SF, what did we learn?

Discussion in 'General TLE Discussion' started by Jandraligeli, Jun 17, 2017.

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  1. Synistra Active Member

    I don't really want to argue about it, it's clear that you like to experience the game differently than me. So instead of speaking in examples I'll just be point blank. As for me, I do not like super slow experience grinds, it is not fun for me to stare at the same mobs for hours on end to gain one level. I do not like being pigeonholed into feeling like I need experience potions to be able to stand the experience I am gaining from killing mobs. I do not think slow experience grinds make the game difficult. For me, raids and heroic dungeons (depending on the fight of course) are difficult in regards to game content. Trying to find a group months after the initial rush of a brand new slow exp server is over is definitely difficult. Using a strawman and saying "So lets just make it 1 kill per level." doesn't even begin to point out the obvious issues slower experience brings.

    Since you're breaking these down into points.. People like to get shiny new things. Just because they are not max level doesn't mean they don't want them or even need them. People may not try to min max at level 32 but they will buy upgrades to get through that tier of content, even if they don't upgrade all their items. This happens even if leveling is fast because the hit points each tier rise. Spells/CAs will get upgraded too. I also never said that I wanted to blow right through many levels in a couple hours. The only time you don't need to do this is if you're getting powerleveled, which is going to happen a lot on a slow exp server by the way. Faster experience doesn't discourage groups, if anything it draws people in and even if they finish leveling their main, they will make alts. I would and have done this in the past and have never had issues with finding groups. The amount of experience given doesn't negate a whole server of people grouping, what it does is thin the herd if it's so slow people either quit or they don't want to slog through it again to level an alt after their main is leveled.

    Anyway, I can't believe I even replied, I probably shouldn't have. I'm not trying to change your mind, I don't really care how you play the game. What I do care about is the health and longevity of the server. I would prefer it last and many people play on it, regardless the aspect of the game they enjoy. I just don't see it lasting if it's Phinny 2.0 for EQ2. There are more things people are concerned with right now than just experience rates, but it does make people uneasy when we don't get an official word on what exactly in their mind "launch values" mean, especially when beta experience for FG was so low. When Phinny opened up people had no idea it would be so bad until they started killing mobs and figured it out. People shouldn't have to globe hop (when travel means are incredibly limited) to go from Isle of Refuge to DLW to Antonica/CL, back to Isle of Refuge, then to DLW again to do quests all the while getting gear from these quests that they can't even wear because it's 3 levels above them (saw something on the beta boards about this when they were up). That does not a fun game make. If it's not fun, people won't stay. That's all I am worried about.
    Livejazz, Prissetta and Xephane like this.
  2. Xephane Active Member

    Say it louder for those in the back... SLOW EXP IS NOT A CHALLENGE. IT'S TEDIUM. There actually is a difference. A challenge is fine, it's fun, it adds meaning to the game... But to take ages to GET to the games challenges, is as stated above, an artificial challenge that is only there for the sole part of cash grabbing. There is nothing nostalgic about grinding forever, nobody enjoys grinding. We all understand that sometimes we have to do it, sometimes we have to do quite a bit of it, but we shouldn't have to spend 80-90% of our game time in groups just trying to catch up to those quests that should be solo-able but are now orange. This kind of experience gain that we had on beta, if it stays, will push casual players away. And I really don't think people realize that. The content is very limited, and the experience gain is worse than ascension levels (Yeah I said it.) The experience is actually so bad, that even when you do orange quests, that took 15-20 minutes to do, half of that is waiting for HP and power regen, the other half is fighting mobs that parry/riposte everything you chuck at them, and you get overall 4-5% experience. At about level 15. The way out? Exp/vit pots.

    Here's the thing, what DBG doesn't understand is that slow experience is what people want, but they don't want butchered experience. What we have going for us is beyond slow, considering the content that is actually available. Making the experience so slow that people either feel forced to buy potions or quit, many will choose quit, and all revenue that COULD have been gained from them is now out the window (see the problem?). Much more revenue is likely to come when people don't feel forced to buy things. The marketplace is supposed to be optional, but just like the mistake that is Kunark Ascending... You either spend forever trying to grind it, or you get it right now by opening your wallet. What kind of system is that? Certainly not one that is supported by most of us. Stop milking the game and just make it fun again, a true fun game generates more revenue than a gated system.

