State of the Beserker class thread (last updated 17th November '08, TSO launch)

Discussion in 'Berserker' started by ARCHIVED-Bremer, Mar 24, 2008.

  1. ARCHIVED-Glari Guest

    Bremer wrote:
    If these changes went live, it would bring back Truck (80 Berserker) to Everquest 2, rather than tossing another subscription (and subsequently 5 or 6 more subscriptions of my family and friends) out the window to AoC.
  2. ARCHIVED-Bremer Guest

    Removed the "Look of the weapon" part. Really didn't fit so well in here as everything else dealed with game mechanic stuff except this and so it is unlikely someone responsible will read it there.

    I started a thread about the weapon in the "Look and feel" forum. If you think that the weapon should change post there. Maybe someone in the SOE art department will read it and do something.
  3. ARCHIVED-fotsman13 Guest

    Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:
    I got both VG and the HoM buckler. the difference in avoidance on those 2 is around 4% which is huge. Also the 30% on the offensive stance base damage only adds 4-7 damage every time it procs so its currently broken. Tbh, no single gear will make me feel happy or forget the problems i have with my class. In Kos i was a regular MT/OT. Now i am a scout buff bot. I wear plate, chain and leather and can rival some scouts in dps but that is not what i signed up for when i chose warrior/berserker.
    I agree with all your points Bremer, i just hope the developers will spent some time reading this....
  4. ARCHIVED-Kannabis Guest

    i think if guardians are able to use thier Tower shield down the stamina line with their epic, so should zerks. it is BS otherwise.
    Zerkers should be at par with Guardians at ALL levels, including buffs and abilities. That is the way it was orignally set up. The difference should just be a very slight sacrifice in defense for slighty greater DPS output, but that should be about it. However right now this is far from the reallity of things...
    Why be a zerk when you can be a guardian? same DPS, better buffs, better agro, better defense... it is no wonder why so many have betrayed and the numbers keep dwindling down.
  5. ARCHIVED-RULlawyer Guest

    Kannabis wrote:
    Do keep in mind that as this game grows and ages, like every mmorpg, similar classes are going to be given greater distinction from each other. The gap between Guardians and Berserkers will grow. The bigger problem as I see it, is that Bererkers are basically a T7 tank in a T8 world. It is like the class didn't grow with Kunark.
    It is not about the epic or armor sets, it is about game mechanics and class abilities. Hit rates went way down, and Berserker Abilities didn't grow, but instead they diminished.
    Come fall a new expansion will be out. This is the danger of playing a berserker right now. When, not if, when the new gear comes out it will replace most if not all gear on our berserkers, but if the mechanics and abilities don't get looked at, we will still be an underclass.
  6. ARCHIVED-LygerT Guest

    you know, if you got your mythical and betrayed you should be able to use it as a guard as pentance for putting up with all of the ********.
  7. ARCHIVED-RULlawyer Guest

    Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:
    Seriously, why tote around a Zerker POS on a nice new spiffy awesome Guard? Isn't that like buying a brand new car and keeping your old floor mats.
  8. ARCHIVED-Mulethree Guest

    Bremer wrote:
    30% increase to base damage of offensive stance =~ +200 AE damage 2x/minute. About 7DPS on a single-mob fight. So people see that 'zerker focus' and say 'zerker buckler' but the focus is trivial because the damage component of the offensive stance is pretty trivial. Just as good for a Guardian as for a zerker - assuming they are in an offensive role.
    Maybe if we had more multi-mob fights on Kunark raids - currently if you go thru all the tier1, tier2, tier3, hate Kunark raids you are fighting one mob at a time like 95% of the time which really sucks for all the classes that are loaded with AE's.
  9. ARCHIVED-Mulethree Guest

    I'd love some way to tell just how much our regen actually helped on a raid - Think of a fight with raidwide ae's like Venril. Our regen ticks anytime someone isn't fully healed before the next 'regen tick' Probably good for 100,000+ on such a fight.
    But then I look at a fight where a dirge used Noxious Tempo effectively - and there are 1,500/20,000 messages in the fight log about it - 8% of the bandwidth just from those warded hits and messages about the ward regenerating - and they were 2nd place on the healers list with nearly 300k prevented by that ward. If our raidwide buff showed up something similar, on every fight with ae's. Its not a trivial amount of extra network traffic for all 24 raidmembers and do we really want to be high up on the heals list?

