So, Worth coming back at all

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Atan, Apr 6, 2017.

  1. Tanix Member

    Through the power of literacy you are correct. Maybe I should spend a bit more time reading closely!

  2. Skpamd Active Member

    Like others have said it depends on what you want. A year and a half ago I came to realize this was my game and gave up trying the next fad mmo because always after a couple of weeks I come back here. No other game has the content of this game or the decorating (except Sims), it is hard to get bored. The community for the most part is still the best except for those that spam general channel with their endless blabber on how wonderfully smart and rich they are compared to everyone else. And of course their are still the same fights over politics (avoid at all cost and turn off channel when that starts), and what is better LOL, Star Wars or Star Trek.

    With that being said you must be aware that it is hard, especially on the older servers, to get groups. Most people want to solo now or play only with those they know to avoid loot drama. Yet even with that Daybreak still tries to enforce grouping which is causing population drops on the older servers. If they would adjust the game appropriately to match the communities and population needs it would help tremendously, but Daybreak seems to be wearing wool earmuffs.

    There are rumors that they are going to do another server merge, which personally I hope is not true. Especially if they handle it like they did before where players and guilds that were made first got to keep their names regardless if they hadn't been on or inactive for years and years. So if you log in and you have x's or z's on your name or guild that is why (you will get a free rename). Honestly before they do that they need to do a clean house of guild names and character names (inactive for 5-10 years) opening up those names and guild cloak design-ability. As well Daybreak did a ban about a year ago of players that were deemed cheating. Some innocent players (a lot were not innocent don't get me wrong, and they deserved it) got caught up in it and have refused to come back, which is sad.

    Also the stats are wow so difficult and it feels like you need a math degree to figure it all out. Another thing that casual weekend players do not have the time for or the want to do. As well the gear is hard to figure out. Get a piece of gear that is what you think is an upgrade but then after a further look you realize you lose stats in other places, without any guarantee you will be able to find something to replace what you lost. Adornments, well there are far too many of them, instead of grouping things together. As for Ascension, which I have gotten two spells I love, but the cast and recast times are very slow. As well the developers didn't even consider that most of us already have full hot bars with no where to place the new spells unless you remove other things that for a reason we have hot barred and need. At the least they should have combined spells or given us another one or two hot bars, but once again no one seems to be listening.

    The next thing that seems to be an issue lately is the server down time which seems to be far more than we ever have, which for a 12-13 year old game seems odd, and the length of time it is down is longer than it ever has been. For example this week for many people it is spring break and many players are home. It just seems a poor decision to be bringing down the servers instead of letting us play (LOL and where is double xp).

    I would recommend if your going to come back, unless you have a higher level character on the older servers, try either Stormhold or the Isle of Refugee servers. Personally I would do Isle of Refugee if I was starting over because of the ability to buy and sell pretty much everything on the broker (removal of lore/heirloom restrictions). On the older servers the economy is out of control, especially with SLR, which has made the cost of gear out of control causing a massive economic unbalance for players that can only play but a couple of days a week. I personally don't want to sit in a guild hall crafting adornments when I can only play for a few hours on the weekend.

    If you decide to come back, welcome back, like I said for the most part the community is still the best with amazing people and the game is still, 12-13 years later, the best mmo out there.
    Meneltel likes this.
  3. Dageekpimp Member

  4. Dageekpimp Member

    I am married with 3 kids and have a full time job, yet I still find enough time to log into a "Game" and have fun. So what if it takes me a little longer to get something that a single person with no job has, it doesn't make them inferior to the all mighty married person. And yes people now days cry because they rush to end game and have nothing to do, yet, when there is something to do they cry because they can't finish it in a day, so they run away to another game that involves more grinding than what they have in front of them. I love this game even with it's faults, but, to encourage people every day to run to some other game, how is that going to help fix this game. Less people means less money to fix problems. we need to encourage people to help rebuild this game. New people read these forums all the time and see all the negative posts and never even try the game and move on. More people than you realize.
  5. RedvsBlue Well-Known Member

    The problem now is and always was the players. Back in the day you bought a game and played it for what it was. You didn't try to alter it, give yourself an advantage. There were no forums to cry about it. This game has shed a lot of old school caring players. Things change and usually never for the better as far as gaming in general goes. They will continue to whine/complain no matter how you plead. The time to turn it around was like 9 years ago. Little late to worry about it now lol.
    DoomDrake likes this.
  6. Tanix Member

    There is still a chance for them to "turn it around" to an extent. Maybe not in the MMO paid service to a centralized gaming company way as we have known MMOs to be, but in another way...

