Sorcerer DPS balance

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Kioske, Apr 20, 2017.

  1. Kioske Well-Known Member

    "Class Balance Updates

    In the upcoming expansion, we’ll be doing a major revamp of class balance focusing on bringing each class back into line with their intended roles. Specific areas of focus will be tier 1 DPS classes that are not performing as well as desired, and more support buffs and debuffs for several healer classes and expanded support for enchanters and bards."

    Are we really supposed to accept that you are going to wait 6+ months to address the fact that sorcerers are doing HALF the DPS of other T1 classes? This is a fix that needs to be done before ANY new content is released. This is unacceptable. This is game breaking, and many people are leaving the game over it. Why are you putting it off?
  2. Mogrim Well-Known Member

    Especially because leaderboard type content which will be rewarding speed runs essentially means not only are we not performing well, but we won't be wanted during the new content.
    -Soteria-, Livx and Mizgamer62 like this.
  3. Kioske Well-Known Member

    If they wait until next expac there won't be any sorcerers around left to fix.
    Livx, Mizgamer62 and Zeee like this.
  4. Veta Well-Known Member

    The speed run content says it uses battleground like hardware. I'd imagine that means reduced stats, making things like FB and FC effective again because there should be no rerolling/stat capping. Otherwise the leaderboard type content would be a zerker, 4 beastlords, and whatever healer, probably a shaman.
    Livx, Mizgamer62 and Revanu like this.
  5. Yards Well-Known Member

    I'm not entirely sure what thought process is behind waiting until next expansion to fix the class balance. As it is right now you 1/3 to 1/2 of the player base playing useless classes. Class balance/class game play, is the single most important thing in an mmo, it is what makes or breaks a game and is what content is built upon. Have they really given up on this expansion, and are just going to leave it a total mess. I can't speak for everyone but I feel like I got totally ripped off for purchasing this expansion and at the very least the next expansion should be free of charge.
    Luminiee, Livx, VGScastaway and 4 others like this.
  6. Mizgamer62 Feldon Fan Club Member

    Unbelievable ...... I am at a loss for words. :(:confused::eek:
    VGScastaway and Zeee like this.
  7. Kioske Well-Known Member

    At this point I am just weighing my love for this game, and cutting my subscription is winning the fight. If I would have known that this expac would have been so broken, I would have not purchased it, or at the very least I would have played a different class. As it stands now, my other characters are so far behind that it isn't worth my time and effort to try to get them to the same "level" to main switch. There was a hint that there would be some class balance looked at in the May 2nd update, and it's sad to see that you guys are going to be putting out more content instead. I can assure you, we do NOT want more content with the way the game is currently broken. It would serve you better to spend your time working on class balance and stop working on these GU content patches. (FYI, we don't want another fabled zone until this GAME mechanic is fixed)
  8. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    Fundamental problem of current state of game is that there is no variety of content and in such content the only way to create balance make all classes (DPS classes) identical.
    Back in vanilla time - was at least "some" variety of fights (ST vs. AoE at very least and not all mobs were brawler type).
    At this moment there is no interest to play any class with complex fighting style - why bother with say BL when you can grab use Ranger for faceroll content with hawk or why bother with sorcerer when you have simpler way of play (but similar style) and x2 DPS by playing BL.
    We fighting consequences of poor design of content. CC no longer needed etc. etc etc. DPS Classes no longer relaying on their class specific abilities/spells (with an exception of BL) - all boils down do the Epic 2.0 abilities and Ascending. Imaging what chunk of you DPS will contribute GMed Ascending abilities?
  9. Kaarkula Active Member

    Wiz and Warlocks are in a bad spot right now.. I wouldn't like it if I played one either.

    However.. I remember 3-4 consecutive expansions where they were the kings at the table.. especially warlocks.

    But that being said, I understand how people feel. It will come back around again... why they do it that way is one thing I don't understand however.
    Livx likes this.
  10. Zeddicious Well-Known Member

    They fix sorcerers... wizards get mad. They fix wizards... other dps scouts get mad... they fix other dps scouts.. bards get mad... idk what the solution is /now/ considering how that community testing thing panned out - just a bunch of BL's beastlording off in a circle on a training dummy... Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for 'em... the encounters now favor them being able to build up enough whoosits and whatsits for their super duper attacks... but wow.. that's a lot of dpssses.

    So wherever the tiers lay - T1's /should/ be doing what - 2 billions of dps single target?
    Then what would T2's be.. like 80 percent of that? 1.8 billions of dpsesses?
    Then bards.. around what.. 1 billionsy dpsesses?

