Sorcerer DPS balance

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Kioske, Apr 20, 2017.

  1. Kioske Well-Known Member

    Let's keep it on topic here, namely the fact that we don't need new content added to a game that has broken base content. Unless that new content is designed to fix the broken content.
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  2. Jrox Well-Known Member

    What's sad, these abilities should fall more to enchanters not Sorcerer's. Warlock's shouldn't power feed better than Enchanter's. Wizard's should be more DPS focused while the Enchanter's offers the utility like magic dmg reduction.

    This statement I tend to agree with. I prefer back-end work done on the game over any content work for right now. There is a window here to fix everything before the next xpack. Fix it all and then give a glamorous xpack next fall!!!

    Just sayin...
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  3. Veta Well-Known Member

    I didn't oversell anything, I just stated what was good for each class.

    The 2 minumum (3max with prestige) stoneskins only trigger on less than 50% of hp hits, meaning it doesn't prevent 1shots/high damage spikes. The cooldown is 90 seconds, also not reset by the rune (nice assumption though), the same reuse as the damage reduction. If the groups begin to spike hard, the damage reduction would allow more recuperation, saving things such as wards, etc. The damage reduction will work throughout a fight whereas the stoneskins only work to a point. Seeing with expert zones and t4 fights the incoming damage increases over time, the damage reduction has more value overall. Even if the sorc wards are 500k, they still take priority over other wards. Like I said previously, this allows more survivability overall. If you are getting 1mil total for both and there are up to 2 sorcs in a group that is saving 2 mil on the collective wards and allowing those to be used on other members. Not everyone can spec the dragon tree ward, only priests/scouts/mages can.

    Survivability utility, and I am sure others agree, is worth more than dps increasing utility. Your dps doesn't matter if you can not survive. I remember being the first guild in AoM (Ka'Rah Ferun or w/e the center well mob was named) and I suppose you could include Terris, progressing mobs before others because people don't realize how good damage reduction utility actually is.

    You are comparing your utility to utility classes. That would be like me comparing my hearts/shards to a coercer, which would be laughable. I was comparing of the T1 good based utility, like you were. As far as I know, top end raid guilds don't run more than 1 coercer, at least we don't. This would allow the coercer to have 1 less group to worry about. The radius of dark siphoning is 7.5m from you, with volatility + resonance radius buff, that is another 40% increase to the radius giving you a 10.5m radius. If your members are standing at 2 (minimum max melee range is 4) + mages at 19, that means you have a perfect sweet spot between them. I can see your guild hasn't gotten too far into progression because there are fights where power regen is necessary done outside of fail conditions and ae radius reduction is useful.

    You got me on this one, I forgot about it. I do find it funny you only consider it the best utility because it helps YOU, specifically, and not everyone else (yes, I know it helps the group, but you stated that it was the best because it helps you). Kind of a short sight huh?

    I forgot to take into account the 10% increase from lvl 95 to 100 when factoring in the 5%. I am not saying it is worth giving up half of your dps, as you can see from my previous post I agreed that sorcs/sins were doing half the dps of those other classes and they are. Nature's focus is worth more? Or does it actually do more than miasma? I am not sure why you are going on about the passive dmg of ranger/conj when your main post was about how they provide better utility while doing more dps. If a conj is having to joust then they are playing wrong anyway. There should be no reason for the person to be closer than 20m. You contradicted yourself in your previous post saying your mages were out at 19m and now saying they have to joust.

    Fire seeds is concentration slot used, meaning the conj only has 5 max buffs possible. I'd imagine the conj puts 1 on him/herself, their pet, + other dps in the group, followed by utility/healer. I'd say up to 10% fervor per person, to 5 people max (of which only 2-3 would actually be a dps class), extra doesn't make up for how much hp debuffs actually do for a mob. Not saying the class should lose dps for having max hp debuffs, but it is by far one of the best, if not the best, utilities offered in the game.

    One of the beastlords wards doesn't work and if they wanted to maximize on healing/powerfeeding they would have to use their savagery freeze to swap between the stances. That would be inefficient because savagery freeze only lasts for so long and has a decently long cooldown. If you try to stance swap without the freeze then you lose all of your savagery. Otherwise, that beastlord must beat you in some category of stats, because that shouldn't be happening. If the beastlord is healing and topping the parse in spiritual stance I think there are other issues. I'll take some posted parses for you to show me up.