    My main problems with playing berserker -
    Regaining agro - any fight with a recurring memwipe makes me feal useless, my 'special' agro tools don't even work unless the mob's attention is already on me and even then they seem weak compared to the huge increases in DPS that the damage classes have with tier8. If I die halfway thru a 10 minute fight it can take 2 minutes to get back up to 2nd place on the hatelist.
    Many of my special tools are attuned to AE DPS, AE Agro but 95% of raid fights in Kunark (well solo and heroic stuff too) are one-mob-at-a-time. This isn't just zerkers - everyone with a lot of AE's - especially 'Green' sort got screwed because its quite rare to find 'linked' encounters compared to prior expansions - but they made no adjustments to spell lines that matches to the rarity of 'green ae' and 'blue ae' situations.
    I don't understand the comments about the unreliability of Adrenaline - to me it does seem to reduce damage a lot and consistantly while it's up, and it always seems to stay up at least till it has 5 seconds remaining and I cancel it hoping to avoid the power drain. But it feals like an exploit - cancel it early and you get 4/5 the benefit without the huge penalty? But the penalty is so outrageous and crippling that they apparently intend for you to distract yourself trying to cancel it at the right moment. It should drain power each time it absorbs damage which is easy to do and logical.
    The friggin buckler AA - well thats a warrior AA and pretty old - but the double attack from it makes dual wield and 2 handed non-options - so its not so much providing an alternative as forcing all warriors to go with a buckler most of the time - it removes alternatives rather than providing one. Yes a buckler is a weapon and you should get extra attacks when using one, they aren't extra attacks from the main weapon. Make it an extra crush based on the quality of the buckler and inferior dps to dual wielding or using a 2 hander in exchange for the added defense you get with the buckler.
  10. ARCHIVED-Obadiah Guest

    Mulethree wrote:
    The icon for Adrenaline remains in your active spells window regardless of whether it is still helping you or not. It always LOOKS to the player like it's always lasting the full duration. Always.

    The only way to determine how long it actually gave you 50% absorption is to put a /say or something in the log when you launch it, and then review the log later and look at each of the hits prior to that and for the next 32 seconds. Or try watching the combat log live, but good luck with that. There's no actual, visual indication to you, the player when it stops protecting you.

    Cancel it early you still take the full power drain.
  11. ARCHIVED-LygerT Guest

    Bunn@Lucan DLere wrote:
    because it does have better DPS buffs and the AE is still nice for certain encounters.

    these are the main things i want to see changed for our class in order of importance:
    1) attack skill buffs either on gear or attached to our skills that allow us to hit orange con epics more steadily allowing us to hold aggro on par with guards while tanking defensively and/or DPSing on orange con trash
    2) a temporary immunity to fear/stun/stifle/root, i don't care if it's even only against one of those effects it would be a step in the right direction in our role as current offtanks
    3) fix adrenaline, in it's current state it shouldn't even eat up our mana so it can be used against mobs like venril or mobs where we eat huge power drains regularly. i understand why it was made the way it is but it currently doesn't make up for our shortcomings
    4) tweak our AAs to make it so we are not forced to retain a buckler. this is associated with #1 in that it is nearly impossible for us to hold aggro with a tower shield unless either the top DPS lays low or we have an ideal raid setup
    *) snap aggro is one of the least important to me, there is ways around our lack of it either by working harder or using abilities available to us in our group. it would be nice but if i wanted an easymode toon i would have betrayed already.
  12. ARCHIVED-Bremer Guest

    Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:
    Made a minor addition to the mythical weapon part.
  13. ARCHIVED-LygerT Guest

    well, stun/stifle/root/etc comes into play during almost every difficult encounter. if we can't hit our temps due to our control status then we die more easily or lose aggro which bring all the rest of those into play, especially the snap aggro issue.
    i prefer buckler as well but sometimes it's just necessary that we tank with a tower shield and it doesn't work well for holding aggro. what i have to do is swap out my shields continuously and i'd rather be doing something more constructive than hotswapping shields because i'm forced to.
  14. ARCHIVED-Bremer Guest

