I am looking for advice in regards to tanking. What buffs do you start with on yourself? When your running around gathering mobs what are you casting? When you have the mobs set in place is there a rotation you use, specific spells or just taunt/threats? Do you debuff mobs? Finally when tanking named mobs what kind of interrupts do you use? Anything else I need to tank in heroics? Thanks in advance for any advice.
I'm haven't played my SK since ToV.. i'm sure folks will have better advice, but this is fairly basic. Pre combat, I generally would put up Unholy Blessing. Gathering mobs, I tend to run past stuff and use minor AEs (like hamer ground or lance) when I need to hold agro from a healer.. Avoid using Grave Sacrament (or it's prestige upgrade) until you have all the mobs you need/want and in position. When they are set in place, then use Grim Sacrament (or it's upgrade) to solidify agro and rotate AE dmg and any threat spells. I even use AE damage spells when it's a single mob, why not. Some of your threat spells are the debuffs you'll want, so just include them in the rotation I save Souldrend and Hateful Slam for long casting spells that are interruptable.. which are? dunno, try once and see =)
One thing, some tanks disagree with, but I played EQ when Warriors were the ONLY REAL tanks and SKs and Paladins had to solo... until SoL happened and our spells had unintentional agro power where Warriors had only Taunt (which failed most often or worked but due to its mechanics was overridden by another player's actions). DPS needs to also learn how to control their agro and let the tank have a few moments alone with the victims before they start blasting away with their spells. I learned this the hard way grouping for the first time (and a new axe, forget its name but its was a 50/44 weapon, which was unheard of them, gift from a rich friend) and I was doing so much damage the tank couldn't pull it off of me, even if he sat down (making him appear as a lvl 1 player to it). I survived but my friend had to tell me to switch to a lesser weapon to make it easier for the tank to hold agro. I, of course, complied and apologized to the tank in a tell. Got invited back another time by the tank so I was forgiven. But taught me that DPS needs to work with the tank so its a team effort to kill the mob, not be at cross-purposes just because you want the highest damage on the ACT chart.
Try telling a high end raider in your heroic group to swap weapons so he/she doesn't pull agro and you'll be looking for a replacement since they just left. Problem in that case is this: tank damage and direct threat x positive hate mod IS LESS THAN raid dps'er damage and direct threat reduction x negative hate mod. While yes, tanks do need to work on hate mod and defensive stats, they need to put out dps as well to be able to hold threat. There are only so many snap agro abilities.
If they just left my group, I would put them on ignore and never work with them again. If they aren't part of the solution, they are part of the problem. DPS are replaceable. Yes, you lost their high dps, but you can still kill you mob, just take you a bit longer, that's all.
That's fine, but it's a two way street. An undergeared tank will not be able to hold agro from an overgeared dps, period. If that's all the problem is, so be it and wave rude gestures to each other. Just make sure, as the tank, you're doing your best to keep agro. I've seen some fairly poor tanks trying to hold agro with no hate mod, being in no/offensive stance, never using threat abilities, or not gearing for dps output at all.
Would that be the "polyphenominal axe" from the early days of karnors castle during the time when prenerf gem encrusted rings were still dropping? . Had like -33 to all resists
Nah, something from Planes of power or something. Looked like Gimli's axe from LoTR movie, if I recall right.
My biggest issue this last expansion has been Beastlords with their no threat transfers, and not being warned someone was about to throw a 1 billion-parse Deathtouch. I now ask my group members to tell me or make a macro to warn me when they're about to use their clickie so that I can snap the aggro from it when they do. Communication works if you ask nicely.
Disagree. By and large, tank dps helps the group kill the mob faster, it does very little for threat relative to one or more well geared tier one dps classes. No dps tank is going to hold aggro from a sin, bl, wiz or warlock putting out 200mm dps. I play both a pally and monk. The pally has a wealth of threat tools, and for the most part, crap dps. Even on my pally, i slot at least one direct threat item. Aggro is NEVER an issue on my pally. I don't dps well at all on the monk (in fact, i stink dps-wise compared to other monks), but I can still hold aggro just fine with the right gear, the right rotation, and the right targeting tactics. Been in many groups with my scouts and dps spec'd tanks who cant hold aggro worth a darn, but seem content to keep themselves up and paste their parse after the fight. Most of the good tanks I know, (and I know many of them), when placed in a group with solid dps classes, will swap personal dps gear for a mixture of group dps gear and one or two pieces of direct threat. If the group has crap dps, then they pin on personal dps gear, which they should.
