Silicate Loam Woes

Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:

Sorry, but I find making any correlation between class balance and spell rares to be inappropriate. My main for raiding is a mage so I do sometimes think that balance needs to be tweaked between melee classes and casters but the cost of spell rares is not the way to do it.
I also sell FAR more sage recipes than fighter or scout ones. I first started with selling the scout and figher A3s and levelled up the sage later. It's not even close. Even as my sage levelled and my inventory of priest/mage spells was smaller than what I stocked of fighter/scout ones I just had fewer move for my alchemist or jeweler. As I noted above, I've actually pretty much stopped prestocking fighter and scout A3s for exactly that reason. Fighters and scouts can either spend a large amount of plat for their upgrades or they can harvest many times longer than priests and mages to get the same end result. (See my post just up a bit for my examples.)

AziBam wrote:

I don't disagree that there is an *imbalance*. I just disagree with the whole "fairness" argument so many are throwing out there. Someone laying down a childish DARE to dispute their faulty position is too hard to resist.
Also, your statement that your mystic's harvesting session "generated" 14 to 15 spell upgrades is not accurate. Your harvesting session generated exactly as many spell rares as you harvested. You then participated in the player-driven economy to trade in kind to get the ones you desire in exchange for the ones you don't. Your starting statement saying that if everyone harvested all their own then there is no disadvantage *is* the core of this issue. There is no basis for a "fairness" argument based on this very singular fact.
The rest of your post is well reasoned and again I don't disagree that there is an imbalance. It's just that it's already all been hashed out, and throwing out the emotional and subjective arguments as this thread is doing to try to get this changed *now* because someone is facing the prospect of outfitting their character over the next couple weeks is the wrong way to go about it.

Lol. I missed the dare. I'm half kicking myself for getting sucked into the morass that these types of threads always become.
/meh I do think it is something that should be revised. Fighters and scouts do have a penalty with the way the system currently stands. I stand by my examples as buying and selling is a perfectly valid method to garner money for the additional rares needed for spell/CA upgrades and the current system benefits mages and priests in that regard. It's nothing I'm overly passionate about though so I'll get over it.

/passes the torch to...whomever (preferably Domino just because she is a rock star)


P.S. Does sucking up to the Dev help? Can't hurt can it?

Thunndar316 wrote:

Ok after maybe being alittle harse on the OP in a post i have been mining for 3 days just to make some money,
and to me at this time i think LOAMS are dropping less than 6 months ago or i am having really bad luck.
Mining the same place as always and i have done 2 scouts for adept 3 already so i know what i need it i have got 1 loam in about 20 hours of mining it just seems low.
I am not however complaining about priciing cause it is what it is

Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:

As someone who has r-e-a-l-l-y harvested (#24 in level on the Permafrost server), this isn't true. The ratio is set manually, and sometimes with each server reset (weekly maintanence) the ratios will change. This is verified by many harvesting the same areas and reporting their same drop ratios. For two weeks the ratio of steel clusters have increased, for example, and on the first week it was like a 4 ore to 1 loam ratio. The next week it was reset to 50/50.
Furthermore, in some harvest areas there's a set ratio of rares (SE station in Thundering Steppes and Ferrott are good examples). If more folks are harvesting in the area the rare ratio decreases (why you'll find many there harvesting like at 4am in the morning, including the bots). If you want your high demand rares you will have to harvest at odd hours when the server traffic is low -- that means 4am EST mornings if need be.
Although my character isn't high enough to harvest (and survive it!) T7+ rares, reports on the drop rates of it (and especially Acrylia) across the board tell everyone it's a set ratio -- with RNG thrown in for early Christmas presents -- for that tier as well.
I rarely sell my rares as I'm raising many alts that will need each one, but I will say that the price for the rares are not related to rarity of them. With the boom of steel of late, the price per cluster still is in the same price ratio as before the boom. The high prices are more related to individuals trying to corner the market (especially buying cheaper rares so to resell higher). That's marketing, but in critical items like loam for spells to survive the mobs, it's simply wrong. There's complaints even by harvesters themselves.

• Ohiv wrote:

