So what do we want from our might be, possibly, Soon(tm) revamp?

Discussion in 'Dirge' started by ARCHIVED-Jalek, Dec 13, 2006.

  1. ARCHIVED-Jalek Guest

    In groups or raids i use this both in emergencies on the tank or if im rezzing i can then pump them back up in health too very fast.

    A power tap would be nice but emergency heal is better for me.
  2. ARCHIVED-TheSummoned Guest

    I'd also like us to gain more DPS, so we're concidered less of a buff bot! Maybe some self buffs in forms of dances (bards danced too ya know!) that would:

    - increase DPS mod by X every Y seconds
    - have a 50% chance for a minor disease proc for X seconds
    - etc... (can't think of any more!)
  3. ARCHIVED-Krooner Guest

    X4 the damage from Lanets and make it a 1min recast. ( Yeah X4 is justified considering how they nerfed it )
    Double the damage on Banshee by making it dot more often.
    Do the same for SoD.
    That would go a long way.
  4. ARCHIVED-TheSummoned Guest

    I'd like more abilities that need some thought put into it and not just a flat increase on our existing damage arts. I'd even be willing to give up a few abilities (like grievance) for those abilities I listed.
    Message Edited by TheSummoned on 01-04-2007 11:52 PM
  5. ARCHIVED-Unwise Guest

    (1) Hehe, this will not make me any friends, but I think we should continue using concentration slots for our self-buff and Hyran's. (dodges thrown bottles)

    Let me explain...

    To me the problem with our concentration slots is not that we have to make meaningful decisions about what we need the most, but rather that our spells are not designed in a such a way to take into account our lack of slots.

    Take Tomb's for example, it seems like a balanced spell in itself, but take into account the fact that we have to turn off another spell to put it on and suddenly it does not look so good. Let's say I don't have much room for offensive buffs in my line up so have to take off Riana's to put it on....

    Tomb's spell description in effect should then read:
    - 12% chance to proc 280-330 damage
    - Decreases groups DPS by 31

    I feel that our buffs should be made more powerful on the basis that they should take into account what we are not casting by choosing to cast that spell. Adding more buffs to our class just increases our adaptability, it does not increase our power at all. I can live with the self-buff and hyran's taking a concentration slot, but in doing so, they should be the best buffs of their type by far (shared with troubs of course), remember we had to give X effect in order to use them other classes give up nothing.


    (2) I stand by my suggestion that bards should get significant upgrades to selo's but should have to pay through the nose for them. By charging a bard Xplat for a spell that makes the group run as fast as the comparable horse, people would not complain about bards being faster than them. It would also be much better than a horse because it could be used anywhere and effect the whole group. Personally, I like it if people moved away from the idea that bards should not be faster than horses, where did that idea come from? By the time we hit the mid 50s have we not put in enough work yet to get that reward? Also it is ridiculous that we should not be faster after having spent AAs on it, AAs are worth far more than a few plat for a horse.

    (3) A revamp of KoS AAs is in order. Is there anyone on any server who chose Coin Toss? I suggest adding that ability onto the initial HO starter ability and getting a new AA there. The Sta line also needs a new end ability, or it should be improved and useable on others. The Wis line is terribly thought out, 80% of it is massively underpowered, the other 20% is overpowered. It's not a personal thing, I did not choose those lines, but it strikes me as a veritable orgasm of poor game design.

    (4) I don't want poisons. I don' want stances. I don't want to be a predator or rogue. Our choice of buffs at any one time is a stance. I have offensive and defensive modes by my choice of buffs.

    (5) A fear spell that would not cause adds would be great. Maybe if it cured any dots on the monster and took them out of AE that may be helpful. IMHO most mobs don't agro their friends by fearing into other mobs, they agro by fearing there then being hit by something ticking.


    <edit> Hmm, apparently refering to complaining as a female dog gets censored, but references to orgasms does not.
    Message Edited by Unwise on 01-04-2007 03:33 PM
  6. ARCHIVED-Kurizokun Guest

    Perhaps the best recommendation with Oration is to make it be a health transfer from mob to target. Rob from the mob through damage and give to targetted group/raid friend. Honestly a Dirge healing is about as carebear as a troubador. It just doesn't fit.

    Just because it's handy doesn't mean it belongs... atleast in its current state.
    Message Edited by Kurizokun on 01-04-2007 05:14 PM
  7. ARCHIVED-Unwise Guest

    I would have to disagree on that one Kurizobo. I see OoS in keeping with a class that does songs of loss, mourning, rage and death. I think a song of sacrifice fits in well with that. It is also in keeping with out other lifetap spells and gives us a more sinister overtone as people associate such life-transfer spells with Necros and Defilers.
  8. ARCHIVED-Vincenzo Guest

    I think the design idea behind giving the bard such a rough time with regard to conc slots was that

    a) if we were able to run all our buffs we would be too powerful
    b) juggling (not twisting) songs is part of what a bard is about.

