State of the Bruiser 2012

Discussion in 'Bruiser' started by ARCHIVED-Novusod, Jan 13, 2012.

  1. ARCHIVED-Novusod Guest

    State of the Bruiser 2012
    Overall the state of the Bruiser in the Age of Discovery expansion is very good. Bruisers will primarily fill the role of tanking in groups and raids. The role of the Bruiser is to protect the group, control agro on mobs, and lead parties through dungeons safely. The bruiser is very good at either filling Main Tank or Off Tank roles. Bruisers have decent single and AoE capibilities to deal with a very wide range of mob encounters. The Bruiser class isn't the best choice for everyone. The Bruiser can be a challange to play but if played to the max of what it is capible of playing a bruiser will be one of the most rewarding experiences the game has to offer. Bruisers can do things no other class can do such as teleport with sonic fists and drag mobs away. This is what makes the class unique and fun.


    The bigest issue for bruisers is that the class is rather hard to play for new players and casuals. Bruisers do not have a lot of good abilities at low levels. The abilities that really make a bruiser shine do not come until later in the game. Bruiser doesn't get a 100% parry until level 80. Bruiser has no death save until they have 220 or so AA spent. Bruisers also don't get a good snap agro ability until max level with 200+ AA as well. Getting to that point takes patients on the part of new players. New players need to shoot for maxing their AA all the to 320AA to get everything a bruiser needs to fully shine.


    This is an example of recommended AA build: http://beetny.com/

    As for adornments the highest priority is white hate gain adorns for Wrists and gloves. In DoV content bruisers will also need to load up on hate gain yellow and red adorns. Ballancing this with needed critical chance adorns can be a very tricky task for the casual bruiser. Try to aim for at least 40% solo hate mod so with group buffs your bruiser can reach the 100% hate gain cap.


    Bruiser and reforging: Reforging some stats to hate gain can help but I would recommend using reforging for some strikethrough. The biggest advantage a monk has over a bruiser is their 50% strikethrough epic buff. Reforging is the only possible way a Bruiser can only make up this difference. The stats that do the least for us and are best removing are AoE auto attack and dps mod. Reforge those into strikethrough, hate gain, or multi attack.


    Group make up is also very important for bruisers. Dirge for hate gain and coercer hate will make a world of difference in letting a bruiser become an effective tank. Assassin or Swashbuckler transfer also works well for a bruiser tank. Without an ideal group a bruiser is much harder to play regardless of level.
    The best single advice I can give new and casual bruiser is make sure to be in densive stance at all times and to make sure that defensive stance is Master quality. If defensive stance drops for some reason in middle of a fight make sure you click it back on ASAP.


    Suggestion for improving bruisers:

    It would really be nice if bruisers had a low level hate gain ability. Something like Lightning Fists can be changed to have hate gain component to it. Make it into a viable hate over time ability.

    Drag needs to work on more mobs then it currently does. Unless there is a script reason for a mob to be immune to drag all mobs need to be made dragable.

    Tag Team AA is still broken.
    POST GU 63 Update:
    Rock Skin is currently useless and needs to be revamped. The mitigation is not beneficial at all in any practical sence and using Rock Skin comes with steap penalties that make it detrimental to tanking. If I were to change this the penalties would go away and the mitigation value would be changed into 25% magic damage reduction.

    Post GU 64 Update: The Great Brawler NERF
    In GU 64 several class defining changes were made to bruisers.
    -Formost is the loss of strikethrough immunity which makes it harder for brawlers to avoid damage from more difficult raid encounters. This should not affect casual brawlers too much but this will make the class much less desirable raid tank at the high end.
    -The duration of Brawlers tenacity death prevent has been reduced to 60 seconds. This affects all brawlers and will mean the abilty will have to be more precisly timed when needed.
    -Heal nerf was also added so it no longer scales up with our potency. This makes the self heal boarder line useless in a group or raid environment. It is also a secondary nerf to Brawlers tenacity as it will no longer full heal. With certain healing recieved debuffs the self heal and tenacity heal can be reduced to almost nothing.
    GU 64 conclusion the bruiser class is substantially weaker after the great brawler nerf and will be much more difficult to play going forward.
  2. ARCHIVED-Aull Guest

    Nice write up and I would like to add my suggestions for bruiser improvement.
    I would like to see bruiser manhandle done away with and incorporated into the offensive stance and defensive stance. With bodyguard being so great it really makes smoldering fists lack luster. Offensive stance should have some worth when content allows for it to be used.
    Offensive stance basically receiving the proc rating of 5.0 ppm to engulf and defensive stance receiving the proc 5.0 ppm of threat.
    Do away with the mid stance Bruising all together. I see no need in this stance.
    Rock skin should be replaced with a passive self buff to dps mod. I personally never use this ability on my bruiser. My monk on the other hand has an aa that makes this ability useful. However I do not want my bruiser receiving any aa for rock skin like my monk has. No need in these two brawlers being more alike than they are now.
    Replace the enhance intimidate aa with enhance one hundred hands that reduces reuse time by five seconds and the final point making it where it cannot be blocked, dodged, or parried.
    Do away with AA alternate shiftiness/control hate. This aa has been out of date for years now and should be replaced with an AA ability with more usefulness. I can't think of an ability to replace them with so you all can throw your ideas in.
    There are so many improvements to list but I am just trying to be reasonable with areas that have not received any attention for a long time and could really use it.
  3. ARCHIVED-Novusod Guest

    I do Not really agree with the overall theme of your suggestions Aull. Bruisers should concentrate on consolidating there role as strong tank and not try to muddy the waters with other roles. In a game where 25 different classes are competing for slots min/max is everything.

