Just ran into a situation where the healer in my group insisted we find a tank, cause you know, Zerks are just for damage. Man, I'm ticked, so I figured I post a rant here. Anyway, she insisted Monks tank better than zerkers. Is this at all true? thanks! Ghrim
I don't know what that healer was thinking, but Zerkers are basically number 2 overall for tanks. Monks/Bruisers are part of the Fighter class. They can tank because of their abilities to dodge, but overall a Zerker is a better tank for taking the damage. Heavy Armor > Light Armor of same level. Taking damage in heavy armor > taking damage in light armor. People have the misconception that Berserkers are supposed to be the same as the ones in EQ1. We are not. We are Offensive Warriors. But hey you just need to enlighten some of these people and show them what our class really can do.
aye my tank s would go Guardian , Zerker , Paladin or SK , then Monk , i find i tank just fine as MT in a group , but i like playing Second tank and just doing damage
some ppl are stupid,ive allways been MA in my group for the last 4 levels,its all about using ur skills right,and when u get into a situation like that just ask why he wants another tank when hes allrdy got you,im sure he doesnt have a very good answer ither.
i always thought i'd go monk, because when it comes to higher level stuff thats hits hard, surely it would be better to not get hit at all, than have to make sure you got the equipent to take the hits. This has not proven to be the case. Monks go down very fast if they get hit, so its mostly down to luck on if they get hit or not. As a zerker your built to take the hit. This is far better for tanking IMO.
I'm a lvl 31 monk, and I tank better than the majority of berserkers I see, especially if I have 2 levels on them I blow them away. AC means little to monk tanks, it is their agility and their dodge parry skills which makes them capable of "tanking", which is the wrong word for it really since a monk tank doesn't tank anything, he avoids But, I've seen a few berserkers same level who could tank better then me, so I suspect the majority of berserkers I have come across either don't know what they are doing or just have crappy gear.
It's not just about taking the damage or avoiding it. Aggro management is also another key factor. Zerks have more aggro management skills than you can shake a stick at. I challenge any monk to keep 6 mobs on him all yellow+ and not loose any aggro on ANY of them. I have yet to see a monk tank better than me anyway.. Maybe and this is a big maybe.. on single-encounter^^ mobs that are white or below they can tank better, but on big group pulls yellow+ mobs, good luck, hope you like clicking revive. At 33 I am bumping 3k hitpoints and nearing 2900AC using Havoc. With a shield on, I can take a LOT of punishment. I'll get some exact stats later tonight when I get home if you need em.. P.S. A lot of zerks have VERY bad agility, hence their parries etc are not good. When their agility catches up, the case for a monk tank will be a thing of the past. I hit 109agi buffed a few days ago, and the difference is very noticeable. ALSO PLEASE NOTE I AM NOT SAYING MONKS AREN'T GOOD. I'm just saying they aren't going to be the best tanks for large groups fighting tough stuff.
Well that's logical, level is much more relevant than AC when your comparing apples to oranges. Even though the con changes for everyone there still seems to be a lvl to lvl check for attack / damage ratios etc. I'm a zerker, and if i'm higher level than a guardian in my group i'll generally be the MT, if its just 1 level and his AC is comperable or better then no, but these things are all factors. Picking an equal level monk vs a properly equipped zerker is just plain dumb IMO - unless the zerker in question is just plain dumb (which includes being unable to keep his gear reasonably up to speed - its not that hard).... our armor is our life, a monks situation is more forgiving there. When the chips are down they wont be able to take the same beating, especially from multiple mobs that are capable of getting behind them, and they won't be able to recover aggro as well once the spam heals begin because they are wearing a potato sack.
Well, most even con ^^ single pulls won't hit a monk but maybe once or twice in a battle. Even higher cons won't hit very often, for example lvl 33-35 wild boars in RE will hit me maybe once or twice, sometimes not at all, and even if they do a ward soaks the damage up so there are fights where absolutely no healing is even necessary. Where are you pulling 6 ^^ mobs, I've not seen that yet and would bet no matter who is tanking you are likely to have to hit revive On a group of anything in RE maintaining aggro shouldn't be a problem for any fighter class.
See Diabolicq that's the thing most people don't realize, how good monks are at not getting hit. Even a group pull with mobs behind you, if the monk is smart enough to move and line them up, he will continue to dodge in some fasion 80% of the enemy attacks. Nevertheless, if I am grouped with an even level berserker I would rather him tank and me go offensive stance. Even in these situations, I have pulled aggro off of him without taunting, but when I'm in offensive stance my tanking isn't very good at all so I usually FD and lose the hate. Message Edited by SomeDudeCRO on 12-13-2004 08:21 AM
"Where are you pulling 6 ^^ mobs" Whoa there! I may be a little crazy, but not stupid! I meant 6 mobs in a group, not 6^^!!!!! If ANYONE could tank that I would bow down.
lol monks tanks .../laf Id love to see a monk "tank" a pull of 3 red ^^s or a group x2 or 3 Ive also played with lots of monks and never, not ever have seena monk take agro....maybe you are jsut super uber tanking monk with mondo damage Message Edited by OverlordMLF on 12-13-2004 09:54 AM
I'm a monk. I tank decently well. I prefer to have a berserker tanking. I think that, while on average I require less healing than the zerker, the berserker makes a better tank because they take damage more consistantly and have the extra HP to handle a bad round of hits. A couple of bad hits and I become monkpaste while the berserker is still alive. Monkpaste is bad.
Well Overlord, it's ignorance (lack of knowledge) like yours which make this game kind of frustrating at times. While I would prefer not to tank, at 30+ monks tank almost as well, any difference is negligible. If you have a monk who knows how to play his class and a berserker who doesn't, your group will be much better served with having the monk tank. When you can avoid 80-90% of a mobs attacks, then you can laugh. Until then you just look and sound like a ******* to anyone who understands how this game works. Regardless, guardians are the best tanks, so long as they know how to maintain aggro and build hate. Maintaining aggro is still the most important, I have grouped with every fighter class tank who has been able to do that, while some individual PLAYERS may not be so profficient in it. Message Edited by SomeDudeCRO on 12-13-2004 01:06 PM
Ignorance, I think not...Ive watched a few monks play main tank and they fail due to the times you get two or three hits ina row...because they jsut cant take the hits. while I appreciate your vast knowledge of the game at lvl 31...and your childish insults...Ill stick to discussing a game and the ovbious facts..feel free to throw a tantrum. You know if Im fighting yellow no ups or even orange no ups..or heck (1) red no up mob a Wizard could be the tank...If I have a Ward healer and a primary healer. Things also change as lvls progress. There is no question a Monk/brawler could tank at level 30 with good gear for a (2 or 3) no ups group. you dont even need a tank for that. I know the people who play monks in this game relate them to Eq1 monks and think thats what they are going to do end game and are set out to preach that monks make god tanks....which again if not fighting ^^ mobs...yes they can...but so can jsut about any class with good gear. Ask any healer what they want tanking ^^ mobs...cause all it takes is 3 or so hits ina row by challenging mobs to create the monkpaste. Message Edited by OverlordMLF on 12-13-2004 01:36 PM
I'd rank monks last personally, guardians first and SK's second and zerks third. I out-tank any zerk i've grouped with by far as a SK
Well, you obviously aren't worth it You a teenager or something? Monks couldn't tank in EQ1 at all, totally different class. Good pullers since mobs werent linked yes, that's it. Check your EQ1 baggage at the door, because with the archetype/subclass system in place you are just using it as an excuse for your ignorance and closed-mindedness. Message Edited by SomeDudeCRO on 12-13-2004 02:05 PM