    That is, they could make an effort to package up the server code into a product where some can run their own servers. Sell that off (maybe 100-200 bucks per one time server license, or even a sub plan for server owners), sell clients for it (20-30 bucks), and then sell content packs (ie new expansions and content both for the server and client).

    By doing this, the "turn it around" is dependent on each person who decides to run a server and since the server, its world building engine and customization will be sold with the server package, people will be able to modify the game anyway they see fit. Granted those who run a server will have to be knowledgeable (like most private server hosts are),but it would allow any flavor of EQ2 servers to exist AND if Daybreak was smart, they would authorize these private people to charge for subs, with of course a portion going to Daybreak.

    This solves the "all the old school MMOs are dead" problem and it promotes the concept of people playing what they want, how they want rather than being subject to the mass market opinion.

    Thing is, if they don't act on this sooner, the survival game market will achieve MMO like design and behavior and the above venture will have much less draw.

    I always thought all the MMO companies who had old products like this should do that. It would breathe a whole new market for them.
    Meneltel and Prissetta like this.
  7. RedvsBlue Well-Known Member

    I would have to respectfully disagree with you. Not in the sense that what you mentioned couldn't happen but the end all be all for the coding itself. Technology has advanced, the gamer population has changed, and on top of all of that even if it went to someone else who could overcome those hurdles there is no guarantee they will take the game in the direction that people want. So much of the player base is split and asking for different things. I seriously don't see them meeting eye to eye just for the sole purpose of putting life back into the game. The fact that people have to pay to be better than others has already destroyed all hope of fixing that model in my mind. I think its either clean slate or let it go. I know the devs would kill to have help and could give us better mechanics/content if they had it, but I really don't see people going head over heels for a game this old with a population that more than likely doesn't exceed 30k anymore. Wishful thinking though. Sorry freaking realist over here....o_O
  8. Meaghan Stormfire Well-Known Member

    Would you have rather everyone lied and told him everything was great? Everyone who replied gave their honest assessment. If that honest assessment was "No, it's not worth coming back," then that's Daybreak's fault, not ours.

    And I haven't seen anyone whining about rushing to the end and getting bored. Gating mechanics largely exclude the possibility of "rushing to the end." I see people upset over artificial gating mechanics, forced backflagging of seven year old content, stat bloat, crappy ascension mechanics, and a dozen or so other legitimate concerns. Your "rush to the end and whine about getting bored" assessment rings particularly hollow this go around. It's almost as if you haven't actually been paying attention.
  9. Dageekpimp Member

    Oh, I have been paying attention Meaghan, and it is exactly what I mean. People complained about there being nothing to do once they were maxed out after rushing to end, so this new expac they made it more challenging so it wouldn't be fully ran in a day or two. Now people complain that there is way too much to do. Oh no, the world is going to end, I can't rush it all and be bored. People can express their feelings but pushing people to other games because you can't finish the expac in less than a week is a little too... yea ok. Not everyone plays the game the same way, but with all the negativity, how is that supposed to help. There is constructive criticism, and then there is Toxic criticism, which it seems the more vocal minority like to spew.
  10. Tanix Member

    This is what private servers solve. You see, there are already numerous private servers for other games out there. For instance, EQ has a ton of private servers all dedicated to different play styles (EQ 1999 is one), WoW has many other private servers, etc.... This is the same for many others out there. All this would do is legitimize many pursuits (there are currently attempts in the works to create a private EQ2 server as we speak, Vanguard as well....). All this solution would do is legitimize them, even make them MUCH MUCH easier as they wouldn't have to reverse engineer everything due to the company releasing the development engines with the server packages.

    As it is right now, they have to build their own server engines from scratch using what they gather from the packet collections people have captured while playing on the live servers with their clients.

    So it is entirely realistic when you consider that they would be releasing their world building, server, and management software with the server sales. It would put private servers light years ahead of where they are now.

