So, my monk is now almost lvl 29 and I see a huge difference

Discussion in 'Monk' started by ARCHIVED-GangsterFist, Nov 29, 2004.

  1. ARCHIVED-GangsterFist Guest


    U soloed a ++ red? i don't beleive that. Maybe you were totally buffed out, and at the end of the fight everyone wiped but you and you were able to finish the mob off. You may have picked up the slack but that was with all your buffs and the debuffs that had been casted on the mob. I wouldn't really consider that soloing at all.
    Message Edited by GangsterFist on 12-10-2004 01:58 PM
  2. ARCHIVED-EgilRonin Guest

    As a 26 Defiler, I notice a HUUUGGGGGEEEEE difference if I have to heal a Bruiser class compared to a Warrior class. The Bruiser is sooooo much easier to heal than the Warriors it isn't even funny. Mobs that I need to slow then spam ward ward insta ward ward insta ward ward insta oop turn into slow ward pick nose pick nose some more ward pick nose ward ward dead. You guys can tank fine, and in fact, if you only have a Shaman as your healer, make sure you tank, as it is SOOOOOOO incredibly easier. If your group is beeing dumb, get them to run a couple tests. Guaranteed the Shaman will want a Monk tank for the rest of the game afterwards.
  3. ARCHIVED-GangsterFist Guest


    Yes the shaman + brawler combo is good. However, at higher levels when wards get chewed through by mobs its not as effective. However, wards have saved my butt many times as a monk, I won't deny that. My berserker guildmate is the same level I am and his deflection is pretty much as good as mine. He hardly gets hit, and if I use my martial buff on him for deflection its even that much better. So, really the same thing can be accomplished with out a monk. Guardians get a series of skills along the ally line which also raise deflection bonuses. So, you can do this exact same thing with many different classes. The problem is most of the plate tanks you group probably don't know about these things, and therefore never try them out. Next time you get a group going with a zerker and a monk, have the monk use the deflection buffs on the zerker and let them main tank. You will get better resuls with avoidance + heavy plate mitigation + ward + slow on the mob + zerker haste.
  4. ARCHIVED-Oidan Guest

    I keep seeing people say it doesn't look cool to have a shield. First i will agree that looking cool is well, looking cool but that is a lil off topic when you are talking asthetics. Tanking is the topic. Do ya tank better with a beefy shield? Yes you do. It adds ac = mitigation and also give you a bonus to blocking = avoidance. Yeah you do lose dps but that is the tradeoff. If you dont feel comfortable tanking or just plain dont want to tank for whatever reason then grab a plate class, throw up your offensive buffs and dual wield.

    I 80% of the time grp with folks in my guild. If I grp with a plate class, I make them the MA. Why? because if I tank, we lose dps. Less dps over time means loss of exp over time.

    I can only speak up to my level which is only 26 but so far I have not had a prob with tanking. And yes I agree a shaman type is the choice healer for the brawler class.
  5. ARCHIVED-Coraz2 Guest

    I meant I was off on the side tanking it and happened to kill it while rest of group was killing the other one. I assumed you would take 'solo' and 'rest of group' and assume that's what I was doing. No I didn't happen to find a magically at 2/5 hp red^^ to solo.
    Message Edited by Coraz2 on 12-11-2004 09:33 PM
  6. ARCHIVED-Versaint_ Guest

    This was taken from an interview with Moorgard at www.brawlers-pit.com.

    Z: When we reach 20, our deflection skill raises by 40 points, but the cap value doesn't raise with it. For most monks this results in deflection skill being listed at 139/100 and no skill gain can be achieved until level 28 when the cap reaches 140. Is this intentional? Are we getting the effect of those extra skill points while they are higher than the cap?

    M: It's a bug that ends up benefiting monks and bruisers. We'll be fixing it, but for now it provides additional deflection from levels 20 to 28. Enjoy it!
  7. ARCHIVED-RioRio Guest

    Just jumping in here at the end.

    I am in the school of thought that all fighters should be able to tank as equally well as possible. I mean it is just a video game so it will not be perfect. Right now there is too much of a gap between the fighters as far as who is the better MT. The gap needs to be closed as much as possible. I have followed this game for 2 years. The archetype concept means that any group should want any fighter to be MT. I hope SOE fixes the problems soon. The archetype system is the biggest reason why I wanted to play this game. I don't want to find out at level 40 that I picked the wrong class and is now stuck as "2nd tank". I will be upset if SOE can not make this system work.

    Just a friendly crusader.
  8. ARCHIVED-Gaige Guest

    I'm tanking just fine as a lvl 40 monk.
  9. ARCHIVED-GangsterFist Guest

    Well, monks can tank. The purpose of this thread was about making them equal tanks. I tank all the time in 3 and 4 man groups in RE, RV, feerott, zek, ect. However, its just xp grinding groups. If we do anything challenging with mobs that hit really hard and really fast, the better tank to have in the plate tank. The ability to hold aggro, take damage (or avoid it for monks/bruisers), and do it well is not equal among any of the fighter archetypes. There is a balancing issue, and that is what I am addressing.

