RoR is harder for casuals/returning players than VoV, some fixes

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Tyrval, Jan 6, 2023.

  1. Dusano Matron of Lore and Innovation

    all truth's and i'm losing hope very quick and i really love this game i had multiple comps and i always returned to this game in many ways but i'm for the first time in years i'm feeling no real emotion to return and no matter how much the storyline is improving and i'm really a huge solo content fan i barely do heroics in almost 10 years playing this game i barely done 100 heroics with my whatever guild at the time.
    Bodiddle likes this.
  2. Tyrval Active Member

    Yeah this is pretty much the why of my original post. It's just not a little difference in knowing how to min-max stats and not doing it. It's not even a 10x difference. It's several hundred times over difference. Like if everyone is going in with refined, experimented mastercrafted with several rare additional crit bonus overcap items, using like bloodbound powerlinks with a class composition that uses some of the strongest abilities, every h1 will just vaporize on their first run through. My initial impression of RoR was, 'this is a lot easier than VoV' and that was entirely incorrect because it was skewed by having much higher baseline stats relative to the content. Then I do a pug with some really, really casual acquaintances and am just stunned by how none of them can really do anything in the zones at all.

    Some of the signature quest rewards should be resolve buffed and made into CBO and that would honestly basically fix it as far as casuals breaking into H1s. Or heck, if itemization is a non-starter, then make a Mage-or-aid type hacky zone buff that boosts anyone below 30k cbo in h1s to 30k cb/cbo, below 900 fervor to 900, and below 1m potency to 1m. I mean, who cares? Anyone that it wouldn't help has a trivial time with the h1 zones anyways.
    Aethos likes this.
  3. Tyrval Active Member

    I think you misunderstood me and you kind of missed the point of the post.

    I'm the OP and my group has server firsted the single group content in both this expansion and VoV, and blows up h2 zone bosses in like 20 seconds, and I personally enjoy doing things with extremely hard stat checks to see about boundary pushing, like solo healing h3 with a shaman or similar things that the harder core players know are difficult. The post was not from a 'I am having problems in h1' perspective, but from watching casual players struggle in h1 that did not have the same kind of struggles in VoV. It isn't that players in RoR need to understand their classes, or have a decent group setup. That has not changed from VoV. What has changed is that the stat decisions regarding resolve scaling, crit bonus and other stats are different so players must understand more of the stat makeups and gearing and that is not in any way intuitive. That is what is different from VoV, and why casual players are struggling in this expansion and were not similarly struggling in VoV.

    It isn't that the content is a stat check. Everyone knows that. It's that the nature of the stat checks have changed, and have a higher baseline that casual players easily crossed in h1 in VoV without trying, and will not do so in RoR. And moreover, they won't know how to do it because telling people to max out their merc/familiar/mount and GM their spells won't help them if they are using higher resolve items that are plain worse than lower resolve items, and falling below combat mit cut offs that cripple them.
  4. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    I think last night really highlighted the issue for me. the group I was in apparently had the perfect composition and we all held our mouths just right and the H1 went nicely. There were some bumps along the way, but they were things we could figure out and change our tactics a bit to succeed. It wasn't a cake-walk, but it was doable and satisfying. That's what a H1 group should feel like.

    H1s shouldn't be failing over and over and over because you are being blinked inside a cliff face (that's still happening BTW). It shouldn't be impossible because your healers are constantly stunned stifled. It shouldn't be impossible because most of your group doesn't have the right red belt rune. An H1 shouldn't be doable one day then impossible the next because one member of the group changed.
    Aethos, Tyrval and Athenia like this.
  5. Arclite Well-Known Member

    My apologies, i actually did not read your post at all. Just read the title and assumed that is where you were headed but regardless the struggle the casual players is having is through resolve checks, inability to find groups to carry them (Thurgadin where I play is pretty much dead in terms of pugs) and the increased increased stat checks. If you look at the expansion as a whole, I think this was very much deliberate to slow people down because the expansion is very very sub-par up until now and lacks any meaningful content. No raid weekly quest loot is also a deliberate omission, the merchant 440 upgrade system is badly implemented as the coins needed will take a lot of time for majority of casual players since they can't finish weeklies.

    I would be hard pressed to see people stay around for too long.
    Tyrval and Priority like this.
  6. Sleppen Active Member

    I'll toss in a comment from a pure soloist. I don't care about the heroic or raid content because I'm never going to do it. Love and kisses to all of you who do, but that's just not what I want to do any more.

    I can say that from my perspective, gear and the like is not a problem with RoR. I had no real problems finishing the sig quest with my warden and a merc. There was one gimmick fight that was too much (the one with the tower at the top of the hill where you go out-of-body and zap things), but it wasn't required for the sig quest so I just skipped it. I've done the tradeskill stuff and the music box quests (which didn't make a lot of sense, to be honest).