    I think that if indeed (as I suspect) this was the design assumption, the devs need to revisit these axioms and give us buffs that are worth juggling! That in my opinion would be a better fix than just relaxing the conc slot requirements on our group buffs + hyrans.
  9. ARCHIVED-Mildavyn Guest

    Sounds to me that what you really want is to be a Troubador. Iron really, i look at both classes and see a pile of differences that favour the dirges. You lookat both and see things that Troubadors get that you want. I guess the grass will always be greener.
    Seems to me that there have been a number of posts on these forums asking for buffs and/or skill that the troubadors already have... someone wanted stiffle, someone wants AE DoT/Debuff, someone wants mana taps... people, go roll a troubador, and stop trying to take our toys.
    While im in a bad mood, i want to complain about the new EoF raid gear as well. The dirge bonus for getting 3 items is a 25 (twenty five) second reduction on CoB... that is INSANE! That cuts the re-use by almost half, and for all i know (i dont) you could get an AA that reduces it further. Want to know what the Troubadors get? Well looking at the Dirge gear, you would think a 45 seconds reduction on PotM (half the recast) or even 25 seconds. Nope. Some buff for Jester's Cap perhaps? Neg. We get 60 damage added to our stealth attack. But wait... it takes us 2 seconds to even GET into stealth (ignoring bump, most raid troubs dont have it) and then +60 damage on a skill that does around 1000 already, 6% increase. Compared to almost a double in damage from CoB. Is this a joke!? Add to that the lack of INT (84 on the entire set!?) and the +10 to dove song for our 7 peice reward (Its a nice spell, but its not THAT nice) and i dont plan on using this stuff, im going for the PvP reward gear.
  10. ARCHIVED-Nainitsuj Guest

    Not true. With master level Alin's, our wizard can still rip from our tank under the right circumstances.
    Frigid Rift, PotM, forge of Ro, cap, fusion and ice nova. That seals it for the wizard.
    Message Edited by Nainitsuj on 01-10-2007 02:01 PM
  11. ARCHIVED-Kurizokun Guest

    Scream of Death's restriction is too restrictive. It needs to be adjusted just like Garsin's was, were you playing a dirge back then? Oh wait you don't play a dirge.
    I have no idea how you gathered my power tapping the mob had anything to do with being a troubador. It has NOTHING to do with troubadors. I hope you can understand how clearly I am stating this to you. A power tap from the mob would be much more beneficial than a heal. Healing should be a troubador ability in my opinion. Furthermore, why would I sacrifice my own health for someone else? Stealing from the mob for someone else is what a dirge is supposed to do, that is what I'm trying to say.
    Not once did I state anywhere encounters or single target.
    What are you doing in these forums? You play a Troubador not a Dirge. You've yet to make suggestions, you keep arguing with people about theirs. Do you think that arguing with the REAL dirge players here is going to help us out? I suggest you move on to your forums and start your own thread there about what you would like in your revamp.
    Take your bad mood and go somewhere else flower boy. Obvious you're jealous what the dirges get and you want to prevent them from getting anything else, what other reason would you have to come here and talk smack on a request thread by a non dev?
  12. ARCHIVED-Antryg Mistrose Guest

    A concentration free self buff? Definetly a pipe-dream Classes that have no concentration stances have drawbacks between them (except for mage's tiny one). So the only way we'd get this is if we got 2 - an offensive one that has defensive drawbacks, and vice versa - and our group buffs do that already)

    I can't think of any good reason why power & hate (especially in its nerfed no STR format) buffs require conc slots. Removing those 2 would allow a bit more flexibility in what to cast

    Instruments? unless they go in a charm slot and are downright awesome, no thanks. I can't see beating someone over the head with a lute as being very RP, and a guitar with a 1.6sec delay and a damage rating? please! Harvesting implements and hex dolls seem more starightforward, so that wouldbe a better model I think. (We seem to have some of the animations already).
  13. ARCHIVED-Kurizokun Guest

    I would agree that does sound rediculous. Beating Mayong Mistmoore's head open with a guitar....
  14. ARCHIVED-Teilan Guest

    I love the idea of getting instraments.
    Love the idea of Death bearer line have no concentration - I would llike to use this on raids.
    Kurizokun wrote:
    3. Change Oration of Sacrifice to power tap the mob and give power to a targetted group/raid friend
    this one I dont agree with. I really like the spell as is and have saved the MT more than once in a raid or caught a mage before they take a dirt nap. I really like to mix this song with CoB. Kick off Cob then cast oration since you are stifled and can only auto attack its perfect. then after the 17 secs hit your 2 CA that give you back heath and your golden.
  15. ARCHIVED-Mildavyn Guest

  16. ARCHIVED-Kurizokun Guest

  17. ARCHIVED-peepshow Guest

    After reading all theese posts again, I am sorry that I'm the one to do this..

    I think you are all getting your hopes up way to high..
    Maybe he said they would look at the Bard class, but what most of you are talking about is just dreaming afaik..

    Lets see what they can do or I bet most of us will be VERY dissapointed when they actually do it..

    So lets all just sit back and wait..

    On a side note..

    How often do the devs read and reply to what have been posted in theese forums ??

    I dont think they will even take all of this into consideration before doing anything..
  18. ARCHIVED-Whysprr_Wyrd Guest

    If we restricted posting on these boards to those who play dirges, we'd probably miss some good insights. That would be silly.
    Whysp
  19. ARCHIVED-TheSummoned Guest

    A good way to get rid of the self buff conc is to make it a temporary self buff, like CoB is a temporary group buff. A 1 minute recast 20 second duration would be good imo :) And would add a little inni tinny bit of tactical play to the bard.
  20. ARCHIVED-Vincenzo Guest

    I just hope that something is done. It's up to the designers to decide what would and would not be balanced. As it stands the Dirge class needs *something* to make it more compelling to play imo.

    One thing I'm noticing is that the fun component of the class increases exponentially as the mob difficulty increases.
    --

    Unwise, you mention that people are complaining about bards running faster than horses.....

    *sigh* (not to you, to the complainers)

    Isn't that what bards are about? Aren't we the ones who keep the Norathian Express working?

    Furthermore, we aren't selfish with it. It's a group buff!

    Imo the EQ2 lore needs a rewrite in the game's current state. Druids are now the fastest thing on 2 legs.

    Oh, just a minute. I get it now. All the bard NPC's in the game asking me to do delivery quests are put there because they need a DR00D. YES THAT'S IT.