State of the Wizard Address (Serious)

Discussion in 'Mages' started by SacDaddy420, Dec 24, 2015.

  1. Rubyfire Member

    I know right. The funny thing is that being rude will undermine and hurt the chances of anything he actualy says being listened to by anyone far more than anyone with a wrong opinion. Not that you can actualy have a wrong opinion since an opinion is by definition a personal view. I beleive everyone should be able to have and voice an opinion without being abused. There is no benifit to fighting with him. Time better spent thinking of constructive critisisum for wizards. Not to say that if he was crossing the road i wouldn't acidenty hit the wrong peddle. Anyways back to wizards. So recap.1 fix mana burn 2 perhaps an aa for sorcerers only with an ability to proc spell resets. 3 fervor maybe a change to a passive self buff to grant some.
  2. Simien Active Member

    This thread is in regards to the state of the WIZARD, unless I am mistaken forum guide lines say, be respectful and courteous, communicate constructively, do not make personal attacks. Nerf calling, non constructive feedback, personal attacks which are all found in some form in this thread are breaking forum guidelines. Lets please get back on track before this thread gets shut down.

    Lets make the wizard good again. :)
    Rubyfire and HaphazardAllure like this.
  3. Rubyfire Member

    I keep looking and checking but it does not look like daybreak have any plans for wizards. I have also looked for any news on them improving the sorcerers as a whole but i have been unable to find anything.:(
  4. Wuhh New Member

    Wizard are seriously in decline currently. I have been playing one in a high end guild for several expansions now and it noticeable how poor we have become now compared to other T1 DPS on single target\limited targets.

    On large AOE fights I can still top the parse if I have the right group, I use every deity and temp buff available and everything goes to plan, so the mages in Maldura and Psionists are fights where I can still excel. The problem with this is it masks the issues with every other type of fight especially single\limited target fights. Those fights are closing to embarrassing. regardless of what I do I am almost always bottom of the T1 parse.

    The other problem with wizards is they bring very little utility to the raid, if we can't top the parse or be close to topping the parse, what other benefits do we bring? I can't think of many at all, and other classes already do better.

    Fiery blast has never been an easy ability to time right, but now with the short duration burst fights its near on impossible, Polliwog or Sath are a great example of where a slight mis-time destroys the already likely to be poor parse.

    Then having the ability go into cool down even if the ability doesn't fire due to the mob dying is frustrating in the extreme.

    Options I would like to see are
    1. reset if ability doesn't fire or target is immune
    2. reduce its duration from 10s to 8s and lower the cool down to 30\45 seconds.

    Current Annoyances
    Why do warlock increments on their prestige ability go to 180 increments yet wizards its 150, that needs to be brought into line either by reducing the warlock one or raising wizards.

    Focus casting allows for warlocks to cast on the move for a short duration, maybe something similar should be added to wizards.

    Why aren't fervor runes usable by mages? with the increase to scout DPS, this has created a serious imbalance.

    My biggest pet hate currently is Mimicry, the amount of damage it currently does turns a t2 support class into a quasi T1. This also undermines T1 classes that are under performing for reasons out of their control.

    Rubyfire likes this.
  5. Balbasur Active Member

    Wizzards do too much damage, they need to be toned down or their support removed it's unfair to scouts and priests.
  6. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    Rubick - hopefully we all see Teflon Don as a our next president and in parallel we will see you ability to read been improved as well. Grasp this - warlock is 1 trick pony - we all about ONE SINGLE THING - build fast 180 increments - get temps up - and blow our FC chain - there is no skills here - just keyboard mashing and group composition. In the SHORT fight (Iike most fights nowadays are) wizard in identical condition will fall behind warlock because even castrated FC with hard capped CB still blow away FB - but on any longer fight thing will equalized because FB much faster recycle compare to FC.
    Rubick - where is no need compare 2-3 top warlock from 2-3 top raiding guild with rest of wizards or scouts. to draw your conclusion w/o been looks like Lyin Ted or Lil Rubio ....
  7. Rubick Well-Known Member