    TBH - with how encounters are being constructed these days with panic scripts and whatnot, I'd imagine instead of bringing all the other classes up a notch, that the BL's might be taken down a few notches (sadly) - its easier to fix over 1 class, then monkey with all the rest? I hope not.

    Don't get me wrong. I'd like to see the gaps a little closer - with class defining abilities playing a more crucial role in a character's performance.. like FB and FC.. and VC.. with ascension / epic stuff close behind.

    With all this power creep - killer new orange adorn... will we even be able to realize our full dps potential in a raid encounter without it being considered almost an exploit?

    I'd love to see a straight turn and burn encounter (maybe 1x boss per zone) where all of our toons could go pedal to the metal wide open without flippin combat mit / dance dance revolution / panic erhmagarh dps scripts getting in the way... but lately, it seems all the dps we make is for naught, and its taken as a personal affront....
    -Soteria-, Livx and DoomDrake like this.
  11. Kioske Well-Known Member

    I know that Warlocks were the kings of AoM, but they weren't doubling the DPS of ANY other T1 DPSer. As it stands right now, an equally geared and equally played Sorcerer vs Beastlord/Conj/Ranger, the sorcerer is worth half the DPS, and each of those other 3 classes bring better utility to a raid force. I think people commenting on this and playing it off really aren't seeing how wide the gap really is....
    Livx, DoomDrake and Mizgamer62 like this.
  12. Mizgamer62 Feldon Fan Club Member

    I play a wizard and I will continue to do so. I don't want to see other classes nerfed into oblivion, I just want to see us on a level playing field with other T1 dps classes. At this point in the game, I am done with alts.
    Luminiee, semisus, Zeddicious and 2 others like this.
  13. Veta Well-Known Member

    Although I agree, for the most part, with the half the dps statement, I disagree with the 3 classes bringing "better" utility.

    Beastlord doesn't offer any, if much, good utility, unless you are including the heal stance. The heal stance would require a spec swap as well as a significant dps loss for the heal spec to work effectively. A dps beastlord wouldn't be able to provide much healing utility if things start to take a turn in the middle of combat

    Ranger only provides a 5% max hp, which I is a lot but doesn't stack with multiple rangers, as far as useful utility would be concerned. In this case, the assassin brings a lot more utility with a permanent group damage proc (which does more dps than the nature's focus proc and nature's focus is a temp) as well as more max hp debuffs.

    Conj has bubble which requires a specific prestige setup, group stoneskins for 3 triggers if hit is less than 50% hp, with the epic buff fire seeds is good, but other than that any utility provided is rather useless. You could count the AE auto and attack speed incrementing buff but that loses increments if someone in the group dies and there is no AE content, except trash.

    Warlock provides great group power replenish, target spell range radius reduction (which is good on some specific encounters this expac), high group magical damage reduction ability, most spec propogation by default, 2 self-wards which help with their survivability and the survivability of their group (this takes priority over shaman wards, leaving more collective group ward for the group), and have the dark pact group proc.

    Wizard provides frigid gift, arcane tyrant group proc, high group magical damage reduction ability, and 2 self wards for the same reason as before.

    As far as what is "better" utility, I think the sorcerers are in favor on this one.
  14. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    you may add Sins to the list of those who is T1 but doing 1/2 or other trio (BL/Ranger/Conjuror)
    But with all honesty warlocks WERE doubling other classes DPS in some specific fights providing they had "the Hammer"
    Another question what you consider "utility"? - like say BL - yeah we can heal, ward a bit, power feed a bit but at cost of 50% DPS reduction (which is frankly feels not right in given situation - they BL in spiritual still can match sorcerer DPS AND provide utility in same time)
    Correct me if I wrong but right now utility been considered only troub and illy
  15. Mrmacky Active Member

    I agree.. as a fellow wizard myself I may as well allow the defiler to rename me and use me as their pet because thats how low my dps is.
    Mizgamer62 and Revanu like this.
  16. Yards Well-Known Member

    I have to rely on my scorched erf ancient just to barely compete with some healers. Healers beating some T1 dps classes, some tank classes are legitimately topping parses. The game is a mess.
    Zeee, Kioske and Mizgamer62 like this.
  17. Inesk Member

    I think that is why we are getting level increase. To help tjem with rebalance
    DoomDrake likes this.
  18. Kioske Well-Known Member

    Way to severely oversell the utility of Sin/lock/Wiz and severely undersell the utility of Rng/BL/Conj.