    The result would be TONS of private servers, all trying to compete for different play styles, different designs, etc.... Some would go official (ie trying to sell subs and be "professional" in their development) while some would just create a private server for friends and family to play. Both would be successful (many private servers actually have 1000;s of dollars of donations by players to keep them running.

    So it isn't a matter IF this would be successful, it is really a matter of how much it would be compared to the profits they are pulling in from the official servers. Eventually, EQ2 will die off and it will not be justified to keep it open regardless of FTP gimmicks or subs. My point is that they need to do what I describe before that time is reached or they will lose out on the profit potential from private server sales.

    They wait too long, and as I said... the "survival" game phenomenon will make this idea of MMO's irrelevant as they will do everything an MMO can do, with better graphics, better development engines, etc... ALL under the players control to tailor a server as they see fit. Just look to what Funcom is doing with Conan: Exiles. They are seriously trying to create an MMO like experience with private "survival" based server design. Even 7 days to Die is going the route of an MMO like design and play. Daybreak can get on board, catch that wave of concept by releasing the server software or... they wait too long and even nostalgia will not save them. People won't care about some old backwards MMO game like EQ2 when a private server is doing everything EQ can and better.

    Timing is everything.
  11. RedvsBlue Well-Known Member

    I understand the concept. What I originally stated was that the players destroyed the game (obviously not the only ones to blame, but sure make up the bulk of the game decisions). Person X could release a PvP server but that doesn't mean that the toxic players won't make their way back to it or that it will even suit the new gamers out there. Pantheon is essentially EQ with some fat trimmed off of it. There are so many games like this I am actually shocked that people are sticking around for it.

    Probably the single biggest punch in the gut for me was when friends walked away. I know others can vouch for me when I say that relying on gen pop for progression is often troublesome. People used to have their little groups/guilds that had fun and when those started disappearing and returning players were finding things had changed too much it was rough getting people to come back. I often think that once gone a lot of the players won't come back simply because a bad taste was left in their mouth. I could be wrong though. I know they could release the old content with the old code but I would be willing to bet everything I own that the population wouldn't rise quite like you would think. I also wonder how the marketplace/kronos would be handled. Would people play if those were removed? There are a lot of variables to consider with a private server. People want fast, they want free, and they want it their way (Even though the slogan says otherwise). If you don't use all three of them you won't attract a new a crowd and those 3 things are everything EQ was not designed to be imo. I know a lot of people including my old guildies who have moved on and I have tried to get them to come back and they have a few times. The fact that they were not happy with it multiple times tells me they have had enough. Sucks but just a different perspective.
  12. Tanix Member

    Private servers have the benefit of not caring what the market thinks, or what random protesters think. If you remember Winters Roar, a very early EQ private server that eventually turned into Shard of Dalya, the designer "Wiz" didn't care what the average objector thought. He had a vision as to what he wanted the server to be and everyone who disagreed could bugger off! It worked quite well and he had around 1-2k subs before Sony went after him. Point is, the server admin is the controller and they can do what they want as they want and they don't have to cater to the public.

    As for Pantheon, they have a good start, but too many mainstreamers who talk crap about being "old school" flood their forums. While the game will be (so far) a darn sight better than anything out today, it runs the risk of being dumbed down by all the modern gamers who think gaming is "entertainment" and all about giving the gamer fluffy feelings of victory.

    The problem is that official companies always tend to focus on the "average", they go business, not game developers. The result is attending to the lowest common denominator to maximize profit. This is not how the gaming industry began in the 80's-90's, it is the result of business taking over the gaming market and turning it into a transaction process. They stopped making "games" in the early 2000's and began making "profits" which is what most games after that became... gimmicks to maximize profits.

    You seem, to be missing the point here....

    Private serves means YOU or I could run the server, we call the shots. We can change all the rules to the game. We could make it that every time you cough you gain a level, or we could make it so that you have to grind 100 days to get 1 exp. The choice is of the person who runs and modifies the game on their private server. The number of possible servers are endless. you could have people running servers and catering to mainstream, acting just like Daybreak does, or.. you could have some corner developers who tweak the game to major old school as they like and they could not charge a dime for it.