    I assume that's what you meant to say. My ability to read is just fine. I just think almost everything you say is completely incorrect and you have no clue what you're talking about. You want to try to justify why you're getting beat by wizards on the parse (or barely winning) when the answer is incredibly simple. You are a bad warlock.
  8. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    Of course I am lol - and I can live with it ... but can you live with playing wizard that still will lose to bad warlock 6 days a week and twice on Sunday?
    Just to test one more time your ability to read ... let me try this
    I am not been beaten by scouts (except swashes on occasional AoE when I not been in particular mode of key smashing). I beat almost always BL, probably even with Sin, I rarely loose to ranger
    Now about mages - I always beat enchanters regard mimic, I never been beaten by wizard (at least in PUGs - guild do not have raiding wizards for obvious reason - very same reason why single warlock is enough). Conjurors are different story.
    And if we back to discussion point - yes wizards need some love but so is dark brethren of sorcs - warlocks but in lesser degree
    Rubyfire likes this.
  9. Rubick Well-Known Member

    Ok, so based on what you said, you are beating every other T1 on the parse (and you're bad), yet warlocks "need some love" too? That might be the dumbest thing you've said yet. If you seriously thinks warlocks need help when you claim you are topping all the parses for almost all situations then you are beyond reproach. As I said, you and Rubyfire talking about balance is so counter-productive that I can't even think of a turn of phrase right now that is derogatory enough, and my black book of colloquialisms is rather large.

    Also, the answer is no, I don't want to play a wizard to just get crushed by any warlock that has the proper number of chromosomes. That's why I am playing a different class until wizards are fixed.

    Self admitted scrub warlock allegedly still topping all parses saying warlocks need help. Absolutely astonishing. I am just so baffled by your logic, or lack thereof, that I don't even want to click "post reply" until I've read your post 50 times to make sure I'm not hallucinating. That's how stupid your post is. Great job, 10/10.
    Livejazz likes this.
  10. Flamace Active Member

    Has Rubick actually provided any insight into how to improve the class anywhere in this thread? I mean for knowing so much, you actually say nothing...
    Rubyfire likes this.
  11. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    Rubick - I am very rare topping parses and normally on a good day I am fighting for 4-5 position on the ladder ... PUGs are different stories
    But instead of picking on the class that took heaviest swing of nerf bat (FC and CB cap) you should be more constructive regard how to fix wizard and btw warlocks too - because top guilds already running with CB near 3k w/o FC
    Rubyfire likes this.
  12. Rubick Well-Known Member

    Jesus christ you're so thick. This whole conversation was about how warlocks aren't in need of fixing, then you recommend I be more constructive in helping fix them along with wizards. Solid. You coming in 4th or 5th isn't because of the inadequacies of the class. So your real gripe is that you're getting dunked on and think the class sucks because you don't know how to play it? Got it.That was all I needed to know. What I'm curious about is how you go from the post quoted below to saying you're fighting for 4th-5th. Either your guild has 4 conjurors, you conveniently left details out of one of your posts, or you're just full of **** and making stuff up on the fly to try to defend your shifting point of view.

    I sent a petition with my suggestions, some of which are listed below.

    These were both in my petition. I don't necessarily disagree with what Sac wanted for the left side, but I didn't include it because it has been far too long since I tested left side to have an informed opinion. I think Fiery Blast needs some work, whatever they decide to do to it. With enchanters casting mimicry and not having to do anything but hit that 1 button when a raid member says "I'm about to go ham" is too easy for it to be parsing how it does compared to FB. Fiery Blast counting all damage dealt (procs, unda, etc) would put them right up there with warlocks with one simple change, imo. It would need testing to make sure it didn't make them become the unbeatable T1, because counting absolutely everything might be a bit much. Another change I would like to see is for a rework to World Ablaze. To me it feels a bit clunky and I would rather it just be a buff to base potency without having to toggle the energy fires when you want to keep it going longer.

    Obviously I don't want all of these changes implemented as that would make the class stupid OP. Well, I won't say I wouldn't like that but the other classes likely wouldn't. However, those were some of the ideas I sent in.
  13. Rubyfire Member

    I was wondering if devs ever actualy read these forums.... you would hope with the cancelation of eqnext perhaps more attetion will go back into eq2. Even after working my arss off to increase my single target dps i can't catch the conj. Conj bring stone skin and other buffs to a raid. Wizards have some group buffs yes but nothing as usefull as the stoneskin. Wizards bring dps but atm that role is better filled by conj and beastlord both if which bring benifits aside from just dps. Conj stone skins the group. Beastlord can help heal with a change of stance. Wizards are just primarily dps and so it would make sence if we could top the raid parses on single target mobs