    Ok, it wouldn't be so completely limited, there are lots of encounter with stun/fear/stiffle and I wouldn't mind getting something like immunity to one of these effects while Beserk for a limited time. But everyone else has to deal with these problems, not just us. I'd rather like getting something to deal better with incoming dmg than such an immunity.
  15. ARCHIVED-RULlawyer Guest

    We should be careful asking for hit bonuses on gear. Anything that "fixes" or band-aids to our class on current gear also puts the berserker class in a position of obsolecence come the next expansion, when gear changes.
    Fixes should really be tied to the powers and abilities that come naturally to the berserker.
  16. ARCHIVED-LygerT Guest

    Bremer wrote:
    you're right but we're not any of those other fighter classes either. we already lacking more special class defining abilities since DPS/haste, HP regen, AE DPS is all outdated. so why not try looking to a new direction for ways to improve the class where we have issues?
    they're just my opinions and what i'd like to see, obviously not what everyone wants.
  17. ARCHIVED-JerronBlacksilver Guest

    I just recently (within the past 2 weeks) leveled my Berserker alt to 80, and have successfully tanked all the heroic zones in RoK. At this level of play, I can already see the issues addressed in this thread come in to play, and can imagine how those issues are exacerbated in T8 raiding, so I really feel for you (few) guys that are raiding with berserkers...and I continue to be disappointed at the lack of any official response to this thread. I reeeeally am tired of zerkers betraying to guardian, and even a "Hey, we hear you" response would at least slow the flow.

    Berserker is certainly a fun class to play, but we do need some class abilities re-worked. I'll echo what's been said in a few places here; fixing items is just a band-aid, one that will wash off in the next expansion. I don't have anything to add to these issues at this time, I think the list is quite well done (I will say, the notion of adding some sort of control immunity while berserk is brilliant, fear being a logical choice, though others would be nice).
  18. ARCHIVED-RULlawyer Guest

    I like what you are thinking Lyger, that maybe it is best to just look in new directions, maybe a good idea will come out of it. In support of your idea I'll take a few minutes and do the same.
    Berserker Augmentations:
    "I drank what!" -The last words of Socrates - Its not just for scouts anymore. Berserker is the more "evil" side of the warrior class anyway... Let the berserker use poison and put a threat increase poison and hate % increase into the game. After all the poisons would fall under our beloved Domino's tradeskill umbrella. Plus, just think of the fun AA they could put into the berserker AA for poisons.
    Blame Who? - An addition or replacement to the powers of the Head Crush line, that work like the blame arrow for a ranger. A 10 second hate increase buff against that mob. It would help with some raid utility for the berserker as well as offer better agro generation when used in combination with taunts.
    "Mommy your combat boots are pretty" - Berserkers would have immunity to NPC taunts. This could have many applications without being overbearing and make the berserker into the ultimate MA class.
  19. ARCHIVED-Trynnus1 Guest

    Bunn@Lucan DLere wrote:
    How about a
    Why are you ignoring me When bezerker and not top of the hate list increase melee crit chance by X% or +25 to each s/c/p. If we are the DPS tank maybe this buff would help us to do more DPS until we are back at the top of the hate list. Add an effect that temporarily disables all deaggros and aggro transfers, so no amends or coercer de-aggros during this time.
    An ability that "locks" in our hate list position for 10-30 secs - only usable while bezerk. 3 case min timer with a 5 sec cast.
  20. ARCHIVED-Obadiah Guest

    Bremer wrote:
    Another thing you can do: Death's Door lasts 36 seconds. (IIRC) Set up ACT to start a 36 second timer when it goes off and warn you when it's 10 seconds from expiring. Then pop the clicky berserk when it warns you.

    BTW, has the cat been let out of the bag re: Unyielding Will and the AA or are we keeping that quiet?

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