    Also, 1 level difference does not make a huge difference as to you were suggesting. @ lvl 37 I should tank slightly less par to a lvl 38 zerker, but the difference is way more there. I have proven this fact with pulling multiple social groups. The zerker can tank, and mititage and avoid damage to make a better over all tank. Consider it a stress test, or something to a bit of extreme. This situation happens though. Lets say you are in a fairly busy dungeon with many groups running around the place. One group next to you evacs (which happens quite often), and then their social they were fighting is pretty much instantly full health and full power and aggro towards you. You, now have about 15+ mobs attacking you. A zerker out performs a monk everytime (at equal lvl with the same lvl of equipment) in this situation. Which means a zerker/guardian can tank more than a monk. They can take on more mobs at once and do it effectively.

    I have been crafting last couple of days trying to get myself to make teir 4 jewelry, so im stil lvl 38, and I have not had any major troubles tanking in a xp grind group. However, there is no way its equal like its suppose to be, and how SOE stated it should be.

    I get clerics from time to time in pick up groups who refuse to join me cuz im a monk. However, I have had clerics heal me as the only healer and im the only tank, and it worked fine. The problem here is not the monk, its the cleric. The cleric uses the plate tank as a crutch and does not know how to play his/her class well enough to change tactics for an avoidance tank.

    I have been patient through beta ( i played a monk in beta - not a buffed out one, one from ground up) and throughout the live version. SOE has been coding plate tanks for almost 6 years now, the avoidance tank is something new to them. It will probably take some time to even it out. So, expect that as a monk you will not tank at the same level as a plate tank, but don't get too discouraged because you can tank. There will be naysayers and elitists, but thats with anything, and any game. If a priest turns you down for a pick up group because you are not a plate tank, you are probably better off with out them. They are probably a bad healer and cannot handle healing a monk (which with the right tactics is NOT hard, nor is it way different than a plate tank).

    I think I have said all that I wanted too, plus some. I think I am done with this thread. Just remember, there are tons and tons of tactics out there. Try getting a guardian to buff you out and let you main tank. In some situations its better that way. Try being back up tank to a zerker, martial disciple the zerker and let him tank, it works wonders (and I block a lot of hits for other tanks when doing this). Have the cleric debuff the mob with their reactive heals. If its debuffed it won't hit you as hard so you won't spike quite as much. Hopefully here in the near future the avoidance tank will be something of equal par to a plate tank in holding aggro, tanking, handling large crowds of mobs, ect. Just remember plate tanks have had 6 years of coding and developement behind them from EQ1, avoidance tanks are a new concept. It also depends on your group tactics. I just get three wizzards in my group now and AE nuke everything. Stuff dies so fast you dont even really need a healer in the group. Or 3 wiz + 1 chanter chain AE stunning the mobs. While the wiz nuke and you dps. I don't even bother tanking when I don't have to, I just do tons and tons of DPS and kill whole groups of mobs in matters of seconds.
  10. ARCHIVED-Ashkie Guest

    So wait, first our deflection was broken and not doing enough, and now its doing too much? What the heck? I'd really had to see how it is normally....
  11. ARCHIVED-Grazel Guest

    Boldface added above for emphasis.

    Yes, monks make great tanks if the group is smart.
    Unfortunately, pickup groups rarely contain that many smart people.
    This makes tanking in pickup groups difficult. Average, or even average+, players simply aren't skilled enough to make a monk tank work. It takes GOOD players.
    No offense Gage, but, as a high-play-time, higher-level player, the people you group with are usually smart enough to handle that strat. That totally changes when you move down to the lower-play-time lower-level players.
    Take a normal pickup group I encounter and throw a guardian in. Correct strat, as you said said, is to have the monk tank and the guardian intervene. Now, try to get a random pickup group to do that. Ha. Most people insist the non-monk tank even if he's three levels lower. BTW that happens several times a week -- I'm not exagerating. Most wont even TRY even if I explain it. Urrgh get hit! ElfiyWelfy heal! That's about as complicated as they get. Its very frustrating.
    So my main problem with monk tanking is that its not practical in an average group. Depending on groupies to be average would be fine ... needing them to be brainiacs, just to get the tanking job done ... that's not right. Other tank classes do not require a specialized strats or specific group line-ups to do their job, it seems unfair that the monk class does.
    Maybe I just suffer from this more than others. My playtime is irregular and I depend 99% on pickup groups.
  12. ARCHIVED-mja1983ca Guest

    im only a level 21 monk so i cant say anyhting about higher levels but for me now i ahve had no real trouble getting a group and havent had any trouble tanking, people seem to be doing ALLOT of complaning on the thread but as far as i can see its not sony thats at fault here but the players, monk is a perfectly viable tank class theres nothing wrong with but it is very different from every other game in how it tanks i think if we give people more time to get used to it things will average out, the general play on eq2 is stil extremly biased by eq1 people are making assumptions and so there are many cleric and warrior based people as they think somehow these are the best classes, its not sonys fault if people are to stupid to use what they give us there not magicans.

