Sleight of Hand <---> ( Yes Another Post )

Yea lol, take off signet of betrayal?! I opt for trading hate with the troub in G4, he never gives me Jcap anyways, they deserve to die!

Swapping with any priest and most bards will normally put me at <10% hate. Combined with our other 2 hate-position lowering abilities(3 if you have a racial ability) it's pretty much impossible for an alert swashy to steal agro, unless the tank is totally worthless.
Of course with a good tank, stealing agro isn't much of an issue anyway..so no, I don't really need SoH for deagro regularly.

I have however found a few raid encounters which like to wipe the tank completely off their agro list. If you're alert, you can stick them right back up near the top the instant they lose agro.

With TSO and the increase in DPS that we can do, I have actualy found this spell to be quite handy. yes yes, I am the original creater of this thread and now I am in a since reinforcing the spell. I do not agree it is class defining and I still say we should have gotten something better but eh, gotta make do with what we have right?.
The way I use the spell, I have 5 Icons of the spell on my Hotbars. 1 that is blank and is used for either pulling agro or when I tank and use it for a rescue. The other 4 are macroed to my MT Healers a few random other healers. I go all out all the time, when I get close to 90% Hate, bammm back down to <10%. With SoH and our few other hate reductions, I hardly EVER pull agro unless its on a 100% Max Burn on trash that we use for Contests to see who can parse the highest. PoTAO anyone, the trash there is great for this. Save all temps and everyone in raid actualy gets a 10 count and ya just blow it up, yeah well I have killed myself several times that way but its fun.
Oh and as far as the Signet of Betrayal goes, its fairly worthless now. Since the change to crits to procs I actualy do not see an increase in DPS like I used to. I have now retired it and my Hate issues has since decreased " some " .

I do not have space on my hotbar for this useless piece of ****.

Now that the almighty Aerilak is gone can we please get this garbage replaced with something useful? I did not roll a Rogue to manage hate. I rolled a Rogue to DPS like a Rogue is supposed to do.

We don't need anything useful because we're pretty much still (and tso definitely amplified this) the most overpowered class in game. Just don't put it on your hotbar and pretend you are too good for a level 80 ability.

Rippt@Unrest wrote:

Codswallop. Buffs from other classes might be overpowered. Some TSO gear might be overpowered. Swashbucklers, as a class, are not. Since most swashy's don't have every item of must-have TSO gear, or raid in a top end guild, this business of being overpowered applies to a minority, at best. Meanwhile, the subject of this thread, Sleight of Hand, is superflous, duplicates, (and conflicts with), the abilities of other classes, provides nothing for our primary, or secondary roles, (DPS/Debuffs), and quite simply does not belong in the swashy stable of abilities. I'd much rather see something that boosts DPS, or debuffs.

Not that it will ever happen, we've been stuck with this pig for far too long.

I think it is funny that people are still all up in arms about this spell.
This spell reinforces a Swashies ability to:
Group with lesser geared tanks and maintain DPS giving agro back when needed.
Pull agro from a caster and then toss it via one of our other deagro spells right onto the tank.
Kill your AFK tank for fun.

No, Sleight of Hand is not the end-all of CAs, but an inteligent swashy can figure out when/how to use it effectively. Every tank I group with regularly knows I use it with my De-agro. It is important to let your tanks know you use this ability and when/how you will use it. Here is why:
When pulling a large group of mobs (linked or not) use your AOEs to pull then SoH (target through the tank so you don't have to switch targets). Let the tank know you are going to do this so they do not taunt/attack before you do. This will allow you to open up with some major DPS, pass agro to the tank on every mob, and then you will be able to DPS your heart out without taking the chance that some mobs have less agro on the tank than others.
It works great for Adds in a not-so-urgent manner as well. If an add gets away from the tank that is not an issue with a swashy around! grab that add, beat on it for a bit, then transfer via SoH.

If you see no value in situational CAs, utility and anything that is not DPS based then you rolled the wrong class. The days of Swashies dominating the parse are likely to be numbered.

Arciahand wrote:

When this little gem was brought out, it was followed up with the plan to remove swashy hate transfer. I believe that was it's intent...in which case it would, at least, be of some regular use. I have no desire to lose an ability with no gain, and as it is, it's superflous. It's too situational. I'm dps, and debuffs. That's what the class needs...not a sub standard replacement for a planned nerfing.

Arciahand wrote:

Well, I'll say again - and again - that if SoH were just a "regular", run-of-the-mill CA, then there really wouldn't be anything to complain about. As has been pointed out, some spells are simply better then others. Some are down right crappy. However, this is supposed to be our class defining spell - not just any ordinary kind of spell. That's how the lvl 80 spells were presented, and that's what everyone expected. And it's what most of the classes got.
SoH is so situational as to be next to worthless - whether one is a smart swashy or not. In single groups, I can usually pull a rogue mob without resorting to SoH. Though, more often, even with an average tank rogue mobs will be rare, and even then the tank will get that rogue mob back before it's a real problem. In raids (where you usually have more then one tank for rescue duty), all that happens is that I die, because I haven't figured out how to stand up to a 4x mob without the heals or buffs or mitigation that a tank has.
As a run-of-the-mill spell, SoH is one of the crappier ones. As a class defining spell, it's an embarassment.

Well now the piece of **** is broken again. Put it on a fighter and boom 100% hate. Supposed to give hate to fighters not to me.
Hate this piece of **** ability.

Best use I found for this ability was during the Doomcoil fight. I was running timers, so if Doom ported to the raid at the wrong time, I just used it to grab aggro and run it back to the tank, away from the rest of the raid. It's good for getting heavy-hitting mobs away from the squishies. Thing is, more often than not it isn't worth it, especially if the tank is doing their job well.

Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:

Yeah cause you usually end up ping ponging the mob between yourself and the tank who is now wasting his snaps.

Just a terrible and almost useless skill,