SOE, what is the role of berserker? Cuz, its sure not tank

This thread reeks of newb, zerkers (along with SK's and ammended paladins) are the best heroic tanks in TSO hands down. Brawlers and guardians lag far behind in aoe aggro. Lol, monks get 1 encounter taunt and 2 weak aoes.
75% of the trash in the new instances is linked encounters and a good proportion of the new bosses are also encounters.
As far as raids go Zerkers, paladins and SK are the best offtanks and aoe tanks, and I have seen zerkers tank all ROK raid instance bosses easily.
Zerkers (along with SK's) are the new black.

Mogzilla wrote:

But dude the issues you mentioned are ones that are never going to fixed right now. I'm not even going to get into the Brawler argument because its darn clear SOE has NO idea what your role is, in raids especially, so I'm not getting into that mess.
I may annoy some zerkers by saying this but currently, (maybe after fighter 2.0 it will change) the tank balance is to an extent borked. I remember when I rolled my first zerker the issue was "we are the offensive tank, they are the defensive tank, so why do they do almost as much dps as us?" This was when single target tanking was the norm. In this regard the balance is better than it has been in some time, BUT the degree of advantage a Guard has over us in Single target (and it is there) is less than the advantage we hold in terms of AoE.
SOE however can't seem to make up its mind as to how to balance the tank. One year its offense vs defense. Now its Single Target vs AoE. The conflict here is nuts. With how the classes have evolved from lauch till now, when you look at class balance it has to be aggro/dps/surviveability. This is not too hard to balance when you were using the old ofense/defense model. Now you have Single/AoE. If you make an "AoE tank" at least functional in Single target across the board, you end up increasing his AoE ability. You increase the single target tanks ability in AoE to close the gap there (in all three realms), he is now leaps an bounds ahead again of the AoE tank in terms of single target, since anything that you can use to smack 5 guys can be focused on just 1.
If this game was just about end game raiding where you had MT and OT this wouldn't be an issue. Throw Instances in though and then how SOE designs the content creates the mess.
We can all say "my class needs this" or "that class needs to loose that". We an even see these changes implemented and all it will do is majorly bork up a sytem that is currently minorly borked because the base model is simply unworakable. Without a major overall of the classes from the base level and an overhaul of content design we are stuck either in an imperfect world for some classes (which this game has always been) or an endless mess of inconsistency for all classes using the current model of AoE bs Single target.
There is some hope that a miracle is generated by 2.0. I hope the miracle comes. But Looking at past history my faith is less than strong.

Gisallo@Lucan DLere wrote:

I will let you in on a little secret, you and SK's are now just as OP as guards were in ROK.
With 75% of the content being multi mob encounters, you guys are outparsing scouts in heroic content and the difference in single target aggro is much smaller then it was in ROK with the reduced recast on rescue and all the new rescue like fighter abilities.
Where is the AOE rescue? Oh thats right there isnt one, its all single target.

Mogzilla wrote:

That doesn't make us as OP as Guards were in RoK. That's a content issue, not a class issue. And it's only true of heroic content, not raids. It was just as true in VoES for all of 2008. It's nothing new.
I think a LITTLE bit of faith is due. When Aeralik & Co. sat down and focused on Ranger changes, they did OK. When they sat down and made Coercer & general chanter changes, they rocked. Yeah, they refused to address the blatant LIES in Adrenaline's description for a year, but when they actually ADDRESS things their recent track record could be lots worse.

Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:

One of the main reasons guards were considered OP in ROK was because the expansion was custom tailored to their tanking strengths with little content that might expose their weaknesses (aoe aggro).
The common complaint was that their dps was to high for the amount of survivability they had, which had more to do with a lack of aoe content then their anything else.
SK also suffered from the same fate in ROK except worse because some of the basic mechanics of their class were very flawed, like 2 second cast times, crap itemization, etc.
Now we have gone from ROK that was 80% one mob to TSO that is 80% more then one mob, and single target aggro has been boosted alot on all fighters with all the new rescue like abilities and the reduced recast on rescue.
This expansion plays completely to SK and zerker strs and their weaknesses (single target aggro) have been boosted quite a bit with all the new rescue like abilities and the reduced cast time on rescue.
Say what you want about guardians but they were never outparsing well played scouts on the zonewide in instances.
I have seen zerkers just flat out own brigs and rangers in instances with tons of aoe content in terms of dps.

