. In this case, they can no longer perform that function, and it's up to development to decide what direction to take them. Removing the CB penalty won't fix them, but it will give a baseline number from which a more appropriate plan can be formulated. Now, one thing that hasn't been mentioned, but is clearly a player in the overall balance scheme is the huge, massive tank HP buff that took place. Tanks now have 3 times (or more) the HP of every other role. I understand 'why' that was done, but it is a contributing factor to the mess that has become wards. One solution that just came to me is to base the size of the ward on the HP of the warded target. This would allow wards to scale appropriately to *any* target they are cast upon. This would likely require that a "group" ward be a true group ward, as I suggested earlier, where each person gets their own Ward. Tanks would get a ward appropriate to their HP; mages, etc would get the same.
Until yall can address the fundamental flaw in the way Wards Function, I do not see any “Fixing” Wards. This Flaw as I see it is: Wards are Death Saves if they are designed to be large enough to be of worth, or they are too small to be of worth. When this Flaw can be addressed then you will have a workable “Fix” to the problem of Wards. I do not have the ancer tho.
Another idea occurred to me over the weekend. Why not have both? Right now, "group" wards are a single, large ward designed to protect the group, but inevitably wind up protecting only a couple players. In situations where you've got a single tank taking all the damage, this function is desired as you want that tank to get maximum protection. The problem has always been for Shaman trying to solo heal groups, this functionality is fundamentally flawed as it allows many members of the group to be left without any protection. The solution was always seen as, ok, when I cast a group ward, give each player a smaller ward. The problem being that it then cripples the existing function of protecting a tank. Why not have both! Give Shaman two spells on the same timer. For instance, for Mystics, Umbral Warding is our current group ward. Change nothing. Give us a second spell, Umbral Wards, which decreases the value but gives each person in the group their own ward. Both spells share a re-use timer, so I can cast one or the other, but not both. This gives Shaman a boost where they really need it - solo healing a group - while not nerfing their value as tank focused healers. Obviously, the first problem that needs to be fixed is the crit bonus issue, because until that is fixed no additional fixes mean anything, however, I think the concept of two spells on one timer would go a long way toward fixing some historic weaknesses of the classes in question.
The problem with this is that the shamans stats don't come into play. Some freshly level 95 shaman who just got masters of wards could cast wards just as good as the shaman in all raid gear. PART of the equation could be targets health but you would have to use priest pot/cb or something as a multiplier. I still think they should just make wards WAY bigger but only capable of blocking a mid to high percentage of incoming damage. This opposed to potentially blocking all of it. Wards would stay up longer, be more useful, the playstyle would be closer to how shamans were pre-ToV, no issue of blocking damage outright and wards could be 'unlocked' to take full advantage of stats like CB without fear of being overpowered.
Sorry, yes, I didn't intend to imply that only the target HP would come into play, merely that this would be a better way to create a base value of the ward. So for instance, the Adept version of the ward might create a ward for 10% of the target's health . . . the Expert might give you 15% and the Master might give 20%. Just like any other spell, it's then modified by potency, crit and crit bonus. I am totally just throwing those number out, not in any way saying those numbers are right or wrong, I am simply trying to illustrate the point. Keep in mind that wards already do block a percentage, in a way. Wards take on the mitigation of their target. So a ward on a Guardian for instance is far more efficient at blocking physical damage than the exact same ward on an Illusionist might be. I would be very concerned about any mechanic that allowed wards to leak damage more than they already do. I really feel like the state of wards right now is bad. It's creating a situation where death prevents, stoneskins and "emergency" abilities are playing a larger and larger role in tanking than ever - much to the detriment of tank balance. Some tanks are just more suited to this than others and that creates stress. There really isn't a need for it. Fixing wards will do a lot more for the game than just balancing the priest classes, it will start to balance the tank classes as well.