Nope this "advice" isn't only not helpful, not even true.
When I first started this game in June, and being totally new to EQ2 (without a main to support a character, like so many who claim "It's easy. So stop the whining!" actually have -- that little ace up their sleeve they don't tell folks), I played the first 3 tiers with mainly treasured gear as I couldn't afford MC. When I reached T3 and the mobs getting outrageously more harder to kill, I spent 9 8+hr days harvesting to get Feysteel (why I'm one of the top level harvesters now). Managed to get 9 rares for a sword and board set, when I was nearly ready for Ebon.
A level 32 character without a supporting main can not afford Feysteel for MC gear -- that's on average 9 plat to buy the ore only. Feysteel is expensive because the ore nodes itself are rare (no 50/50 ratio there, the nodes themselves are rare to even harvest).
For tanks you need the Feysteel, the Ebon, the Cobalt and more. It's not an "option", tanks don't have the AGI and high DPS like those in cloth/leather/chain and have to take the beating. Scouts et al can get away with trash gear into level 52, but not warriors and crusaders.
Secondly, you also will need Adept IIIs and Masters and adorns if you like your K/D level to be decent, and survive even the lower tier dungeons even in groups (I've been mentoring now in SH, RE, DFC and other < level 50 areas, and encountered too many groups that aren't in MC get wiped. Those in it -- and using food (SOE you really need to fix this, as too many lower tiered high DPS classes don't even use food into the level 40 even!)) -- not only survive thrive in such an environment and level easily.
Been testing out a T2 character in MC+AdeptIII+adorns, and from what I experienced and to that character, the difference is like night and day. Easy soloing Blackburrow, even the named. In treasured gear and just Adept Is I'd wipe, despite the same class.
So, yes, you need Adept IIIs and even adorns if you want to enjoy EQ2 for it's worth -- not just race to the "end game" content. Players who suggest this always get compliments later from players who were leveling without each about their gaming experience after switching to MC+Adept IIIs+adorns, to further verify the truth in that statement.

Kigneer wrote:

Zehl_Ice-Fire wrote:

See this is where it's wrong. First, tell tanks they can get by with a "mixed set of rare leather and plate" as a tank (bad advice). Secondly, tell folks you really mean "EVERY SINGLE adept3" in your statement. Don't know anyone who seeks Adept IIIs for every tier (maybe 1 or 2 for defensive and offensive or heal spells per tier if they're serious dungeon crawlers or like the harder stuff [like myself] as a challenge). At Tier 7, yes, it's even logical to have ALL Adept IIIs as it's the end of the line in spells.
Tanks don't need leather or chain, it equals deaths, like over 200 for me using treasured chain/plate going through tier2/3 dungeons solo with only Adept Is. Now I'm decked out and mentor as not only a tank a healer -- due to MC, Adept IIIs, adorns and HQ items. Instead of dying 10x or so a night, I may wipe at most 3x on very hard dungeon crawls (or adventuring in T7 areas). It's solely due to gear and spells.
The proof is I went from a K/D of 19 to over 40 in one week of fighting (locked the XP so not getting many new spells, having only leveled 4 levels since), and killed over 4,000 more baddies. My tactics and stances haven't changed, but what has changed is I'm in level 52 MC; using mostly Adept IIIs; adorned everything and using HQ charms.
People know value. They can rise on the cheap and accept more deaths and avoiding the harder stuff; or they can go almost anywhere at anytime (and not wasting their life waiting on some group to form to take on the dungeons).

Zehl_Ice-Fire wrote:

I have to call nonsense on this, no plate tank would or should be caught dead in a half leather set of gear, and every group would reject him because of it.
Tanks NEED the best they can get, they take the damage and keep the agro and they need to have the best in order for the group to do well.
I don't even play tanks but I sure know the difference between a well geared one and a poorly geared one, it means the difference of being able to stand up to mobs or being a mana sponge who bounces agro everywhere because they can't take a hit or do enough DPS and taunt to keep the agro to themselves.

Replying to method propsed in closed thread for players to be able to create silicate from other materials. I don't like any method to put rare creation in the control of the players.

Zehl_Ice-Fire wrote:

It's not just about soloing yellow ^^^ mobs though, way to take an extreme example.
I took my SK into TS at 27 for a level 20 quest (finding the hidden entrance to Varsoon's place). I was wearing a
full set of Blackened Iron and up until recently I had all my Adept III since I had ludicrous amounts of loams from
farming the BI. Unfortunately my AD3s have been replaced with the "upgrades" I get from leveling. Adept I spells
simply don't work reliably against a gang of even-con mobs.

Even against level 27 (no arrow) mobs I died a ridiculous ammount. My feign death never worked, my CAs and
spells were resisted more often than not and even trying to outrun the mobs was difficult. Some of them snare
you and when you have 7 or 8 mobs whacking on you, 2k hp goes away fast.
As to your point about leveling so fast you outlevel the tier, I'd have to disagree there too. How exactly do you
level fast if you can't kill anything in a reasonable fashion?

Bratface wrote:

Actualy that's not true.. You can very succesfully level using just treasred gear, and then when you are 80 you can spend/aquire the parts to make sure your in full MC or better. Realy all of this comes back to OOH woe is me I'm a <insert class> I can't afford <insert item> the pricing is really just out of wack for <insert item>.
There are many threads that will effectivly say the same thing basically I will summarize for you, just go out and earn some plat if you really want <insert item> or aquire the rares yourself and have <insert item> to be made for you. Really it boils down to choices and either you will make a set of choices to get what you want or you won't. Neither of them are bad choices they are just your choices.

WastedChances wrote:

You were expecting to be able to not take a lot of damage against level 27 targets wearing level 12 armor??? *blink*
No, you don't need a full suit of mastercrafted steel, but you would need 20+ armor against level 27 targets. Sheesh.
What are your skills like (ordination, focus, disruption, piercing, crushing, slashing, parry, etc)? Do you ever try casting a debuff first before any of your other skills? Are you looking only at the "mastercrafted" label on the armor without looking at any other armor for it's values and benefits? Are you using achievements to improve your skills? How about jewelry and even simple stuff like food and drink to increase stats?

