Sanctuary!

Discussion in 'Templar' started by ARCHIVED-Helmarf, May 2, 2012.

  1. ARCHIVED-Trinral Guest

    Helmarf wrote:
    1) You're changing your story. You said "a change to Santuary bringing more difference betwen templars and inq", and that is what I have specificially asked you to explain. So as it stands, you are yet to provide any kind of justification for your statement.

    I will do the good graces of making another example. Adding a groupAE control effect immunity duration to Fervent Faith would "make a difference". Any type of change makes a difference (stating the obvious...). But the change in this example would not make Templars and Inq's more different. It would actually make them more like each other, because it is blending key features of abilities between the two class types.


    2) I have read the thread. I suggest you do the same. I was specific in stating that allowing sanctuary to be castable while under control effects, is taking a key feature of Fervent Faith, and adding it to Sanctuary. If you have difficulty understanding how this is the case, let me know, and I will take more time to explain it for you.


    3) Yes.


    4) As I have stated on multiple occasions, I have a 92/320 Templar. In addition, this is a public discussion board. If you want to write on a medium where there is no risk of encountering people who have a different opinion, a private diary may better suit your needs.

    I have as much right to express my view, as anyone else, especially for a class I play.
  2. ARCHIVED-Helmarf Guest

    Avirodar@Oasis wrote:
    1 You are just twisting words here stick to the topic and re read it again! And how in the whole world would turning fervant faith in to a group ae immunity spell make a difference? It would be an inquisitor sanctuary spell! This statement just shows what bad things you are up to here!
    2 It would not be the same spell as fervant faith as it would not be a instant cure, as you are an inq you should know the difference and claiming you have a templar! This key feature would not be a copy paste from fervant faith as there is lots of class spells that have an instant cast while under an effect!

    3 No

    4 Hm as you playing the inq but prob having a templar alt then your concerns should be for the templar as this is topic is about sanctuary. Re read and come with helpfull ideas instead of deral it all!
    You still havent answeared this question as i suspected!
  3. ARCHIVED-PeterJohn Guest

    Avirodar, you are way too defensive in your posts.
    Immunity to knockback and knockdowns would be an intesting addition to Sanctuary. I would also include all control effects including charms and mezzes. Avirodar is right on the money here. This would provide a benefit that the group and especially the tanks would enjoy and give templars a niche role here.
    I still think it needs to remain uncastable when stunned/whatever, just figure out when to cast it based on knowledge of the fights. Making it castable while stunned/mezzed/charmed/etc is overpowering IMO, given the fact that it lasts a long time once cast. If you want to make it castable while stunned, the duration would have to be reduced severely, and I don't want that.
  4. ARCHIVED-Trinral Guest

    Helmarf wrote:
    1) I am not twisting words. I am asking you to justify a statement you made. You continue to avoid very direct questioning, making me believe your initial comment was poorly worded, or you have nothing to back it up with.

    2) You clearly missed the point, and made completely unsubstanciated, unsupported comments.

    3) Yup.

    4) Try reading the thread. I have. Read the post immediately above this one to see the result of such ideas.

    I am wondering if there is a language barrier, or if you are choosing to completely ignore direct questions, and specific comments regarding key features of abilities.
  5. ARCHIVED-Trinral Guest

    PeterJohn wrote:
    It would also help address the concerns of Templars who have problems with knockbacks. Between holy shield and the proposed sanctuary, knockbacks should never be a problem.

    And I completely agree with the reasoning you presented, as to why sanctuary should not be made castable while being stunned/stifled/mezzed etc.
  6. ARCHIVED-toblond4myowngd Guest

    Avirodar@Oasis wrote:
    This ^ x 1000
    Having a knockback immunity would be awesome and would allow both clerics the ability to cure durring a knockback just with a little more effor on the Templar's part which I'm perfectly ok with. As PeterJohn said, I'd still like to see all control effects added to it since Sanctuary is suppose to be the be all end all for preventing control effects groupwide and at the moment it really falls short.
  7. ARCHIVED-Helmarf Guest

    Avirodar@Oasis wrote:
    You still twisting words and not understanding the reason behind the post. I have made it clearly understandable and explained it, and made my point with my opinion. But i realy cant help you if you dont cant understand so re read again mr avir. There is no language barrier and im not ignoring your question, its just you simply missunderstanding.