Defensive stance always. Before a pull, Unholy Blessing. It heals you when you're damaged for a percentage of your health, making it perfect for when you're running temporarily outside the healer's range to gather mobs. Small stuff. If it's encounter mobs, as long as I hit it first, it usually sticks with me long enough to get where I'm going to position myself before the group starts in. Use something usually like Devouring Mist, Hammer Ground, Pestilence, or Siphon Strike to gain their attention and move to get into position. Death March. Makes group members immune to Root, Stifle, Stun, Fear and Daze effects and, if you put points into it in the bottom line of your shadows tree, will help hold aggro by increasing your base taunt. If the amount of damage your taking is still heavy and outweighing your healer's heal abilities, use Crusader's Faith. It makes your group's damage to the mob heal you for a limited time, and will give your healer a chance to re-coup. Also, read your AA and put points into the CAs that heal you, and throw those into your rotation when you need a quick small pop of health. Always. Cleave Flesh decreases wis, but also deals damage. Siphon Strength decreases their str and int and increases yours. Blasphemy decreases their mitigation vs nox, which is virtually almost all your skills, and is a threat increase. Dreadful Wrath is a snare, and I only don't use it when I'm dealing with mobs like in Uzulu HM where I NEED the mob to move quickly. Since they took the interrupt off of Hateful Slam quite a few years back, you only technically have one interrupt, Blasphemy. Remember where you put it and save it for the mobs that you need to interrupt their casts. Advisable suggestions: Aura of the Crusader-a dispel and temporary immunity to root, stifle, stun, fear, and daze. Shadowknight's Furor- keeps you from being interrupted, a massive parry/riposte (think Tsunami on the Monk), and massive threat and spell damage increase. Zealous Smite- a group dispel. In the Dragon tree, first line, fourth down, Outnumbered. Beautiful ability- increases your attributes by 20% when surrounded by more than 4 mobs. In your Crusader tree, Divine Aura (a temporary damage absorption for damage less than 50% of your health) and Legionnaire's Conviction (a temporary 40% magical damage reduction and a 200% damage reflect). Very useful. Also, while mitigation is excellent (and I'd suggest it to be about 25k for most zones), get your block chance up as well. Position your mobs to be as in front of you as possible, since block only works from the front. Blocking a hit is different than absorbing or taking a hit, and it helps to block as many as possible. A good uncontested block chance would be at least at 50%. I'd also get your hate mod at least to 90%, if not 100. I know that hate is supposed to cap at 100, but I feel that there is a difference with a bard song running my hate at 135% vs 100, (though it may just be placebo effect ). Otherwise, learn the scripting of zones and a basic gist of what other classes can do for you. This can help you figure out how to set up a group well for maximum fun time for you and those who join you. Learn which classes transfer hate and which don't to help counterbalance those who do not. If you're joining pugs, start inspecting those who join you, most particularly your healer and whom you'd assume to be your highest dps in the group. Seeing their gear should give you a hint as to how quickly or slowly you need to tank your group so that you can avoid potential wipes from undergeared players or lack of damage overwhelming the group from very large pulls. If you notice someone with a deathtouch charm, ask them to warn you when they're going to use it so that you can have a snap ready for it. Good luck, and have fun!!! Happy hunting
Not sure where in my posts I implied any form of a 'dps tank'. In fact, the post you quoted clearly implied the LACK of hate mod, threat ability usage, correct stance, and dps (for conversion to threat) were signs of a poor tank.
I'm a poor tank, why I don't tank. But ill emergency offtank, depending on the situation and gear I'm wearing. But I don't do random groups. So I solo or work in guild and no one complains about me being a AoE DPS SK.
Thanks guys very good discussion, it has given me what I needed to know about tanking, have taken the last week and worked on what I should cast when and the discussion here gave me the bit of knowledge about tanking I have been looking for. Here is my armory: http://beta.dragonsarmory.com/character/2598462727210
Just a few comments about tanking on an SK. SK's will never out dps or do enough DPS to hold agro alone against the amount of damage a group puts out these days. Having said that there are a few things SK's can do to generate more agro. Cavalier's Shout in the Crusader line is free agro. I would recommend this. When tanking a mob or multiple mobs, being able to hit them is important. Strikethrough is the stat that is used for mobs when you are facing them. In my all my specs, tank and DPS, I use Vitality to Strength because extra WDB is nice and more damage = more agro. Basic melee stats are important and I would say that 100% AE auto is mandatory. Also remember that SK's benefit from doublecast because they are hybrids so if you can get DC without sacrificing defensive stats, then go for it. How much I mix and match in heroic groups depends on the setup. As the tank in the group my #1 goal is to live and my #2 goal is to hold agro on the mob or mobs. If I cant do #1 then I can adjust and #2 isn't always my fault but I have ways to deal with agro DPS classes. Knowing how to use the SK temps, what temps each healer class gets to fill the gaps, and how to use death prevents will go a long way. Divine Aura, Shadowknight's Furor, Crusader's Faith, Blood Siphon are all temps that I can use to live while killing mobs. I usually pull large groups of mobs with DA since it is a short duration, get them in place, turn them, pop SF and then Grave Sacrement/Deathmarch and go to town. If the mobs are not dead before SF expires, I will through in CF. Rinse and repeat as needed. To reduce time between pulls you can use a brew of readiness to reset your temps. There is no bad way to play an SK but if your are tanking and you die or your group is dying, then you need to adjust.