    My bigest peev atm is how much soul burn and life burn hit for when manna burn is useless. Sigh
  14. Anunnaki Active Member

    Its blatantly obvious that you have never in your life played a summoner. Conjy util?? ROFL, a bad stoneskin which only *may* trigger on physical damage, which for the group includes, what, 1 maybe 2 fights that are trivial at this point. What other utility does a conjy bring? 5% max health/mit? OMG SOO LEET. Only good utility a conjy has is Elemental Barrier, which you have to neuter your dps to spec into. ETox was a good group utility, until it wasnt a group proc anymore (read: less utility). Sacrifice used to be a good heal/power regen utility, yet it doesnt crit and now has literally no use whatsoever. Conjy is a PURE dps class and has been for some time. Except, unlike you overpowered Sorcs, not all of our stats are even remotely useful. Fervor doesnt share with dumbfire pets (arguably our best spells). Not to mention that these dumbfires also get killed, ALOT, which makes them a bad version of a DoT. Casting Skill doesnt share with any pet. 100 fervor from the hammer doesnt share with any pets, meaning all of the good stuff it resets doesnt even get the real benefit from the hammer.

    When was the last xpac that Necros *actually* cast Lifeburn? CoE? Yeah, it hits so hard that no one bothers with it.

    Seriously, you have no idea what you are talking about. Just because you get smashed on the parse doesnt mean your class is bad, it means you are bad. Get better. And for the love of god, please stop calling the most broken T1.5 class of all time overpowered.
    Rubick likes this.
  15. Wuhh New Member

    For what is worth, conjys are no longer t1.5 DPS, that is now the wizard. The conjy in my guild beats me on single\limited targets without even breaking a sweat. We have comparable gear, yet i cannot get close.

    I know i am not a bad player as you would like people to believe, last expansion i was in top2 on the parse regardless of fight. This expansion I am lucky if i don't finish bottom of the T1 parse or get beaten by mimicry classes.

    The wizard class is under performing significantly in relation to other T1 mages and that has been the case since the start of this expansion. I noted wizards were under performing in beta and passed comment, and i have seen nothing since to change my mind.

    I suspect the real issue lies with what attributes allow wizards to maximize their DPS, and that I think is where the crux of the problem lies.

    In previous expacs wizard DPS could scale just fine as the amount of Ability Modifier required to cap, while not attainable, wasn't as far away as it is now. Last xpac 110k ability modifier while not enough, allowed wizard DPS to scale well, this expac i need like 400k+ to scale to the same degree and the best I can get is roughly 150k (and this with sacrificing cb\pot).

    Other classes in previous expacs while needing ability mod did not need it to anywhere near the same level as wizards, and thus with the growth of spell damage this expac the other class that didn't need a lot of ability modifier can take it 100k+ and it significantly increases their DPS.

    This is 1 possible reason why wizards are no longer T1 DPS, they cannot scale as other classes have until they are provided with a way of getting significantly higher amounts of ability mod.

    I have also not talked about the doublecast changes this xpac. Wizards in previous xpacs had naturally have high double cast, i have been running 90%+ dc in raids for 2 xpacs so taking it 100% is not going to offer me much growth. Other classes that had naturally lower double cast get far more benefit.

    The other thing to note with double cast is that ability modifier is not taking into account on the duplicate damage, it only affects the original damage. For classes that do less damage per spell but lot of increments of the damage, 100% double cast makes a massive difference as the ability modifier additional damage of that spell is not that great, however for a wizard it is significant, and that is possibly another reason why wizards haven't scaled as well this xpac.

    Edit: I have deliberately excluded fervor from this as i don't want to muddy the water by adding scout t1 dps to the conversation but it also plays a huge role too, allowing mages access to fervor runes (and not just via the rare myth from maldura) is a huge oversight and should be corrected asap
    Rubyfire likes this.
  16. Rubick Well-Known Member

    I agree that conjurors, while far from OP, seem to be in a slightly better spot. However, both classes need some serious help to be a contender for top tier dps. Guilds really don't have a reason to want any T1 classes besides warlock/assassin, as they are cream of the crop imo.
  17. Rubyfire Member

