Shield Bash ? I'm a berserker, i don't use shields.

I use a shield when main tanking or going against a group with a caster in it.

Shield bash is key in taking down groups with casters in it for me. It provides:

1. Extra Ac
2. An attack with a stun component to stop casters
3. The stun can also all you a precious few moment to recast one of your keybuffs while not getting hit or give your healer a couple seconds to get another heal off.

Are there 2hers with AC on them? If not you think there will be? Do you think it would be a good or bad thing if some did? Due to not bleing able to block with them they still would not be as effective, but it could make it more of an option to use when tanking sometimes.

I think dual wield should allow you to block attacks, not as often as something like a tower shield, but still quite effectively.

If you have the mentality that you are a pure damage dealer who will always dual-wield then you have picked the wrong class, sorry. Reroll an assassin. Bersekers are Warriors. They are main tanks; they are meat shields. I use a shield all the time, but you should DEFINATELY use it when main tanking. DPS is NOT your job. If you thik it is, you are wrong, plain and simple. AC, Aggro is your job, period. Berserker gets some cool skills to have better DPS than some other tanks, which is especially cool for solo or if your healer(s) is/are good enough to keep you safe, but your job will always be MEAT SHIELD. There's no "wrong way" to play your char - if you want to dual wield all the time, go for it. I use 1hs/shield all time, even when soloing. Maybe that makes me weird. However, I guarantee you 90% of groups that see a Zerker with a shield or a Zerker with 2h or DW will pick shield every time.

Of course shield is prefered tanking, but considering the tank classes 'do the same job in a different way' you dont think the fact that all tanks are to use shield and are severely punishing themselves and group if they dont kind of goes against this a bit?

I have no real problem with it, i just draw the line at monks having to use shields to main tank.

my shield is almost 350ac,and the caster does notice it alot,if ur not gonna use shields then u should invest in ALOT of AGI gear,if not ur just gonna be a mana sink and the laster on the healer will prefer a guradian,pal or SK,in a descent group set up ur not supposed to do dmg ur supposed 2 take as little dmg as posible,my shield+havoc each pull is over 500ac,this helps alot spcialy when some mobs hit over 600 (RoV).

I'm completely agree with Kerrick!!

i am understanding what you guys are saying but a beserker has always been a damage dealer not a shield in whatever history or mythology or game . thats why this game has both a beserker and a guardian. beserkers have alway been portrayed as either a dual handed or dual weilding weapon with one hell of an armor .
he does incredible damage at a cost to his life , that is a beserker.
i was hoping one thing in this game that you can buy armor that deals damage just haven't found any yet
you wear and its all spiked driping with blood that would be befetting a beserker not a shiny breast plate .that is a a guardians image

just my 2 coppers

lunicus battlerager

Being a Berzerker doesn't mean you're a crazy suicidal lunatic...ALL the time, just means you have the rage in you and when you go berzerk you flip out and kill stuff... I think of my berzerker less like a brain dead barbarian with an attitude and more like Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon 1. Calm, cool and collected until he gets PO'ed, then its all blood and glory

IMHO: Guardian, the warrior that can take a beating and is more concerned with protecting his fellows in battle than in chasing down the enemy like a raging dog.
Zerker, the warrior that can take a beating and is not concerned with anything other than killing the enemy once the rage sets in.

Both are warriors and if you look at the vikings and celts, who had a very similar style of fighting to the traditional berzerkers, you will see that just as many of them preferred shields and longswords or spears to twohanded axes.


Killing an enemy doesn't take a 30lb axe, it can be done just as viciously with a fork. The berserk is in the attitude, not the tools.
Message Edited by Keethe on 12-09-2004 11:25 AM