    Manhandle: Keep it as is. Don't try to fix what is not broke.
    Offensive stance: A usable offensive stance is not really needed for a class that should the "King of Defense"
    Mid stance: Put strikethrough immunity on this and it would be amazing
    Rock skin: If I were to change this it would be into 25% magic damage reduction.
    Hundred Hand punch AA: Sounds decent
    Shiftiness: This was never usefull but rather than get rid of it turn it into a new blue AoE ability that drops hate to all targets except the one you are hitting. This would be extreamly usefull in DoV raids to get rid of adds you don't want on you.
  4. ARCHIVED-Aull Guest

    I understand that you or other players may or may not agree with my suggestions. Again they are suggestions for areas that I think bruisers can have a chance of seeing enhancements. Also I am not trying to muddy the waters. There is no misunderstanding that bruisers are a strong tank. My suggestions are not to take away from that but rather give bruisers versitilty by making smoldering fists have appeal for situations that being tough as granite are not really needed.
    Defensively I cannot see bruisers getting anything. Any more increases to our defense would probably lead to a nerf in the future.
    If anything I just want to see bruisers having more flexibility. I run bodyguard on my bruiser full time. There is no reason to use smoldering fists because the damage to survival ratio just isn't enough to warrant using it vs the damage to survival ratio of bodyguard. Honestly I would bet that a bruiser might loose one to five percent damage using bodyguard but the survivability increase is very noticable.
    Years ago bodyguard was not broken but it did get enhancement. Same with smoldering fists it isn't broken but needs enhancement.
    I like the 25% magic damage reduction for rock skin. That would be something unique.
    The blue aoe ability to replace shiftiness would be interesting to see but the dropping hate to all targets except the main target could cause issues.
  5. ARCHIVED-Novusod Guest

    The main point I want to get across to players is that the Bruiser is the "King of Defense." The single best tip I can give people is Turn on Defensive stance. This class is all about the Defensive stance. Stay defensive, stay defensive, stay defensive. I cannot drill this fact into people enough. It would be better if players acted like we don't have an offensive stance. The way the bruiser is played in the year 2012 is hold the mob and stay alive. Anthing that deviates from the course of either holding the mob or staying alive will muddy the waters of class role viability.
  6. ARCHIVED-Banditman Guest

  7. ARCHIVED-Gungo Guest

    The only way i can see xelgad fixing tag team is by turning it into the bruisers version of sleight of hand WITH the avoid buff heal. Its current form doesnt work well and i think that has alot to do with the lack of hate # attached to it.
    Control hate is a great ability if it did what it said and LOWERED your hate in offensive. There are certain npcs i would like to have a positional deagro for tank swaps, but requiring shiftiness is not that way to go.
    offensive stance proc chance was never good. It need to be off ANY hit not melee. Furthermore it needs to be at least an encounter proc if not an outright blue pbaoe proc.
    I'd be happy if rockskin AA would gain the ability to loose the daze effect and just had root like the monsk version. Its a fairly useless ability otherwise. I've started to use the ability more as an ability to cast before a large physical aoe hits if i dont have a stoneskin up. Its a reduction of damage for stuff like that and can save a death prevent trigger. It would also make some bruisers take that useless AA.
  8. ARCHIVED-Aull Guest

    I think Gungo and I have shared the same ideas for bruiser offensive stance for a few years now. Even if it never becomes an encounter proc it should proc as Gungo stated " off ANY hit not melee".
    Years and years ago I believe engulf had the chance to proc off melee and combat arts. For everyday norrath adventures offensive stance had beneficial use.
    As for rock skin I again wish bruisers didn't have it. Its just a sub-class individuality thing for me. I don't like my monk and bruisers being so alike/sharing abilities. It defeats the purpose of having two sub-classes if both are alike.
    Novs idea of the 25% magic damage reduction is unique and would allow the bruiser to have an ability that isn't like the monks version.
    Gungo has a great point that control hate is a nice ability but requiring shiftiness is what makes it lack appeal.
  9. ARCHIVED-Gungo Guest

    I dont feel like screen shotting it.
    But the class balance cloaks they created has got to be the worst of all fighters for bruisers.
    Furthermore even if we were intended not to get anything great, Its aweful effect the only thing it does is make it easier to hit the named in a raid if you are offtanking adds and pulling agro and wiping the raid or getting ourselves co-oped.
    \aITEM -795627901 -85238712:Bruiser\'s Banner of War\/a
    Change this effect to ANYTHING else. Make dev fist an encounter ability. Make knockout a group buff. Make lightening fists a group buff and 25% more damage. Give bruisers a proc that increases accuracy/strikethrough/crushing skills by 125. Anything this is bad effect.
  10. ARCHIVED-Banditman Guest

    Tag Team doesn't work because it isn't programmed properly. I posted logs of this a LONG time ago showing what it was doing was NOT what it "says" it is doing.
    I wish I had bookmarked it, but I had really good logs of what Tag Team was doing, and it wasn't AT ALL doing what it was supposed to.
    Working properly (as described in the inspect), Tag Team would be a great ability.

    Edit: Here it is.
  11. ARCHIVED-Novusod Guest

    I would also request a clicky to turn off all riposte similar to the clicky singular focus.
  12. ARCHIVED-Banditman Guest

    Why would you want to turn off Riposte?
  13. ARCHIVED-Novusod Guest

    Riposte can trigger certain fail contidions.

    Updated the top post for GU64.
  14. ARCHIVED-Corydonn Guest

    No riposte doesn't.

    Also pressure point and maybe even wild beating should trigger Knockout Combo and Vicious Combo.