Shouldn't it be Time for Bruiser to Shine?

Discussion in 'Fighters' started by TinyRatongaofDoom, May 5, 2021.

  1. TinyRatongaofDoom Beau Wintertail the Ratonga

    Basically, I've always seen people mention how bad Bruiser is, and has been for the past decade and it sucks, because, I am genuinely interested in the class but every time I try it, it's as people say. I feel like it's unfair to have some classes get nerfed so bad that they're borderline unplayable or barely playable.

    I feel like Bruiser, as well as any other badly nerfed class, should get a massive buff in the next expansion because it would be nice to finally be able to enjoy a class that I've been interested in for so long. And yes, I don't mean a buff so massive that they're OP as all hell, but a buff that catches them up with their counterpart. It's a shame to see classes like Bruiser never get played because of a long standing issue.
    Obano likes this.
  2. Obano Well-Known Member

    Bruisers aren't quite as weak as people say they are. Sure it is weaker than Monk but certainly not unplayable. If you are interested in the class I would recommend giving it a shot and not listening to the naysayers. Bruiser got a couple boosts in the last two expansions as well as a mid expansion buff just two months ago. It helped a lot but there is still a lot of work to be done. Bruiser has to work a lot harder than Monk to get a decent parse and doesn't have nearly the defensive power of plate tanks. People just need to approach the class with the right expectations. Bruiser is not really cut out for being an MT or OT.

    The long term vision I see for Bruisers is not to be the Main Tank (MT) but to be a really good 3rd tank. The best place for a Bruiser is not in front of the mob but behind the mob and to pick up extra adds when the OT can't be in two places at once. This is the role I play in my current guild as one of the few raiding Bruisers. I am not the MT and not the OT either. Bruiser = 3rd tank.
  3. Priority Well-Known Member

    Don't even try to lump all plate tanks in together. Zerks are the ones with all the defensive crap. The rest of us work to survive the same as you do
  4. Obano Well-Known Member

    No, not even close. Bruiser is on a whole other level of bad. Bruiser can flop over dead just from physical surge damage while not even tanking anything because I have less mitigation than a cloth wearing mage. Betrayer IV is a good example of that. Meanwhile plate tanks can joke about mitigation not even mattering and I am sitting here using a mitigation potion and saddle.
  5. Jalathan Member

    Obano,

    While that may be true for the zerkers and guardians, I can guarantee you it isn't true of crusaders. Like you, I have horrid mitigation, no damage absorption and no avoidance and since shields are broken it is even worse. and even unlike my crusader otherside, I have exceptionally limited death saves that are only useful if you 1) are precognizant and 2) not stunned for an eon prior to the big hit (ala Worm in EC or Fu'un in Vex)
    Priority likes this.
  6. Priority Well-Known Member

    Pretty much what Jalathan said. You have no idea what you're even talking about. But hey, I suppose my 14k mit is OP.
  7. Obano Well-Known Member

    Where did I say crusaders are OP? You are putting words in my mouth and then saying I am wrong. What I am saying is that Bruisers struggle more than any other tank and that the class is basically extinct because it has been borderline broken for almost a decade. Meanwhile there are still plenty of SKs and Paladins running around. There is a reason for this.

    You realize plate armor has more base mitigation than leather, right? This makes it a heck of a lot easier to survive against physical damage. Even crusaders can fundamentally do their job better than a Bruiser. This is why there are still crusaders around and Bruisers are extinct. Lets be clear here, Bruiser is NOT a Monk, we don't have that kind of avoidance either. Bruiser pretty much has to somehow eat every hit but do so with less mitigation. The only reason I stay alive on most fights is entirely due to the skill of my healers and nothing that Bruisers bring to the table.

    The thing is none of this matters. Bruisers aren't contenders for MT / OT raid position anyway. My main competition is against other T2 dps classes. I am not asking for defensive fixes to Bruiser. I want more DPS. Bruisers aren't meat shields, that is what plate tanks are for.
  8. Priority Well-Known Member

    So, that 10% phys DR from your epic 1.0, rock skin for an on demand 30k mitigation at master, and brawler avoidance means you take more physical damage than a crusader? I looked up a random 120 bruiser. They've got more mit than I do, 3 times the avoidance, 65% more uncontested block. Your character is blocked (surprise), but I imagine those differences are even more drastic.

    Please, continue to let us know how poorly you've got it as a brawler defensively when your avoidance still works and you've got more Dr/mit than either crusader.
  9. Lemilla Active Member

    It might be different in the high end raids, but I don't get to tank those on my alt bruiser. But when I compare the incoming damage on our MT Paladin with that on my bruiser on one of the easy nameds, I'm not seeing any issues on the bruiser side.

    [IMG]
    Top one is incoming damage on the paladin. Bottom one is incoming damage on my bruiser.

    So way higher avoidance, and the times I do get hit it is for less damage which would indicate better mitigation and/or damage reduction.


