So, yay, raid armor itemization

Not yet ... and not likely will .. those who did not had T2-3 fully infused gear not likely going to compete with your guys anyway because the speed of their gearing no where near close to yours .. It's like situation with AOM 2/2 purple gear when TOT was just released ... I heard tones of whines about how raiders been screwed and that general crowd going to catch up with them in TOT just by doing AS/Sig line ... you remember that right?

My gear is less effective as of Wednesday afternoon than it was the night before, because the new gear that drops from the exact same mobs is substantially better.

*edit*Also, from looking at your u.eq2wire profile, it appears that you don't raid. If I had all heroic gear on I wouldn't care too much as a replacement set can be acquired in less than 50 hours of repeat play. But, I've already spent around 200 hours this expansion on farm kills to get a marginal boost in gear to beat my face against the T3 raid mobs because my guild has population retention problems at times. So I have effectively wasted that time because DBG decided to give me a pointless boost to my gear instead of just giving me the gear that "replaced" it in the drop tables.

*second edit* I'm also sure you noticed this already given the state of this thread, but existing gear received only a marginal improvement (<3%), which is negligible compared to the boost given to newly dropping gear.

It comes back to the point where the decision that would have made EVERYONE happy was simple, retroactively boost the gear and increase the gap between heroic/em/hm raid.

Then, instead of 8 pages of complaints in 24 hours, you'd receive a heartfelt thank you from the community.

The reason NOT to do it is to artificially increase length of time spent farming content.

Considering even your top 1% was only ~45-55% geared in 'current BIS', there's just no need to pull shady moves like this.

Giving whoever made the decision an 'out' via 'well this is better than nothing! stop complaining!' is like when you give your kid a new bike but it has no wheels. Better than nothing, right?! Except I don't even truly agree that this IS better than nothing, since it trivializes already easy content.

No I no longer raid, I replaced all of my old raid gear with first AoM and then ToT Heroic and I'm happy with it.

And no your gear did not become less effective, you and the rest of the raiders need to stop saying silly nonsense like that, or to quote Darkon, "bikes without wheels"... seriously just stop, you are just making yourselves look bad.

Pretty sure idiot is not a strong enough description, in this case...because you keep saying that we "got something for free" and myself and others actually PAY (making it NOT FREE) for this kind of mediocre service that SHOULD HAVE BEEN DELT WITH IN BETA, making this, definitely, a legitimate issue to voice our disappointment. The fact that YOU and your cronies are in the minority here speaks volumes...you may settle for mediocrity in game development tactics, but I, and apparently the majority here, choose not to. It's really that simple.

You're right, the stats on my gear are no worse than they were before the Wednesday patch, but they are relatively terrible when compared to the new raid loot. Thus, DBG has in essence told me the 200 hours that I have spent farming raid mobs with my guild so far this expansion is worthless because we now need to farm all the mobs again in order to replace our gear and push towards more kills.

*edit* Also, all of us raiders KNOW that our gear will become obsolete eventually, whether it be because of a new expansion or a set of fabled zones with better gear, what we're complaining about is that our gear was made obsolete in the exact same content because (I can only assume) DBG wants us to keep grinding this content to keep people playing the game. And incentivizing repeat playthroughs of the game through trivialization of drops is a terrible way to handle an MMO even though it works in games like Borderlands because the entire game is based around the gear crawl towards the next spike.

This is it exactly. Players have already spent time farming the content, and now, all that time gets a big "Oh, just kidding!" from the development team.

The itemization in this expansion was a mess in beta, and the development was informed that the player base perceived it as such. Those concerns were ignored. Now, the proper fixes are finally implemented, but instead of fixing the broken mess, they added "new" gear that was where it should have been all along?

Sometimes I just don't understand. This is one of those times. Sadly.

This pretty much says it all in a nutshell...

And thank you devs for allowing another work day to pass without any other response than suck it.

Save it Loran...he is apparently not intelligent enough to see that people like us value our time spent in game, and prefer not to waste another 200 hours, like you did, again...

Edit: Technically he is right, you don't really need to farm the mobs again, since they made no changes to the Mobs themselves, but that really isn't the point here, is it. The point is: 1) this should have been dealt with in Beta, 2) people are not happy about the process in which this happened, and 3) there is a simple fix, which would make pretty much most of the playerbase, that are complaining, happy! Let's getter-done DBG and move forward on a more pleasant note, mmkay?

Oh here we go with the "Only the raider's time in game matters!" BS again. And knock it off with the insults, just because I don't agree with you does not reflect on my intelligence.

The change did NOTHING to change where you are on your progression. NOTHING.

You can either go back and redo all the same content again, because you (for some insane reason) equate your self worth with your gear, or you can ignore this change and continue on your progression path.

I'm not saying that only raiders time matters, I just wouldn't mind the change as much if i only grouped because I could acquire a new set of armor in <50 hours of play time. And I don't equate my self worth with my gear, I'm just pissed that DBG took my 200+ hours of time spent grinding gear and made it worthless.

You being in the group of people whining, does not make you the majority... nor does we people calling you out on it make us the minority.

In fact both groups are minorities, the majority of the EQ2 players (including most raiders) probably don't care one way or the other.

And those of you refusing to acknowledge the fact that your gear did indeed get better (what I call getting something for free) makes me wonder how you handle change in real life. I can only hope much better than you do in regards to changes in a game.

But as with the majority of the threads here, those with the weakest argument, are those who resort to insults first and that the insults already have started proves my point.

The first part wasn't directed at you, you have handled your part of this discussion without resorting to name calling or being insulting.

The bolded part of my post however, most certainly was directed at you and all the others in this thread who keep using the word worthless, when we both know that is very far from the truth.

Your vomiting of repeated strawman arguments and quotes taken out of context disgust me. It forces me to repeat the same two line logic repeatedly, which you have never even once contended, or contested in any way.

The simple fix would have been to boost all the gear to the new levels. The only reason not to do that is a shady policy of artificially extending the life of content.

Stop derailing the thread. It's against TOS.

Does it make you feel speshul when you insult him and devs? How old are you? 15? The way you talk to others. GG. Go, get laid or something.

You tell me, if it was freely sellable and those that have this old gear were able to sell it on broker, how much do you think people would pay for gear from the game's top raids considering that BETTER gear can now easily be obtained from heroics? It wouldn't be much. So, no, you're right, it's not 100% worthless. But it's certainly worth about 95% less. People barely wanted to buy top end gear before, but buying stuff that's worse than heroic? lol. Yeah, "worthless" is not technically correct, but it's pretty accurate and sounds better. Common sense and stuff.

There was also another very simple way to get this stuff into the game - just add Hard Mode versions of the current raid zones with the new loot. Don't even need to change strats (although it would be nice), but just increase resist requirements, making people have to have stuff from previous raids. At least these new zones would be on separate timers and people could decide if they want to invest the time in the upgrades.

We're not arguing that our gear was made worthless by this patch, but the rather the time we spent farming mobs (not the time spent working on progression) because they have essentially reset the gear grind back to where we would have been at the launch of the expansion if this is what gear was like back then.

Oooooh I like that a lot. Then maybe we'd have something to do once we steamrolled all the current raid content...

We're going to go ahead and close this up. For those of you who remained within the forum guidelines, thank you. For those of you who didn't, I'll be in touch or we'll see you back in a week.