    Damage radius reduction is "nice" but does not make or break anything. It's the difference between jousting 18 meters and 20 meters on some fights, and who the hell jousts RIGHT to the minimum range? 20% less damage for 8 seconds every 90 seconds is not game breaking, I'd rather have the stoneskins (and the rune doesn't reset the reduction). The self wards? Only useful if you "spoof" them for the extra ward numbers (Which is a bug/exploit, technically), otherwise they sit at around 500k ward. Everyone can spec for the self ward from the dragon tree, which is actually the real ward that saves your ***.

    Power replenish is great on a warlock, I will give them that. (As long as everyone is within 7 meters of you) But if you're looking for power replenish, are you really looking at the warlock? Or are you expecting the coercer/Illy to get you? Half the time the melee in my group are within 2 meters of the named and the other mages are 19 meters from the named. My power feed doesn't really count as a full group feed at that point. And there is no power feed in raids this expac unless you meet fail conditions.

    The actual best utility from a warlock is left side spec'd beneficial spell duration increase of 18%. Only because it increases the duration of my own fervor spell that I spend all fight juggling.

    The Ranger HP debuff is actually 6.5%, and far outweighs anything the Warlock or Wizard have, and I believe it is a maximum of 2 that will stack (much like the Brigand). The Sin still has better total HP% Debuff but it isn't worth giving up half of your dps. Nature's focus is worth more damage than Miasma is, since none of the encounters this expac are AE, and is roughly on par with the damage output of Assassin's Hemotoxin, it just needs to be properly maintained. Passive damage during stun/joust phases in fights on the ranger/conj is huge compared to other classes. (Like when tanking Xalgoz, it helps immensely with holding aggro on that fight)

    The fervor from fireseed far outweighs ALL OTHER UTILITY of any of the T1's. The only other utility that comes close is the swash reset. (Which should have been a dirge spell)

    BL in spiritual can still out parse a warlock/wizard pretty easily while being one of the best healers/power feeders in the raid, save for a cure button and a curse cure. They can absolutely change mid combat without changing specs and still bring very good heals, not their top notch heals, but in a pinch I'd trust their wards over Dark Siphoning healing a group... I can't tell you how many times I've run expert heroics with a BL tanking, healing, and topping the parse in spiritual stance.

    Sorry this is a bit long winded, but you will never sell me that sorcerer utility is worth a good god damn over any of the other T1's.
    -Soteria- and Riktor like this.
  19. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    Well about BL :)
    Powerfeed really suck - we have couple good onebut they are siting within primal chain but guess what? to get that primal you need first have a least some power to spam advantage (which cost power). Yeah I did respeced myself to reduce cost of advantage on 50% but most don't do that. Saying that out of all power feeding classes - no one really can hold a candle for warlock (not even enchanters)
    Healing - before ward bleedthrough I'd agree with you - spamming second spiritual advantage would actually work better than any druid healing (granted) nowadays it do not help much - 4th advantage actually better choice (AoE group heal) in conjunction with bear warder (also built-in several AoE heals) but again its not real heal its more like druids HOT (yes you can offset some dot bleeding with it but not spike damage)
    And if BL topping parse in spiritual .. oh my ...
    As for BL tanking - yeah in regular heroics its not a big deal - any scout can do that, in experts only selected few could do that - I know at least 1 ranger who do that (expert barons) but that ranger need to have truly exceptional mystic behind his back to do that.
    In the nutshell if you have in a group more than 1 BL and if you have druid as healer than yeah I'd say it may be worth while run for BL in spiritual otherwise nah
  20. Kioske Well-Known Member

    You see what you guys turned this into? This is going to turn into every single thread where the OP classes come in here and defend how "not OP" they are.

    Doomdrake, BL left side specc'd in spiritual, and specc'd for all their power feed are some of the best power feeders in the game. If you think it sucks, you're doing it wrong. Even with bleedthrough, BL wards are hitting for 130+ million PER PERSON in their group. If you spec for all the heals/power feeds, and left side spec in spiritual a BL is easily one of the best healers in the game, while still doing "decent" DPS, mostly because your ravaging rune and ascension/epic 2.0 spells don't care that you are in spiritual. The only thing they lack is a cure button. Will a BL top the parse in raids in spiritual? Not in any guild that's worth a damn. I simply said that I've run with BL that will tank/heal/top parse in expert zones.

    For the love of god, stop trying to defend your class as "not that OP". In spiritual they are one of the best healers in the game, in feral they are the best DPS in the game. Give it a damn rest. Just because YOU are not OP playing the class does not mean that it doesn't have the highest OP potential in the game.
    -Soteria- likes this.