    Out of curiosity, are there any fights this expansion where such a 3rd tank would actually be beneficial? I know 2 fights where you want 3 actual tanks, one fight where you want 1 actual tank and 3 people able to use a snap agro and 2 fights where one OT could help if the raid dps is a tad low.
  10. Priority Well-Known Member

    The best part of that post above is the brawler taking 6 times less damage from crushing on a fight that took 2 times longer than the parse above it. Tell me again how bruisers lack in avoid or phys mit/Dr?
  11. Obano Well-Known Member

    I don't have any Crusaders to directly compare myself to but the damage I take in Vex Thall is unreal. An example of a three tank fight is "Thall Xundrax Diabo" which has two identical adds called the Va Dyn Shadow Striker. One was tanked by me and the other was tanked by a plate tank. The damage I took compared to the plate wearer is just ridiculous. It was 4 times as much and added up to more than 1 TRILLION damage over the course of 27 minutes. I had to absorb 651 million DPS for 27 minutes of hell. Easy modes are total joke compared to what is in Vex Thal beyond the veil. I don't know how my healers kept me alive but Bruisers have no business tanking anything serious.

    [IMG]

    Parse is based on the kill pull.

    If you crusaders have a higher incoming damage parse I would like to see it. Because that is probably world record for the highest *sustained* incoming damage. And this why nobody plays Bruiser anymore.
  12. Jalathan Member

    Last line of your exact quote.

    And no, there are not many Paladins around because they've been fundamentally broke since TSO... And I can tell you, as one who just retired because I was worthless, a paladin doesn't deserve a raid spot in today's raiding force, unless the raid force is just humoring you or feels sorry for you.
  13. Jalathan Member

    and do not take that as me saying that bruisers are fine, they are not. But just don't assume that all plate tanks have it easy.
    Priority likes this.
  14. Priority Well-Known Member

    There are as many bruisers in top 10 guilds as SKs and there are no pallies. At least that I'm aware of.

    I basically HAVE to have a templar in my group or I get absolutely smoked. It's literally nothing I'm really doing to keep myself alive, my temps are just enough to keep my head above water while the healers bust their butts to not let me drop. Even on trash.
  15. Obano Well-Known Member

    Yeah and what does your incoming damage look like? I see you declined to post any evidence of this. Where is the parse? Where is the beef. Seems you are talking smoke and mirrors. You know all things are relative, right. Sure you are taking a lot of damage I don't doubt that but I bet it ain't anywhere near what my Bruiser's incoming damage is like.

    And I don't disagree that crusaders are kind of squishy but Bruiser is on a whole other level of terribad and shouldn't be tanking anything beyond lightweight adds and easymodes. I will leave you "real tanks" to be the meat shields. If you want to ask the devs for defensive buffs for SK and Pally be my guest. You won't hear me complaining. But this is the Bruiser thread so I don't understand why you are spamming nonsense here.
  16. Priority Well-Known Member

    stupic forums won't share the photo
  17. Priority Well-Known Member


    Mystic/Fury i was at 1.2B incoming, 606M Crush, 566M Slash

    Mystic/Templar I was at 471M incoming; 234M Crush and 136M Slash

    I'm also here because you continuously throw out false information with no idea what you're talking about. You said it yourself, you dont even have a crusader to compare to and I sure havent gotten any messages from you asking about my incoming damage as the only crusader i know in a top 10 guild.
  18. Obano Well-Known Member

    If you want to post a screenshot you have to host it on a different website such as imgur and then link it back here.

    Is your character "BasicAF" or am I thinking of someone else?

    Your first number doesn't seem like it would be a kill pull. Looks like a fail condition.

    Your second number is about a third less damage than I took. Assuming this is the same mob "Thall Xundrax Diabo"adds.

    What you are saying is the only tanks top 10 guilds use are Monks and Zerkers with an odd Guardian or two thrown in. Then yourself and me are the only exceptions to the rule. Well I don't believe it.

    I guess you never heard of TwoFeets from Dread Army? Literally the number 1 guild world wide uses a Paladin. They must be doing something right. Looks like the only one giving false information here is you. Unless Twofeets quit in the last week or so you have been caught in a lie. You are certainly not the "only crusader" in a top ten guild.
  19. Priority Well-Known Member

    As much fun as this is, I think you're misreading what I said. I said there were none to my knowledge. As he didn't join DA until Dec of 2020, 5 months ago, I feel that's a fair assessment. Also, considering he's got a post in this very section about how he can't survive anything past the end of Vex 1 in the "literally number 1 guild WW" lmao. Seems like you're tanking in Vex 2, np.

    Next topic. The Mystic/Fury was a 2 minute pull that we ended because the raid got tired of seeing me fall over after the 5th time. Zero deaths with the Mystic/Templar. It wasn't a fail condition, just a massive amount of incoming physical damage.

    Now, again, I'm interested to know what your healer setup was when you only took 600M, because that's very much survivable with any decent pair of healers
  20. Clintsat Well-Known Member

    This notion of Bruisers as a third tank is interesting. I like to run at least three tanks right now but I just don't see how a Bruiser works that role better than a Zerker because of the difference in group buffs for the DPS.

    That's honestly the biggest frustration I have with leather tanks as a raid leader. Monks are exceptional defensive utility and are strong DPS if you allocate buffs in their direction but they are net offensive buff takers rather than givers in my opinion. Zerkers are net givers...