    Do you understand the concept of selling the server rights to people?
    Prissetta likes this.
  13. RedvsBlue Well-Known Member

    I am simply considering the odds of the game being the way it was when it was booming. I don't care to be on a server with 1-2k players as they are in that neighborhood right now give or take. The last raid I went to I acknowledged that people were hard pressed to let me go because bards are next to impossible to recruit anywhere. You need the Massive part of MMO for it to even be worth while for a lot of us. Yea they could do this or that and make it free but that doesn't necessarily mean it will work out. There is a lot of stuff to be fixed and tested, A LOT! I think maybe had SoE sent it off rather than DBG getting it, there might have been a chance that it would be up by now and running. You never know though. Some people care more about this game than eating and sleeping lmao!
    Mathafern likes this.
  14. Atan Well-Known Member

    I can certainly respect your viewpoint here, but my decision was based upon feedback in the thread from forum users that know me and my playstyle. I'm a rush to the end but still do all the content kind of player. I've had 24 classes at cap, epic'd, fully raid geared with little left to accomplish at several points in this game's history.

    Given my understanding of the barrier to entry to the playstyle that would interest me at the current moment in time is why I'm electing another game for now, that is really all it comes down to.

    If I had not left the game, I'd probably be here arguing why the current system is good because it rewards the people that put in the same type of effort that I used to put forward.

    It is a bit of a quandry in game design about rewarding your loyal players verses barrier to entry of new players. The reality is in a game this old, there are little to no 'new players', so catering to your veterans makes a lot of sense.
    DoomDrake likes this.
  15. Tanix Member

    Again, you are missing the point. Numbers are relative. Class requirements or need is relative.

    A private server is infinite in occurrence (ie there may be numerous amounts of servers) and they may be vast in their requirements and design. They may be only 20, 50, 100 or a few hundred playing. Their designs in classes, conditions and requirements may reflect that. The instances of occurrence are endless.

    For some, only the massive numbers of bodies matter, sure.. this "may" be your requirement and this "may" occur, but it may not either. You see, many of us who played MMOs in the early days don't play them much anymore (I only came back to try the TLE, other than that, I haven't played an MMO in a few years). For us, the game play matters, it is first and foremost, not a bunch of bodies. In the end, what you want will either happen or die regardless what I suggest is provided. You see, people like me don't play these games because they are no longer games, they are pointless chat rooms where people are handed prizes for being present. We won't play these games the way you wan them, but we will play them if given the options as I described.

    You are making unsupported assumptions. The reason what I suggest isn't being done is because of profit potential. As it is right now, they think they can make more money holding on to the rights, controlling their market. That has nothing to do with what will work, what is good, what people will buy. It has everything to do with them being scared of losing money over what they have now and if you know anything about business, it is a long list of companies who have sunk themselves protecting their pennies while losing dollars because they were afraid of losing too much.

    IN the end, the point is.. with a private server I can make the game I WANT and provide it to people who agree with me and those who I don't want playing I can turn away. You see, with private servers, the need to appeal to the "masses" is irrelevant. I bought the server software, I code it the way I see fit, I decide who will play. It is a win/win for anyone who is tired of the tantrum throwing entitled masses demanding special treatment today. It means, the servers are then designed for game play, and not because they are trying to appeal to some tantrum throwing moron who goes on about "fun" and how the game should attend to their every desire.

    Basically, we get an infinite number of serves an choices to fit those players desires.
    RedvsBlue and Prissetta like this.
  16. Meaghan Stormfire Well-Known Member

    The new expac made it more time consuming to reach the end not through deep challenging content, or by even providing ample content to consume. They made it by installing artificial gates that force you to play through the same minimal amount of content repeatedly. As a result, people don't make it to end game and get bored, that kicks in well before the end now.