    The problem is that it seemed like a boring expansion that didn't have a lot of point. In the course of a few expansions, we've gone from saving creation from Lanys to cleansing the elemental planes to stopping the shissar invasion of Norrath . . . to watching Firiona become a weird looking dragon and apparently a demigod. Even the Mayong Mistmoore stuff felt more epic than that.

    I haven't gone back to run dailies and weeklies in RoR so far, nor have I started running any of my alts through RoR. It just wasn't that interesting. I mean, it wasn't bad, but it was sort of underwhelming for a soloist. I hope that you groupers and raiders have more fun with it. I'll probably mess around with it some more, but I haven't felt the pull so far.

    I took one of my lower level alts to Kunark this week. I was struck by what a huge, creative expansion that was. RoR has only a fraction of the content as Rise of Kunark. Even VoV makes RoR look puny. This is the state of EQ2 in 2023, and it makes me sad.
  7. Taled Well-Known Member

    All due respect, but 'I don't do 90% of the content, but there isn't much content!' isn't much of a sensible statement.

    It isn't *wrong*, mind you, but man is it not very sensible. What do you expect if you aren't going to do a majority of the content?

    There isn't enough content in RoR, I agree, but if you're planning from the beginning to never touch anything but solo stuff, you know from the get-go that there isn't going to be much content to start with.
    Arclite, Dude and Priority like this.
  8. Sleppen Active Member

    You probably should have thought this through a little better before you started throwing shade. (When you start a post by writing "All due respect," it means that you actually have no respect and that you are about to start throwing shade.) So let's think it through. I'm a soloist. I don't play group or raid content in ANY of the expansions. I am telling you that RoR has less content from my perspective and that it was boring. So I'm making an apples-to-apples comparison to the other expansions. I'm not comparing the solo content in RoR to the group or raid content in any of the expansions. I'm comparing the solo content in RoR to the solo content in the other expansions.

    Whether you approve or not, soloing is a valid way to play the game. I don't get a discount for being a soloist. It really doesn't bother me that there is a lot of group and raid content that I will never use. I have more respect for those of you who want to group or raid than you apparently have for those of us who solo. More importantly, I know that each expansion will include a lot of content that doesn't apply to me. I know this when I decide whether to buy the expansion, and I know it when I log into the game.

    So what I'm telling you is that the solo content in RoR was disappointing. You may not care, and that's fine. But with all due respect, you should have more respect.
  9. vlada Active Member

    the taled i know,and mind you ive been guilded with him for 5 years is VERY thoughtful. he is not a person who 'throws shade'.he may say stuff you dont like but he's a straight shooter. he's also correct.youre missing 80% of what content there is.respectfully.
  10. Alyndrys Well-Known Member

    Do not let (the raiders) anyone :) tell you that it is your fault if you do not have fun in the game anymore ! If you can't find any aspect of the game you can enjoy ( as I did with tradeskills, decorating and live events ) that can justify the money you pay then it is time to move on . This is the first year I don't even care to finish the signature line on one character ... and also the first year in a long time when I ordered the Collector's instead of Premium edition ...( I still like to have the new house and recipes :) )
    Bodiddle likes this.
  11. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    Kinda throwing shade at raiders. I don't know how you know whose playstyle is what... And some of the best decorators I know also raid!

    It is true that not every game suits every person. If you are not having fun, this is your PLAYTIME! You should look for something you enjoy more!

    Some of us have been playing for so many years and love Norrath to such a degree that it's really not easy to go find another game. I haven't found a game I like as much yet myself (Valheim is fun if you like to harvest and build tho!)

    There's just something not right about the step from solos to heroics. The experience in H1s has been very uneven. And the loot is not awe-inspiring. There should be the occasional chase item! Even crafters have some valid beefs... the new temp adorn recipes are demonstrably worse than last expansion, as an example.

    So for this expansion, when I am not trying to grind solos to get some more red belt adorns, or beating my head against H1s with my friends in hopes we will be able to raid eventually, I go back and hunt old shinies, or I decorate. YMMV as to what you find entertaining. But I really, really wish there were about a hundred more quests in RoR.
    Tyrval, girney and Twyla like this.
  12. Dusano Matron of Lore and Innovation

    Becky with the good hair
  13. Solid11 Active Member

    What I'm seeing is the company is making a money grab off of maxing out merc/familiar/mount and spells right off the bat to get into H1. I buy the collector's edition just to immediately see I need to get the next best mount right at the starting area. WTF? So the casual player, where DP make a good chunk of their money, have them spend real world money now, hundreds of dollars, on maxing out mounts and such, or train normally and wait almost until next expansion to see any progress. They will burn out before that comes. Mounts/Mercs/Familiars should be a BONUS to help you out as you level them up, not a requirement right off the bat. Just my 2cp.
    Berserkerkitten, Athenia and Twyla like this.
  14. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    Yes, if you are brand new. Those of playing the last expansion hopefully all hoarded the training potions for mercs/familiars/mounts/spells from the Overseers.