    I know i have not played a conj but putting the conj with the tank for stone skin can sometimes be the difference between failure and success. I still know necros that are lifeburning. Also please be professional in your comments. There us no need for personal attacks in posts. Thank you. Conj still has a far higher single target dps potential then wizards at the moment. Also i base my opinions not just on my own wizard but what i see happen with others. Have you played a wizard?
  18. Anunnaki Active Member

    Yes, I have played a Wizard, I'm just far better on my conjuror, and I can admit that there is a parse difference due to skill level. The stoneskin doesnt stack with the Dirge stoneskin that is pretty much the same thing. Typically you dont find a tank group without a dirge, but I guess that depends on your raid. You wanna take that as a person attack, be my guest, but there is no other explanation for it. At the top end (where ceiling actually matters) wizards still outparse Conjys.
  19. Sylke Well-Known Member

    Honestly, I'd say Locks provide more meaningful utility than Conjs simply from Dark Siphoning :cool:

    I don't know much about Wizards other than they should probably be the highest single target DPSer.
  20. Rubick Well-Known Member

    You want people to stop insulting you, but you can't imagine the frustration arguing with somebody about balancing that's as adamant as you are with so little knowledge of how the classes in question work. You have no business trying to definitely state "facts" on class balance right now. None, zip, zilch, nada, cero, nix. Everything you post screams casual player that wants to be in the discussion so you force yourself in by boldly claiming things that aren't even remotely close to accurate. If you don't want to get insulted then maybe stop trying to state things like what you say is fact because you clearly don't know enough to get away with it. You and Doomdrake screaming about how conjurors are OP and warlocks need help is a dead giveaway that you have no concept whatsoever of the current state of mage dps. Our conjuror and warlock are both decent players and the conjuror gets absolutely **** on. He did before the reset hammer, and now they both have reset hammers and the gap is even larger. And really, putting the conj in the MT group for stoneskins? Really? What a joke. You and your equally clueless partner in crime lumping wizards in with warlocks as if it's a sorcerer issue instead of being specifically a wizard problem is not helpful, and is actually quite detrimental to an effort to get things fixed.

    As a Wizard I used to top every single one of our AoE parses in ToV (which is the last time I played it seriously as I quit during late ToV and skipped AoM) by 30-40% of the next highest player along with me and the necro in a dead heat on single targets with everybody else 10-15% behind. They seemed secretly OP to me during ToV, but people were still on the forums crying about the class because bad players always think it's the class to blame instead of their inability to play it, especially on a wizard as they are the most complex dps to play at maximum efficiency imo. However, now they're so horrible that I refuse to play my wizard because I would have no chance of topping our parses, or even being in the same ball park as the warlock and assassin. I played a wizard since launch, I'm a numbers freak always busting out spreadsheets, testing everything to min/max my dps, and know the ins and outs of the class. I can play it at an extremely high level but there is no desire to play it right now because they can't do the one thing they were designed to do, top parses. So that's why everything I say to you or Doomdrake has a caustic tone. People like you have been doing this same **** since day 1 of this game and holding back class balancing because, for all the devs know, you guys are right and warlocks/wizards are on a level playing field right now, both in need of help. Learn to play the class before you come on here to whine and make it harder for the devs to understand the current state of things thanks to having to filter out misinformation from overly vocal trash tier players.

    Bottom Line: Wizards and Conjurors need some real help to be viable as a T1 mage. The only reason they are in top end raids right now is because guilds already had high caliber players filling those slots and they're not going to kick a monster of a player because his class got nerfed to ****. Warlock dps needs to come down a decent chunk, assassin dps maybe tweaked down a small amount, with conjurors and wizards getting a small boost to dps to achieve total class balance for raids, from what I have seen. I realize this is unrealistic to ask in the middle of an expansion based on the resources DBG has available. Therefore, I am parking my wizard until a major game update that puts them in a better spot. I'm okay with it as there are always ebbs and flows to dps, which is why I'm playing a troubador now instead. I'm even okay with warlocks being this good for the rest of the expansion since they were heavily neglected for years while wizards were kings. I'm happy for good players that have been long time warlocks and finally get to stand alone in the spotlight. They deserve to have an expansion where they are extremely strong. People like Mogrim have always been able to compete in their respective guilds, but now they get to really flex all over the other T1s, and it's been a long time coming. What I'm not okay with is it potentially being the same for several more expansions because DBG listened to people that know next to nothing.
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