    I was quite excited for this server's release, but reading that very vague FAQ honestly made me angry. I HOPE it isn't what I believe it is going to be, based on what I read. I could be mistaken but lately I've been let down numerous times. I hope I'm not one of the many who will be quitting because of an experience rate that makes me feel like I'm rotting in my chair trying to keep up with it. And in terms of this server the beta EXP rate was the ONLY thing I had a problem with. If it is kept the way it was, it doesn't necessarily mean that they weren't listening to us, but that enough people didn't actually speak up like they were supposed to. From what I could see 90% of the server population were people crying about the beta box and just doing their 150 quests. The other 10% were the real testers, feedbacking everything, talking to DEVs 1-on-1, and doing all they can to provide a positive experience for us all. I bet 85% of the 90% had a problem with the experience rate. And they didn't report it. They did the opposite of testing. They did some quests, didn't like it, whined to their friends, got some help, finished their 150 and left. This kind of stuff is why good changes don't happen. Server statistics would likely say that only 8% of people on the server had a problem with experience rate... Because nobody else said anything so it must be okay. I wish they didn't put in the beta box, so the server would actually have real testers, giving examples of real results/issues.
    Mizgamer62, Snikkety and Prissetta like this.
  3. Xephane Active Member

    Point 1: I love how you just go to the extreme instantly, because yenno if it's not 10,000 kills per level, it's gotta be 1, as if there's no middle ground, or slight boost that is possible. :rolleyes:

    Point 2: Again, slight experience boost does not mean INSTANT GRATIFICATION. As she stated, people still want upgrades, even on live where the experience is so fast, I still had to get upgrades every 5-10 levels on my SK or I had no chance of killing things the same level or higher level than me. It's a part of the game. Stormhold has slow experience rate, and the cap is 90. I either see groups for Wailing Caves, or groups for level 90 content, rarely in between. Yenno why? People don't want to level alts with super slow experience, because again, tedium.

    Point 3: The point is that it shouldn't FEEL like a wall, you are quite delusional if you don't see there's a difference between a nice challenge and a wall. At many points most players will feel like there's a giant wall in front of them when it comes to slow experience. It's why people quit, the feeling that they just can't do it.

    Final Point: See *Point 1* for reference. (In case you missed it, small boost does not = too fast + too easy.)
    Prissetta likes this.
  4. luckynclover New Member

    I am returning specifically for this server. I havnt played eq in about 3 years. Now that I have found out this is just a cash grab scam from yet again dbg who apparently like sony in the past, they can make great games but there greed and mismanagement ruins everything they touch long term. So again I will be hitting the unsub button this morning, because I see that they have not changed since the last time I quit over their greed and missmanagment
  5. Xephane Active Member

    Well we don't know for sure if it is, but based on past attitudes, it's likely safe to assume it's the truth. Whether we enjoy the game or not is not as important as how much money they bring in, even though if more people enjoy the game = more money. I feel like there's some flawed logic in play here. Maybe they do want to do what's best for us but the corporate heads at DBG don't see it that way.
  6. Nuhvohk Active Member

    This. Kinda annoyed that tons of people will be coming to TLE just for the HQs so they kit their non-TLE toons, then they'll just abandon it til the next expac unlocks. People should be coming to TLE for TLE, not for prizes on other servers.
    Xephane likes this.
  7. Meaghan Stormfire Well-Known Member

    The HQ aspect is just to give people something to do to kill time before between content updates and expansions.
    Mizgamer62 likes this.
  8. Givin Active Member

    On Stormhold...

    A blue con mob was .1% exp.

    A yellow con ^^^ dungeon mob was .3% exp.

    The only difficulty here is your inept ability to see why that is wrong and the present system doesn't support the argument you're trying to make. Is there a purple crayon font I can write it in?
    Livejazz, Mizgamer62 and Xephane like this.
  9. Givin Active Member

    Also, what you're describing is EverGrind, not EverQuest because the quest exp has been nerfed into the ground again.

    You know what, just shut up.
  10. Meaghan Stormfire Well-Known Member

    lol, that's what we used to call it back in the day. Or NeverQuest.
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  11. Carynn Well-Known Member

    I hit roughly level 16 and ran out of quests to do at my level, that's how bad the xp rate was on beta without vitality. (And I did /all/ the zones available to me, good and evil.) One should /never/ run out of quests to do. There should be enough content available to smoothly get me from level 1 to level 50 (and beyond) using quests. It doesn't need to be "give me a 50-100% xp rate increase!" but it does need to be 20-25% higher, either the amount per mob killed or amount per quest completed.
    Snikkety, Xephane, Mizgamer62 and 3 others like this.
  12. docsam Member

    This .They need to ensure experience from quest make it an enjoyable ride .
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  13. Meneltel Well-Known Member