    The time for constructive criticism is over. It was given. It was declared unwanted and ignored.
  17. Vladislav Active Member

    Whether or not it is worth coming back depends on your needs. If you want to jump into raiding within a week, then no. If you want to explore, complete quests and catch up on lore while grouping with guildmates - sure. I think this game is definitely worth the time and a sub. It still offers far more to me than any other MMO on the market: housing, great variety of quest rewards, achievements, lore, built-in VC for every group, flying in most zones, fast travel, great guild support, completionist-friendly. good graphics and shinies!
    Prissetta likes this.
  18. RedvsBlue Well-Known Member

    Not everyone is solo or small group based in the game. I won't go shoot off numbers on raiders/heroic players making up more of the player base because I honestly don't have a clue whether that is accurate or not. I happen to sit in that category myself. I started raiding in RoK and my first raid was Venril (this was the first real eye opener I had in this game and I discovered that this was the type of challenge I was interested in). With very few players that we have now it is pretty difficult to recruit for the right classes to fill the raid (especially utility). Of course back in RoK it wasn't all the difficult to swap classes but I question whether people would be willing to do that knowing that the private server would feel a lot like an event server. I struggle to see it lasting all that long because people know the content so well now.

    The thrill happened because it was new to us. Yes it will be quite a bit more difficult and involved than it is now but I highly doubt it will take as long to complete some of the tasks for each expansion. Some people like me don't even need the wiki for waypoints because we have done sig/heritage quests so many times. I really do hope that someone takes advantage of this opportunity. I would even give it a shot to see how well it does but if it feels like its dwindling again I won't stick around for it. I enjoy the social interaction more than running the same quest over and over on 30+ characters. It really depends on who gets it and their main focus for play styles I guess.
  19. CoLD MeTaL Well-Known Member

    What other game, if you don't mind me asking?
    Jrox likes this.
  20. Tanix Member

    Like I said, this is all relative. Keep in mind that Winters Roar had near 1k players constantly, with many raids specially designed by Wiz and the content completely moved around and changed to fit his own progression and concepts. Think in terms of the "survival" games out there like Ark, Conan: Exile, etc... where people have completely mod'd the game to their own design. In terms of EQ2, raids, classes, etc.. could all be tweaked in any manner the server admin/developer wants. That is, content could be adjusted to the population, classes can be tweaked with slight redesigns and role adaption. Like I said, it is all relative.

    Not for me. New was never the issue. You see, I was playing computer games since they were originally created, I played most of the MMOs when they first came into existence. It is not "newness" or a feeling of "nostalgia" to which I seek, it is game play that no longer exists in the current MMO models. I can't have the game design I want because it doesn't exist anymore. Everything exists as it is now, which is more focused on "entertainment" than it is on "game play".

    The idea of private servers is that anything is then possible. You could have what you want (a server with lots of people playing all focused to raiding and the like), I could have a server I like which is focused on heavy progression development and game play. Everyone wins because in an open system like I describe, you can make what you like, the way you like it. That is how private servers came about in the first place. Some people got tired of what the gaming companies were doing with the MMOs and so they reverse engineered the server software and started building a server according to their own idea of what it should be.

    In this solution, everyone wins as the ability to make a certain type of focus server is much more accessible by the company legally selling the server software and development tools. Will it bring back the days of 100's of thousands of subs? Millions? Nope... but I don't think most who want to play a solid MMO are demanding that. They simply want to play some of their old MMOs they are familiar with designed and held to a lot of the old concepts they were released with.

    If they were to do such, I would bet there would be some solid private servers up with unique and interesting themes, designs, and focuses all serving any flavor of play you like. It is a win/win. As it is now, the only people getting what they want are those who specifically want a FTP/PTW model with content designed for casual play or mainstream focus. It is why most people who were around for the inception of MMOs really don't play them anymore as they are nothing like they used to be and we played them for different reasons than many players of today do.


    In relation to your points about play, I am talking about systems with no way points, no maps, forced first person view (so you can't cheat corners and surroundings), death penalties both exp loss and corpse runs. I am talking about quests where there are no markers, no icons on the maps to give you indicators, just text in your quest log with a deductive and cryptic style of play. I am talking about exp being extremely slow where questing alone isn't enough to level you, where gaining a level takes a large amount of time, forcing you to explore, and squeeze every inch of content out of the game, where rare drops and mobs are actually rare, causing you to spend time to hunt and hope for an encounter. Where nobody gets a handout, a freebie, a "help", where what you gain is what you earned, where rewards are good, but the risk to obtain them is according.

    My list goes on and on, but this does not exist in MMOs today, but.. on a private server of my own making or someone who thinks like me, it is possible.