    End of this discussion betwen u and me!
  8. ARCHIVED-Helmarf Guest

    Avirodar@Oasis wrote:
    Sorry i missed your idea here. This would actually be a realy + to Sanctuary.
  9. ARCHIVED-SpineDoc Guest

    Avirodar@Oasis wrote:
    Personally, and in my experience raiding with both classes I think that the anytime castability of fervent faith is much much stronger ability than the prolonged group cast of sanctuary in *most* scenarios. If you have specific knowledge of when to cast sanctuary then it is nice, but there are few fights where I am aware of a specific scenario where I need to pop it, especially in light of the 3 minute recast.
    Just last night we beat Dozekar for the first time, I has healing the OT on the adds. Probably every 3rd or 4th elemental AOE would come with a weird stun (I'm not sure what it was, didn't have time to look at the detrimental) but my fervent faith worked perfectly. If I had my Templar we would have been screwed (also overlooking the fact that I was able to group cure while moving on the joust).
    Sanctuary in theory is great, but in practice there are just not a lot of encounters where it is useful IMO. Now if SOE made a boss have a telegraphing very long recast control effect which would give Templars the 2 seconds hint to start casting sanctuary and allow them to recast it 3 minutes later then I'd love to be able to strategize for that control effect. But that's not the reality, and even if it was I'll be the first to admit I'd rather just instant cast fervent faith then group cure, which as I mentioned that combo is 4x as fast as a single cast of sanctuary.
    But I appreciate what you are saying, no we shouldn't give both clerics carbon copies of fervent faith, rather SOE needs to adjust content to better suit the strong points of sanctuary. Having sanctuary castable while under a control effect wouldn't be overpowering because of the simple fact of the 2 second cast time, which is an eternity in today's raiding game. But by the same token IMO it wouldn't be that much more useful than at present because of said casting time.
  10. ARCHIVED-SpineDoc Guest

    Avirodar@Oasis wrote:
    I appreciate this as constructive suggestions in order to keep sanctuary from becoming a carbon copy of fervent faith. It's actually a decent idea, although I'd still prefer to just cast my group cure while being knocked up/back. But it is kind of a cool idea for Templars, at the very least I could simulate group curing while everyone else is being knocked back/up. It still wouldn't give me any incentive to play my Templar over the Inq, but at least we are brainstorming here with good ideas instead of blind ranting, good stuff.
    I think to elaborate on Avirodars idea I'd make sanctuary give immunity to knockback/up, but I'd make it shorter duration, instant cast, affect the group and a faster recast. This way we can cast it whenever we anticipate a knockback/up and be on the group ready with a group cure or to soak up an aoe blast. This would make it a unique ability which didn't infringe on fervent faith. As for the control effects of sanctuary, meh I can take them or leave them as I've found that having to know exactly when the control effect comes into play has made sanctuary something I rarely cast other than on pulls to make sure the boss can be positioned correctly, but it certainly isn't something I've missed in any way, shape or form as a raiding inquisitor.
  11. ARCHIVED-SpineDoc Guest

    Jesebell@Guk wrote:
    I can fully agree with the "no beneficial spellcast" distaste. This is simply a mechanic that SOE needs to get rid of, it only makes encounters harder because you lose control over what happens. It does not imply a greater level of skill to overcome it.
    I'd say ANY effect which negates sanctuary or fervent faith needs to be gone from the game. The entire point of raiding is having the skill to react quickly and intelligently enough to obstacles which are thrown your way, not to sit there with a control effect or an effect saying you cannot cast a spell and just dumbly looking at your computer screen as everyone dies.
  12. ARCHIVED-Trinral Guest

    SpineDoc wrote:
    Given the vast amount of reuse SOE has made available (I over-capped my mystic with rediculous ease), using the capped reuse speeds may give a more accurate representation of a spells availability. If one person uses base reuse time, and the next person uses capped reuse time, things could get confusing.

    I am a bit of an ACT junkie, so regardless of what healer class I am playing, I endeavour to maximise the effective use of my abilities, especially in relation to AE/detriment timers. Outside of SOE's increasing obsession with no_beneficial/no_hostile lockdowns, I still find Sanctuary to hold value, and not just on the pull. It is one of those "background services" type abilities, where if everything is going right, the rest of the group doesnt notice / care.

    Your idea of reducing the duration of Sanctuary (AAs may need to be revised, too), and in turn, reducing the base reuse timer of sanctuary, is a good one. I habitually co-ordinate holy shield and sanctuary, to maximuse my Templars stability. I find myself doing it out of habit, even when it isn't needed. Your idea would allow me to get even more effective use out of the holy shield + sanctuary combo. SOE should leave it so Sanctuary requries precasting, but lower the base cast speed to 0.5 seconds (0.25 capped).
  13. ARCHIVED-SpineDoc Guest

    Avirodar@Oasis wrote:
    cast speed to .5 would be nice. Reuse needs to be adjusted IMO, even maxing out recast you are talking about 1.5 minutes recast versus 45 seconds on fervent faith. As a trade off reducing sanctuary duration is acceptable IMO. Add the knockback/up immunity and I'm liking that direction.
  14. ARCHIVED-Helmarf Guest

    Well basicly when playing a healer its allways better to have something up more often with fast casting over anything with a long duration/recast.

    Most of spells and AA abillitys are kinda outdated as the game mechanics have changed over the years and this is ofc not only for the templar class. But the reason behind this post is that i belive that sanctuary is one of the templar class most important spell and need a polish.
  15. ARCHIVED-CrypticEnigma Guest

    I see this was moved like all the other class issues to the never used (least by the devs) class forums section.