    Not us being ridden hard and then put away wet...
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  14. questiondude New Member

    If this is true that a blue con mob was 1% and a ^^^ con yellow heroic is only 3% which sounds off to me, then they need to boost the xp given from the ^^^ yellow heroic mob not just give a flat xp boost across the line... Everquest is evergirnd man where have u been, that's what the games have always been kill a bunch of stuff until you level up getting upgrades and grouping to make it faster and easier...I personally hate questing, they are all the same thing anyway, go here kill ten of these go there get ten of those...I'll say it again leveling too fast makes upgrades and grouping pointless at almost all levels except max level. And don't mock me in place of your lack for a valid argument. Go take a long walk off a short pier with you shut up and purple crayons... Cry babies... I have been playing this franchise forever, never have a seen so much wining for an xp boost. If you want, be one of those lame people that buys xp potions... or ask them to balance the game properly by making harder mobs give more xp not give a flat out xp boost...
  15. Givin Active Member

    Zero point one experience points, vs zero point three experience points. Clean your glasses. Let me help you.

    0.1% for a solo mob vs 0.3% for group level appropriate dungeon encounters, which stays this way through vanilla until Kingdom of Sky where it continues to increase greatly each expansion, further gating the barrier of entry for new players {lol} who might be interested in trying this out and thus, creating a renewing resource of players to replace the ones that leave for whatever reason along the way.

    If that 0.2% "bonus" is what makes your characters super powerful and gives you some uncanny ability to take down challenges that mortal men can only dream of then go ham son. You can be the king of Wailing Caverns for sure.

    What do you think a boost in exp means? What do you think we asked for other than some imaginary "i win" button fetish that makes you harder than Chinese algebra apparently.
    Xephane and Mizgamer62 like this.
  16. Xephane Active Member

    Regardless of what it has been and what it currently is, the point is that that is how the majority of players DON'T want it to be. Levels 1-20... The TRIVIAL content, is nearly impossible to complete solo with everything out-leveling you. It is Everquest, you should NEVER feel like there ISN'T ENOUGH QUESTS.

    Good for you? Do you want a cookie? "I personally hate questing" so therefore WE all should have to suffer because YOU disapprove of a slight change? What a sorry excuse for an argument. Shut up.

    Again I will say it slower... A SLIGHT BOOST DOES NOT MEAN TOO FAST. You are quite an ignorant person to argue with if you continue to spit out the same words that have already been shut down from numerous fronts. Obviously you totally did NOT read my earlier points if you continue to bring this up. A 20% boost to experience from what it CURRENTLY IS is not a huge game changer. It's just enough to make it feel like you are actually accomplishing something with time spent, instead of playing for 2-3 hours straight and not even getting 1 level before level 20.

    This is one of the most childish statements I have read as everyone in this thread besides you have provided logical arguments while you keep spewing statements that make it sound like a small boost would be the end of the world for you. We mock you because no matter how many valid arguments are made by us, you continue to argue with false points. Yet you think you are so right...
  17. Xephane Active Member

    Before you argue that 20% is too big let me point something out... Level 31 player vs. Level 32 mob. Yellow con, average. Kill without vitality yields 10 EXPERIENCE. At level 31.
    20% of 10 = 2.
    Some totally massive difference there... :rolleyes:
    12 experience isn't even 0.1% experience at that level, mob experience didn't scale with level last I checked.
    Nobody here is asking for 400% experience boost. Yet that is what you seem to think everybody here wants.

    We want slow, slow is good. But we don't want TOO SLOW. Do I need to spell it out for you or did you achieve 4th grade reading comprehension yet?
  18. questiondude New Member

    So where did you get this 0.1 for a blue mob and .03 for a ^^^ yellow heroic??? You get that from devs or just pulling it out of your bottom? And I think xp boost means a flat xp boost. If what you claim a solo blue mob is .1 % xp and a ^^^ yellow heroic is only .3% then they should increase the amount of xp gained for the harder mob proportionally.

    And keep the childish insults coming it only goes to show your lack of logic skills and capability to form a valid argument.
  19. Xephane Active Member

    Or he actually watched his experience before/after killing the mob? It also goes down as you level, so that .3% starts to go down to .2% and .1% eventually. And no, they should just increase the experience in general. If anything quests need a boost to experience. A boost of about 25% to quest experience and a 10-15% boost to heroic mobs would be nice. Not too drastic but would make a difference.
  20. Xephane Active Member

    Also, just because somebody disagrees with you doesn't mean they have an invalid argument, or are acting childish. You just see things how you see it... :rolleyes:
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