    If you are new, go learn about the Overseer Feature and do as many of its missions as you can every day, using your alts and charged missions as you can.

    My main was able to level everything with the potions. My alts have a few potions coming in from ongoing Overseers daily, and otherwise are training the old fashioned way, via time. It's helpful to log in your alts daily (or I guess some people keep spreadsheets... :eek: ) and check that training stuff that's time-based and make sure to start the next round of training to take some of the bite out of the training of All The Things.
  15. Sleppen Active Member

    I still spend a fair amount of time messing with tradeskills, even if they are almost entirely useless for soloists (aside from expert spells, tack, and the first round of merc armor/accos per expansion). I almost never use the temp adorns anyway. I regard them as trash loot from the Overseer quests. They may have more value to those of you who raid and the like. Still, for some reason, I get a kick out of doing stuff like the Isle of Mara/Far Seas quests from time to time. No matter how many times I do it, it still makes me chuckle to see the raid leader running for the portal.

    Otherwise, I am often surprised by how much content I completely overlooked. For example, until a couple weeks ago, I had never noticed the duo zones or the Hate instance in PoP. I was away from the game from time to time after launch, sometimes for a number of years. There were things that got added here and there that I never knew about.

    But RoR just didn't offer much for soloists. At some point, I'll probably fiddle around with it some more. Maybe there's something I missed. I kind of doubt it, though. I found it to be pretty bland, and I found that the storyline lacked coherence. It makes me sad that the funding of the game has gotten to the point that the zones, the content, and the level of creativity are all diminished. I'm sure that the devs are doing the best with what they have.
    Twyla likes this.
  16. Solid11 Active Member

    BTW I do those overseer everyday since release of this expansion and I have only got maybe 1 mount reduction items. They are very rare to get any reduction items. I bought 40 crates a few days ago and got no mount reduction items. I got several spell and familiar ones.
  17. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

    You want to do Legendary charged missions. You can get 10 charges each of 10 different missions. If you are new-come to Overseers, you may have to do the missions you have until you build up more agents so you can run them. I use three alts and between the three of them I get my 10 regular missions and 10 charged missions every single day.
    Aethos, Tyrval, Athenia and 1 other person like this.
  18. Tyrval Active Member

    Agreed with pretty much everything you said, but in fairness there are kind of chase items in h1s in the very rare 425 cbo items that sometimes drop from end bosses. One of the original things I was getting at in my first post is how counterintuitive the 'I need to chase crit bonus overcap' is, because like, someone can have the same or even lower resolve as someone else, but because of using 9 cbo items vs 3, they are hitting like 10k higher cb and their damage is several times higher than the other person. I kind of think the chasing cbo thing is neat but holy moly it is so hard to emphasize this to casual buddies who have a hard time keeping track of gear and stats as is. And telling them, "that has the same resolve as your weekly reward but it's kind of like the hololith of RoR, and you want to use that because you'll get a higher crit bonus."

    I am switching at least a couple pieces of gear based on every group I join now, depending on how much crit bonus the group will give, what links we'll be using, if everyone has the h1 achievement, etc. Just to always be consistently capping crit bonus as high as I can. That's just silly, most players are not going to do that, and I don't think they should in order to be combat effective.
  19. ConcealFate Well-Known Member

    this about sums it up and is very true. Also,there is in fighting about not being able to find groups to grind the heroic content, frustration over resolve checks and a sig line essentially devoid of any rewards. The population overall is a nail in the coffin that needs to be addressed as well. I know, I know, people ask for merges all the time and get dismissed as a pipe dream...but it really needs to be done at this point. Which ones go where is a decision they can make but any actions that involve merges into AB is a huge joke...that server is dead as a doornail (enter AB folks that insist everything is fine) and Skyfire is right behind them. There aren't enough bodies to go around. This needs to be addressed while we still have a chance to hold everything together with the bandaids that will eventually fall off on their own.
    Bodiddle, Aethos, Obano and 1 other person like this.
  20. Aethos Active Member

    AB folk here. Everything is not fine. I dunno why you would think AB players are saying otherwise.

    I would personally like to see another server merged into AB (into AB mostly due to it being a legacy server - the last legacy server - and a tagged server for RPers).

    While there's plenty I've disagreed with Obano on - recently, in fact - I think he's right in his assessment that we're kind of playing with fire here, and the notion of potentially losing a raid force as people kind of 'lose hope' and burnout at this chasm they have to bridge, weighs on me, as we continue to try and get raid-ready.