Blocking a percentage of damage is more for an upper limit. The reason why wards aren't made much bigger and the CB cap isn't removed is to avoid wards blocking hits outright again. If they put an upper cap on how much of a hit they can block, say 70%, they can make wards as big as they want and they will never block a hit completely. But no matter how big the wards became they wouldn't be as overpowered as they were. Even if a ward was 10 million since it can't block all of every hit players could still die, it would just be slower than if they didn't have a ward at all.Group wards wouldn't get completely eaten up with a person in the group dying anyway. The person could still die, but its very likely some of the group ward would be left for the tank or other members. The wards will stay up longer removing some strain on the shamans allowing them to do the other things they have been balanced for in the past. For example you can't cite a mystics utility (buffs/debuffs) as part of balance when they are busy frantically spamming every heal they have. It wouldn't be like it was in the past for some fights, just casting wards and sitting back, but it wouldn't be 'bad heal spamfest' either. Seems like more than a fair compromise considering the current state has performance issue and completely changed the flow of play for shamans.
There are a couple problems with leaky wards. 1. Shaman depend on gaps in incoming damage in order to get out their other spells. Both Shaman have a significant number of debuffs that they need time to cast, and wards provide that time. If wards are leaky, Shaman will be forced to spend that time patching up the group instead of debuffing the mob. 2. Leaky wards like that turn Shaman into nothing more than mitigation buffers. All you are really doing is decreasing the amount of damage done, not preventing it. That's mitigation. Tied into the first point is the concept of overkill. Both Clerics and Druids are possessed of significant overkill in the amount of healing they can do. In other words, if you could in some way parse it, you'd find that the other two healer types have a huge amount of overheal - wasted healing. Shaman have none of that. While that is an advantage for wards that truly prevent damage, in a world where wards were more leaky it would be a big problem. Shaman would need a great deal more power in their patch healing (actual HP replacement), which would throw things out of balance again.
I really should make your post my new sig...but hang in there pal, new exp pack is coming and word on the street is that devs are taking care of it, yeah I know what youre thinking but they managed to fix BG matchmaker which was something noone ever thought of. wonders (fixes) do happen my friend!
on another note, with the upcoming lvl 100 cap theres a good chance mystics will be playable again. considering that there will be another increase of overall hp/dps/npc dmg with 5 more lvls, the devs cant ignore the warding issue anymore. I mean runnning around with 100k single target wards will look like a joke on a tank with maybe 2 mil. hp at lv100
Unless the laws of gravity have changed , its just going to get worse without a fundamental change in wards. Sure they can adjust things for the next expansion. But the sweet spot of where wards work with a balance of not to big (old problem) and not enough (new problem) Will become smaller as apposed to previous level capping. Simply because the line graph has a curve to it. There is only 3 options I see ... Keep wards working as is and boost them up or down ... Make wards leak damage , therefore stay up longer ... this would make shaman healing more like druids. Give the ward a utility of reflecting damge/debuff , or anything for that matter. Since the ward dropping so fast is creating a problem of spam casting for shaman and them not being able to use other abilities. Increased warding negates further healing period because of the triangle mechanic. So I guess a 4th option would be in adjusting that. Possibly just making it more complex ??? But then again ... how many more years does this game have? Maybe band aids will do just fine ;/
Ever since they fixed reactives there's no need for a shaman to heal anymore anyway, just dps and be done with it.
Does anybody know conclusively if detriments can be shielded by a ward? Meaning a debuff or dot ... If they just ignore the ward presently , maybe they should add that ability in ... also does an intercept do that??? Not that some special circumstances or types of hostile spells shouldn't bypass the pre health pool calculation. Here is my understanding though ... DMG Dealt --> ( Ward/intercept ( Target avoid/mit {Health Pool} <-- Reactive/Proc <-- Direct Heal <-- Hot follow up ... By the way Kiry ... I'd like to apologize for any of my words typed here that you took offense to. And if your who I remember back a few years ago in the warden forums. You did add some needed spice to the place
At this point, they can basically increase ward size x5 and raids would still run 4 druids and 1 shaman (maybe 2 if they've had bad luck recruiting). Developers are happy with healer balance. And by "balance" i mean that druids now have - most heals, most dps, most utiiltly and AE blocks. When encounters are outright designed to have 4 of one archetype (druids) and none of the other archetypes being necessary, that's apparently "balance". Pretty much everything i've fought in the game can be done without a shaman or without a cleric or without a channeler, while the entire expac is pretty much impossible without MULTIPLE druids. But hey, DEVs are "happy with the state of shamans". Cool. Time to leave it alone i guess.