Not contesting that you do not have to put a shield to the contrary ancient beserker Vikings used to have them and used them well . As the Hrolf’s saga had mentioned describing Odin's warriors in this way:
“His men went to battle without armor and acted like mad dogs or wolves. They bit into their shields and were as strong as bears or bulls. They killed men, but neither fire nor iron harmed them. This madness is called berserker-fury. “
What I am referring to is the tank idea of a shield . we are not shields as we are not the groups protectors that’s a guardians job, we are meant to kill our enemy , actually slicem’ and dicem’ would probably be a better word for it
For those that think we cannot attract agro , they are mistaken I have agroed away from our main tank several times just by the spells I use , even though I was a lower level .
And for those that think we are not pure damage characters might want to choose another class, damage is what we do and we are darn good at it. And whats better damage than a dual edge axe that can chop a guys head off in one slice. Turn around and continue fighting with sever wounds. That’s a beserker!
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Being a Berzerker doesn't mean you're a crazy suicidal lunatic...ALL the time, just means you have the rage in you and when you go berzerk you flip out and kill stuff... I think of my berzerker less like a brain dead barbarian with an attitude and more like Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon 1. Calm, cool and collected until he gets PO'ed, then its all blood and glory
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Actually just when you rage you become frenzied to the point you can not distinguish friend from foe when you get that rage. You become a lunatic but yes only when you rage.
word "berserk" comes from Berserkers the name (referring to bear shirts) of the most feared Vikings. Berserkers worked themselves into frenzy before battle and fought fiercely, heedless of pain.
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IMHO: Guardian, the warrior that can take a beating and is more concerned with protecting his fellows in battle than in chasing down the enemy like a raging dog.
Zerker, the warrior that can take a beating and is not concerned with anything other than killing the enemy once the rage sets in.
Both are warriors and if you look at the vikings and celts, who had a very similar style of fighting to the traditional berzerkers, you will see that just as many of them preferred shields and longswords or spears to twohanded axes.
Killing an enemy doesn't take a 30lb axe, it can be done just as viciously with a fork. The berserk is in the attitude, not the tools.
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Yes the attitude you can use a fork a dagger or even a blunt hammer, (dang that’s my other favorite weapon) it’s the way you leave your enemy when you are done that’s a beserker.
If the healer you are with does not understand that you will drain his healing power on you when you beserk than you might want to find a healer that does understand your abilities or teach them who you are . don't change your character just because they want a protector.
again we are not protectors we are killers. who said we don't do damage has truly not played a beserker yet...

Thing what kerrick said is true...

besides i would prefer dual wield for a Berserker because you are specialized dishing out damage , 1 additional weapon makes you dish out morer damage, with berserk your def goes down and your attack up, i think the best way to use this advantage is to get some more attacks (dual wield).

but Kerrick is right, for the dual stuff the assassin fits more.....

pity yea, i wish the zerker would be some more strong, but if he would, everyone would play him which would suck thenn too, heh

and thats the reason why i set Guardian before the Zerker, not because he is more strong, which he isnt, no its because hGuardian fits the tanking role better than the zerker.

and in the far highs only the best is good enough...

berserker + shield = just another guardian IMO. Flame on that all you want but I've MT'd for lotsa of high 20's groups and I do fine without a shield, I do however have alot of AGI so I'm seeing tons of parries and misses.

Time (dualwield mowdown a mob) + time (med) < time (1h+shield boring a mob to death)


plus it looks and feal way neater.

I use shields when I am tanking...which is basically always since there are no other tanks around my level. Shields add a massive amount of AC and are more useful than DPS when you are the tank, if you need to be both DPS and tank, than your group layout is wrong. Tank=shield.

I'm only 20, so I don't use a shield yet. But I do plan on getting one.

Still, it seems to me like a dual wield tank would keep aggro better based on a higher number of hits. Which leads me to the question, is it number of hits or amount of damage that matters?

if you need a shield your group layout is wrong. it's all in the eye of the beholder, mate.

^ so not true.

So you are saying that if a tank uses a shield, the group layout is wrong because a tank shouldn't need a shield. Right.....that makes absolutely no sense at all because when you are tanking you are aiming to be the best tank that you can be considering your skills and equipment. Are you relying your tanking skills on the support classes to keep you alive? Are you using 2H or DW to produce more DPS? Why would a group want you if you refuse to add an extra 400AC and instead want to weaken your defense? Newsflash, rogues and brawlers outdamage berserkers even when they are DW/2H, so it makes no sense for a berserker to use these weapons when they are the main tank. Don't tell me my group layout is wrong when I am striving to do the best job I can for MY ROLE AS A TANK.

I understand the use of shield, and I plan on getting one, but im not gonna use it alot, just when fighting casters. Why be a berserker if your gonna cut your DPS down and always use a shield? Berserkers are DPS tanks, meaning we do dmg when we tank If your gonna completely make your character into a tank that takes dmg and does just as much dmg as a Guardian, then why dont you make a Guardian? In DnD my Frenzied Berserker, would take an AC hit for going raged/frenzied and take some dmg, but in return he would do MONSTER DMG!!!! tho he was still hit easy. In EQ1 Bersekers would frenzy for a attack that could triple attack and do decent dmg but take an AC hit. The thing is tho they all took ac/hp hits they in return they did good dmg. Thats what a Berserker is, he doesnt care about his protection or his grps, he wants to kill, mame, and destroy his target, not just sit there and take hits while others kill it. He wants kill it himself then whipe the blood on his chest The thing is people see tanks as just dmg takers thats it, the reason SoE put in 2 different tanks in is for different flavors, not to just have one tank try to be the other.

The only time I will consider using a shield is probably going to be on raid mobs. The more damage you do the faster it dies.

I understand what you are saying Tyfiz, but what I am saying is you aren't going to be a good tank if you don't use a shield or 2h w/ WS.