    You should start to realize how good your utility actually is before you say others is that much better.
  4. Nkito Well-Known Member

    I'm glad class balance will be tackled in November, I'm sure it will require lots of time to get it right.

    In the meantime is there any reason why a temporary bandaid couldn't be put on the underperforming t1's by simply giving them a base spell/ca % boost?
  5. Kioske Well-Known Member

    I'm not going to make another seriously long winded reply, but your rebuttal has so many falsehoods in it, I just feel like you're trying too hard at this point. Warlock Utility < Conj/Ranger/BL utility.

    Obviously EVERY class other than fighter can spec for the ward, my point was that every class discussed here can spec for the same ward. If you think 500k more in wards that regen 33% every 3 seconds is worth utility, you are seriously overselling the utility of them. (FYI, if they're not bugged for huge numbers, they are typically worth about 20k heals per second on Vhaksiz, which is very moot considering the 12+ mill healers are doing)

    For the BL to top the parse in spiritual all you need to do is run a group that doesn't have a Conj/Rang/necro/other BL in Feral in it. Is it really hard to believe? You don't think a BL in Spiritual can outparse a warlock or a sin? Are there any left? Other than the most stubborn of players? Would you guys even roll with Yards if he was a recruit and not a long standing member of your guild? Would you guys even recruit a warlock replacement if he quit tomorrow?
  6. Yards Well-Known Member

    Well said Veta.
  7. Yards Well-Known Member

    In all seriousness though, they should just raise/lower the weaker/stronger class abilities until they are relatively close in dps potential. It wouldn't be hard, it wouldn't take long, and it would make a lot players a little more excited to log on and play. I read some of this " new " stuff coming in the upcoming gu/expansion, and I can't help but think how bad of an idea it all is. There is like 4 developers and they somehow have this idea that they can essentially completely rebuild eq2 (and not fix any of the problems they created a long the way) instead of just keeping it the way it has been for 12 years.
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  8. Veta Well-Known Member

    Not sure what falsehoods I posted. Everything is true. I figured I was wasting my time once you didn't take into account radius increases on your dark siphoning and then contradicting yourself on a previous point within the same post.

    Okay, I understand the numbers are lower and how much hps it is. On other fights that matter, like T4 and expert zones, where the damage is constantly ramping, that 1mil ward could save a group members life. It seems the only point you want to argue about are the low ward numbers. Your ward will be affected by bleedthrough too so not all of it will be consumed and the rest will be taken up by a shaman ward. That being said, it still is less ward that is being used up from the group, which is a fact. If you really want to win that point, then I'll just go on to say that out of every T1 class warlocks provide the best healing with dark siphoning, even more than a necromancer. It seems the only utility you care about is the one that boosts your dps, not the ones that make the biggest impact, which you made apparently clear in your last post.

    Yes, I do, in fact, find it hard to believe. Well, if there are none left, then how would you know the answer to this? If you have been there for this, then you should definitely have the evidence to post. Otherwise, I am just going to assume you are making up fake scenarios. If you look at our recruiting page we are recruiting a predator, as opposed to a ranger. In the same case we would recruit a summoner or a sorc if a mage dps slot is open. The only reason we have conj selected specifically is because we don't have the bubble utility option. So the answer to that question is yes. If Yards and Daray weren't here we would still recruit a warlock/wizard replacement. I am sure you will say this post is filled with falsehoods because what I am saying is probably opposing what you wanted me to say.
    DoomDrake likes this.
  9. Kioske Well-Known Member

    Sweet Jesus, give it a rest. I can't even be bothered to read that nonsense.
    Mizgamer62 and Livx like this.
  10. Arieva Well-Known Member

    Last expansion a beastlord covered an entire group on power regen in roost, and in some cases downright made another chanter or two look bad in the process. Also there was several occasions where we had to fallback on the beastlord due to lack of warding healers on several encounters. That's utility and that's *part" of why they are desireable in raids. Yeah, we aren't the "BEST" players in the game but guess what? 90% of the game base is like us..or worse (at least going by the progression pages). Arguing the minutia of the classes assuming that everyone is playing 100% is pointless because most the playerbase don't play to that level.