    another thing for tanking is the moronic idea that your group has to be fighting mobs of a way higher level then you and this is also ludicrious you could just as easily kill tons of lower mobs maybe you can get just as good experience the hgihest mob isnt always best, so what if we cant tank red mobs (whcih i dont mean to be true but people think it) we are certinly then able to tank lower mobs the best as we can easily avoid them and out damage any other fighter

    dont whine about what you cant do just do what you can do

    another thing is in response to the randomness of avoidance tanking thing is 1 way i have found to use feign is that if i do hit red and am in danger of death i fegin to let the healer get there heal off and the pop back up before anyone dies majorly and am tanking again, all the mobs run right back to me, like moorgrad said fegin is meant to save your life

    anyways any who choose to be a monk because they wanted to be a monk is a moron, you choose to be a monk because you are a monk, be the monk dont play the monk, this is a role playing game, NOT a fit the niche game, always remember fighters are fighters not tanks thats a load of crap players invented

    in conclusion the biggest peoblem i see with monks is not monks but moronic people, i feel also allot of the monks cnat tank flack comes from monks, i have seen on 2 ocations monks shouting in ooc for a tank to join their group these people should be burned at the stake~~
  13. ARCHIVED-Grazel Guest

    Yes, at level 21 you've had the benefit of the abnormally huge deflection increase monks gets at level 20. That bonus slowly disappears over the next several levels.

    BTW that huge bonus is going away in the patch, so you may want to re-evaluate.
  14. ARCHIVED-GangsterFist Guest


    See thats the thing, plate tanks don't need someone to intervine, they can tank better. That is my whole point, that monks do not tank equally. All I wanted from this thread is equality, not uberness.
  15. ARCHIVED-Gaige Guest

    I made that statement over 11 lvls ago, and it no longer applies. I tank just fine.
  16. ARCHIVED-GangsterFist Guest


    Ummmm, thats the whole point, you had to make a tank intervine on you to tank. Now at the level 40+ game its different. Now that I am lvl 42 I can tank TONS better than when I was level 29 to 38. There are still balancing issues. Just because you do not need that now, still does not mean that tanks from previous 11 levels are balanced. They need to balance it out a bit more so that everyone can group effeciently and level. Luckily for you and me Gage, is that we group with our guild mates, so we are always in good groups. For every solo person out there, thats just not always an option. Yeah at level 42 I have about 1600ish AC unbuffed and like 3k HP unbuffed. Add avoidance factors and good group tactics, yeah monks work great, even preferable over others at times.

    With out that, there is a balance issue, and IMO it needs to be looked into for the less fortunate people who are not guilded and don't have the benefit of grouping with the same people over and over.
  17. ARCHIVED-Gaige Guest

    Nah, my guild is avg lvl 18, I never group with them actually. I had a static from 29 to 40, but not all the other lvls, I play mostly pickup ;)
  18. ARCHIVED-Wanand Guest

    I said this in one of my post a about a week ago and i was flamed everyone said i had no skill etc etc.

    I pointed out that our avoidence skills were not working correctly and how from playing my guardian and comparing it to my monk lvl by lvl my guardian was by far the better tank it was not even a contest. Fact of the matter is the monk at the moment is a non needed class.

    If you look at it when setting up a group for xp lets say 25+
    Guardian/Zerker/pal/sk (last two are last choice)
    Shaman
    Cleric/druid
    Scout type any will do purley for escape and dps
    Wiz/warlock
    Enchanter/bard

    That is a pretty solid group setup good combo of healing and dps, and CC and or Mana regan lower down time

    Now where monks problem is we are considered dps for most xp groups at lvl 25 all scouts types get escape that is a must for any xp group really that is your safty from hugh grp wipes.

    I have noticed when i was power lvling my monk after get the game a week later then expected i caught up with all of the higher lvl monk on my server i got fed up with the monks lack or role and abilty, now every now and then i do a /who all monk out of the 5 of us who was smashing thro the lvl's at the start i only ever see 1 still playing, and with my other 3 other charecter i have alrdy caught up some of the monks who was a a few lvls behind us

    The only way to really lvl your monk past 25 is with stactic groups or soloing lot hoping that somone takes sympathy on you
  19. ARCHIVED-GangsterFist Guest


    Well, for one, you could always make the group yourself. When I am with out guildmates (which is rare) I start up my own group and seek out people I need for my group. Personally I like lots of DPS so I seek out to have multiple scouts/wizards. I can only tell you that at 40+ the monk gets a lot better. Its getting to level 40+ is the hard part.

    Wong
    level 42 monk
    Kithicor