Rijacki wrote:

I think you assume too much or perhaps missed the point.
I'm wearing Blackened Iron because I'm trying to farm for steel since I can't afford to buy it. Literally none of the
quest rewards I've got have been an upgrade to Blackened Iron. In fact, a good number of the rewards were
leather and cloth or weapons I can't equip.
My skills are maxed and my CAs and spells were all AD3 however as I progressed through the 20s they were replaced
with new tiers which are App I since I've only found one rare loam and again I can't afford 30+ gold for a single
loam.
Yes, I cast debuffs but I'm not talking about a fight I chose to get in, I'm talking about mobs that aggro when I walk
by or call friends for help.
The point of my post was the low level game is different than it used to be. The fact that there aren't tons of people
doing the same zones (which means the mobs would be dead and you can zip by) and therefore not many groups
means a solo player pretty much has to at a minimum have AD3.
That's just my opinion based on my own experiences.

WastedChances wrote:

There IS a big difference between even Adept I and Apprentice I. If you were only using App I, you were better off staying with your previous tier Adept IIIs.
I have several low level characters and I mostly solo.
You don't -need- a minimum of Adept III. Having at least Adept I for many or all of your critical spells/CAs and at least Apprentice IV for the rest is important.

Ohiv wrote:

I'm confused, how exactly are you disagreeing with me?
I make no comment on whether affording them is the problem or not, I honestly don't care.
But I do care that some new person would think (because the are told) that leather is as good for a plate tank as plate gear because it isn't and they would be left to solo because no group would want them in their half leather gear to be tanking for them, and for the record I'd prefer a tank in treasured plate than MC leather tbh. That is my point, nothing about costs or earning money was ever mentioned by me so I'm unsure what you disagree with in my post.
I think loams are just fine, but then again I don't play tanks or scouts, so it really doesn't concern me, but as a class that does group with those classes I can say for a fact that having them better geared is a good thing.
They should just bring back the old Alchemy nodes and put loams on them instead of having them share the ore node, either that or move them to wood nodes where they logically belong.

Kigneer wrote:

My sk test dinged level 30 completing the only solo QH in the game, he does not have a ful MC set.But he does not use Treasured. Just get normal crafted armor, it's way better than most tresured -- only very few of them have been revamped -- you may also buy cheap legendary gear. Just check the broker.
Now if you wiped in dungeon it's probably because your PUG teamates were asleep or playing the fools. People which play without food are usually fools -- even if mself i may run out exeptionnally --
Also if you are discovering the game you may miss the pulling trick that i know (even if i never played a tank), the typical Dev trap is too always put a couple of non linked monsters hidden on the side of a door and add a patroler. Keep that in mind : if you don't see anything dangerous there is probably monster that you may see moving our camera, wait and watch for patrol, pull mob back to a cleared safe zone. Be also aware that a clean body pull may sometimes be a matter of centimeters.
Believe me many low level instances can be 3 manned (some when orange) with people wearing non full MC peoples, just get a healer a damage dealer and a tank.
Note also that many low level people are reroll and the levelling is so fast that they don't really master their new class, moreover they probably have a very relax attitude -- when you raid or do the last t8 instance you get used to die and consider low level instances as "easy". So what is happening is that people probably don't give the best of themselves.
You get the same phenomena when a full fabled toon join a group of newbie in an instancethat he is used to farm with a full fabled group.You usually take a couple of wipes before he/she starts to pay attention .. i m not blaming them .. they usually adjust their game play fast and the most of the time come to give a hand .. but simly they are used to groups doing X dps and they have oe doig X/2.
The same happen for reroller they kow varsoon so well that they are half asleep and don't pay attention.

to briefly address WastedChances' concerns:
I dont remember exactly the stats of blackened iron, but the lvl 20 quested armor from east freeport held up very good for me (currently lvl 38 and have replaced only one piece so far, as inquisitor), so it might help in not dying as much. as for spells, buy adept ones, they are already significantly better than app1, and will last you until you can go ad3 for the important ones

I love these threads.

Just an FYI. I did harvest this weekend in the crater in JW. 2 hours. 4 loams,1 emerald and one incardinate cluster.

zaneluke wrote:

I guess the RNG is to be blamed for it. But its a fact that some materials are significantly higher priced than others, even though they should have the same general demand and availability, which is not the case atm. And given how RNGs work, you may well harvest for weeks without seeing a single rare, even though the chance for that isnt exactly high. Still ive gone from 30 to 38 and only picked up one opal so far, and I could use one or two more myself, but chances are i wont find them before I move to the next tier.
My necro however brought back EIGHT rares from a single harvest run once, in the same zone and level range, this only goes to show how random the RNG really is. if there was some way to reduce the immense spread, that would be awesome and probably help people a fair bit by spreading the wealth more evenly, so to say