    I haven't needed a sorcerer in raid for probably 4-5 expacs to really get anything done. We have one and she's great but I feel sorry for her every time I look at the parse. I also don't see how guilds like ours looking down the barrel of t4 mobs will be able to overcome those kind of dps checks with sorcerers and assassins being so underwhelming in the parse department. Therefore +1 to giving them something before xpac hits...
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  11. Errrorr An Actual EQ2 Player

    Sorcerors need something or really there isn't much point in them logging in any more till November. They may as well use the time to sort out another character and pray that next expac makes them useful again.

    There really is no point taking a Sorceror to a raid if you have a suitable BL/Ranger/Conj/Necro/Brig available instead.
  12. Veta Well-Known Member

    If it makes you feel better, we have 0 beastlords, 0 conjs, 1 wiz, 1 lock, 1 necro, 1 app necro, and 1 ranger as our T1 dps and we killed the T4s before most (still only 1 of the 2 for Shanaira T4 and first to kill Terris). Not trying to add insult to what you said before, but it is definitely possible.

    I definitely do agree that they should receive something before the expac hits. Fiery blast working properly would be amazing and should be fixed regardless. It isn't as much as a class balancing issue as much as it is a class issue because an ability is busted. Warlocks could use some scaling and so could assassins. I agree with Yards in that they could just add some scaling to the abilities, mostly base, over time until its where people wanted. I still have heard there are being changes on May 5th to abilities, but nothing major, mostly bug fixes (fingers crossed for fiery blast being great again?.
    DoomDrake likes this.
  13. Arieva Well-Known Member

    Oh definitely and no insult taken. Rev has some of the best players and they can make a lot of different setups work because the players you have maximize everything. The majority of players down the totem pole don't. It would be nice to think DBG would allow even those players a chance to complete their mythical quest before next expansion launch. The discrepancy in damage on several dps classes is just making that seem unattainable at this point. And dont even get me started on the t4 raid encounters being selective on damage type incoming!
  14. Jrox Well-Known Member

    Someone should pull their enchanter card, and send them on their way...

    Just sayin...
  15. Livx Member

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  16. Ucarenyes Member

    No matter how hard ppl try to build a better world for Dinosaurs they won't return because they already gone.

    Current tithe and epic 2.0 thing requires investment on character, current mono-play of Potency leave no resolution of stats to modify and help some class while not breaking others. It is DBK's own effort to push tolerance of broken class to very low level.
    -Soteria- likes this.
  17. Arieva Well-Known Member

    Oh I know and in some select guilds that would be the case. The fact is the rest of game doesn't operate like that. Many guilds just have to work with the players available in their timeslot. However those players don't get represented on these boards because they don't have the desire to waste their time arguing the finer points of mechanics (and yes many of them just don't have the knowledge in the first place). Still those folks have the right to play the game and progress at a reasonable clip assuming they work hard at the content and have a reasonable knowledge of their class.
    captainbeatty451 likes this.
  18. Earar Well-Known Member

    well sometimes u just go with the player. Because it's a game and u can't force people to play what they don't want and u like them u u let them play and them may not be the best of the best but give enough dps to be good.

    sure it's not optimal but what's better ? play with people we enjoy or just min maxing and having no fun anymore ?
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  19. Naneeje Well-Known Member

    Nobody is really leaving the game over it, everyone is just having to go back to the alt pool to level up the "class of the month".

    Every group, 4 necros.
    Now every group, 4 beastlords

    :) Soon, Pallies will rule and we will have 1 Pally in tank stance, 1 pally in healer stance, and 4 pallies in dps stance and SK's will do the same :)
  20. Naneeje Well-Known Member

    Nobody at Daybreak gets paid to sit and do what you do at the computer.
    I want you to think about how many hours you spend at the computer in this game figuring weird tricks out. Raid, hours on end, every single night, determining what tweaks in the AA they can make to maximize their dps. How many flaws over the expansions have people exploited.

    The player base is way too smart, and have way too much time on their hands to discover these things. It's the same with every topic of your life. This car is too slow, this TV is too blurry, this computer is state of the art, and now obsolete.
    Daybreak relies on our feedback to balance the classes sometimes because we discovered crap we shouldn't have.

    Do you have 500,000 dungeon marks?
    Do you have 45 billion plat?
    Do you have a Rallic Pack in very slot?

    As players, we can be ruthless, that's all I'm going to say.
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