Mogzilla wrote:

Um.. ya i'd expect us to outparse brigs and rangers. They arent AE dps classes. Thats like comparing apples to oranges. AoE agro control for zerks comes from hitting all the mobs around us. Obviously ACT is going to show higher dps.

Elanjar@Nagafen wrote:

And neither are zerkers, they supposed to be AE tanks.
My bruiser is supposed to be a single target tank, yet I never out dps a well played aoe dps class like warlock, swash or conj on single targets.
Heck I barely out dps a zerker on a single target, but they completely own me in a AE heavy environment

Hey, speaking as my Conjuror, if my group tank outparses me, it's probably because he's buffed that way. To which I'm totally cool with!

Mogzilla wrote:

Please note this is only in reference to your comments regarding zerkers out dpsing scouts.
Well A) a zerker should out dps you in an AE environment.
B) the zerker still uses dps as 80% of his AE aggro management.
C) a single target classes will ALWAYS be at a disadvantage in an AE encounter.
D) it is currently impossible to have a class defined as an AE class and not have them appear OP'd while maintaining relevancy in a single target context.
E) it is still possible for a single target class to maintain relevance in an AE encounter (you should be assisting through the tank anyway right?)
D)all warriors will often top or place higher than some scouts on the parse under the right circumstances because of abilities and gear they have that proc off of being the focus of attack.
E) thus simply saying "zerkers do more dps than some scouts" means nothing without knowing class, gear, player skill and encounter circumstance.

maybe you should roll an AE class then Mogzilla, because we had very little AE content for quite some time.
.
^ is my tiny violin playing a song just for you.
btw, we only own on AE parses WHEN we are buffed to tank them. the other night i had a warlock trying to prove something, he proved he could do AE dps and find the mender still because i had no hate transfers and my dps mod was very low.
i sat by and watched guards be default tanks for years, now you want to try and nerf us back down to being substandard now that there is content that we excel in? yea... how about you go back to your forum and try to fix your class from there instead, to which ALL brawlers need to figure out if they are DPS or tanks and not both then i may take their arguments seriously(when you are put in front of a group any tank appears to be DPS but that is NOT their only function and pretty soon you will likely see that tanks will be doing less DPS while tanking). as of now, it is all just alot of spattered hot air from an unfocused group of players, some wanting to be T1 DPS because they feel they are not tanks and others wanting to raid tank while retaining their DPS above all other tanks and also have the best raid buffs for desirability. i do agree you need a form of more survivability but i am not a brawler, you need to work out your own issues instead of trying to bring others down when they finally feel useful.

Gisallo@Lucan DLere wrote:

Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:

So let me see......Zerkers finally get some love from the DEV's so all the other classes (who have had much love previously) come to our threads to b#$ch and moan about what needs to be done to their class?

If you truly want your class to be fixed and want the DEV's to listen, write a very well informed, educated post that details what you purpose and how they can accommodate those proposals. If you make their jobs easier, then stuff gets done quicker (golden rule of IT).

You posting in Zerker forums is not going to miraculously get < FILL IN CLASS HERE > fixed.

Grimmly@Unrest wrote:

i'll give you that that this thread is stupid but it is no more stupid than a number of posts on ANY class forum, now if we all went and cross posted on those posts what good would it do? seriously?

Mogzilla wrote:

Gisallo@Lucan DLere wrote:

Mogzilla wrote:

here we go with musical colors again

Gisallo@Lucan DLere wrote: