RoR is harder for casuals/returning players than VoV, some fixes

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Tyrval, Jan 6, 2023.

  1. Taled Well-Known Member

    The VoV buff has come from multiple achievements since VoV launched.
  2. Melkior Well-Known Member

    The first tier of the buff is from running heroics. That hasn't changed, it has always worked that way. You get additional bonuses to the buff for each Raid Tier you successfully defeat.

    I am not sure whether you can bypass the Heroics part of the achievement by going straight to the raid level. I think you can get a basic version of the buff just from raids, but I still think completing the heroics adds to it. I did the heroics first, so I don't have much insight into that route.
    Aethos likes this.
  3. Chath Active Member

    There's one really positive element of combat mit that people rarely bring up - when your character is exactly at combat mitigation, every upgrade they get feels enormously impactful. It allowed you to see real, measurable improvement by just getting incremental upgrades. The main problem with combat mitigation, imo, is that it affected classes very unevenly because abilities were not treated the same under it - fighter/scout prestige abilities would largely ignore it, scout/fighter procs were less affected by it, and so on. A secondary issue was that a lot of potency gains were kind of baked into pay-to-win buffs that could really strongly impact players who were missing them.

    I think the changes to how combat mitigation was used this expansion was an attempt to address those imbalances, but unfortunately has impacted casual players very disproportionately because the way to get the stats necessary to overcome it isn't by getting linear gear upgrades, but by chasing down buffs/adornments and balancing crit bonus overcap vs crit bonus gear. That creates a huge burden of knowledge that's extremely discouraging to more casual players as they get completely wrecked by content but have no clear path to progress. I'd love it if we could get combat mit to return as the hurdle where fights go from nearly impossible to easy while we get a relatively small number of upgrades, but it seems like an extremely complicated problem to solve.
    Aethos likes this.
  4. Smashey Well-Known Member

    Not being able to do H3 without a very specific set of classes is the dumbest shizzle I seen and in EQ2 I have seen a lot.

    A lot of people are fully decked in 430/435/440 gear and can now do 10 named T1/T2 mobs and get a lucky H2 440 drop. And its only mid January.
  5. vlada Active Member

    a lot of people eh? that just isnt true
  6. Priority Well-Known Member

    Every single active raiding member of both FOE raid teams are H3 ready, most are working well into T3 raid resolve. Thats 50+ players in just 1 guild. "Lots" is relative, sure. However, it applies correctly in this situation.
  7. vlada Active Member

    i regret to inform you that what FOE has done does not reflect the entire playerbase. far from it,in fact
    Aethos likes this.
  8. Priority Well-Known Member

    Read the entire comment again. Its personal experience I have. Look at the progression page. There are several guilds clearing content, each with at least 24 players capable of H2 content, if not H3. Now, extrapolate that to the rest of the playerbase that includes individuals that only do group content.

    Simply because you seem incapable of accepting that you may be the outlier doesn't change the fact that "lots" is relative.
    Smashey likes this.
  9. Kaezil New Member

    I'd just like to say, first off... if you're in a raiding guild and you're coming in here to post unhelpful trolling comments, please go away. This thread isn't for you.


    As someone who's returned to the game shortly before RoR, with a group of friends who've returned to the game casually, we've wanted to try to get into running some dungeons. We understood the requirement of 8910 Resolve. It was definitely annoying how few options you had to get gear to be able to run these instances, BUT... we all got there. We helped each other out with sharing quests, collections, etc to get the gear we needed. We finally get everyone to the 8910, we schedule a day to go run a H1 zone.

    And we can't even get the first named down. We took to chat channels to try to get some help in understanding why...why we're not able to kill things?? We start getting some info back about this and that stats, "CB 31k+", etc... and the entire group is just absolutely disheartened. We thought if we got to that threshold, we could do some fun groups again like we used to years ago in this game.

    Instead... everyone just reinstalled Guild Wars 2 and now they're all working on characters there. They've given up on EQ2 at this point. So now I'm here in the forums trying to find a clear and concise path to be able to get us to be able to play together, and it's just not clear and concise. It's complicated and tiresome.

    I don't care what everyone's opinion is. So if you disagree with me, go kick rocks. I don't care. I want a DEV to explain why this needs to be so complicated. The game is almost 20 years old. I get that it doesn't have the same amount of Dev investment that it once did. It's here to collect whatever money it can. But still, this system that's been setup is literally driving people away from the game. And it's sad, because I have investment and attachment to these characters I've played and wanted to play with my friends and have the kind of fun we used to. But instead, I'm gonna go watch a video on GW2 classes I guess..
  10. Priority Well-Known Member

    Good luck with that dev comment.

    LOL at the rest. Telling folks when and where they can respond after admitting you literally gave up after 1 mob.

    End game in EQ2 assumes you have certain things. Either thats RoS ethereal currency for particular stat increases, a lack of leveled mount/familiar/mercenaries and accompanying buffs, proper adornment setups, or lack of character familiarization; who knows.

    Not saying I agree with it, but thats the way it is and you won't get a justification from a dev as a brand new, returning player that throws a tantrum on the forums and threatens to quit.
  11. Kaezil New Member

    It's not a threat or a tantrum, buddy. It's stating outright facts and feedback to a company that one could assume cares about making money. I don't think a Dev would comment or engage either, but if you never say anything, it definitely won't happen. This whole thread has many people echoing the same feelings, but sure.. feel free to sit here and try to devalue other people's concerns with the game, because they're not your own.
  12. Priority Well-Known Member

    Again, I didn't say I didn't agree. What YOU don't know is that the lead developer has openly said "If you don't like it, don't play it."

    That should tell you everything you need to know about the developers cares for your or my concerns.
    Aethos likes this.
  13. m0zone New Member

    i am a returning player. it is confusing what i should focus on but biggest issue i have is how horribly boring ror is . best part of sig quest line is house items . really why should i even try and get a group for heroics? other then getting couple of items that littlery raise 1-2 stats 5-10 points? then moving onto 2nd tier to do it again . with same monster models as 5-10 years ago with armor models from 10 years ago. this xpac seams stale like they didn't even try. and aug stats etc are more of a time sink due to they didn't have any real content
    EmJay, Drona, Rasheti and 1 other person like this.
  14. Tanto Done, finished, gone.

    Itemisation has been done in this boring, beige, formulaic manner for many expansions now. You'll find there's probably 3 or 4 items per expansion where more effort than copy/paste/add resolve/rename has been put in. It's such a shame they do this so cheaply, when they do put the effort in, they have people with the imagination to make really fun cool stuff. The way I see it, the community is literally the only reason to play EQ2 over anything else. If you don't have friends/guildies tying you to the game, you'll be asking yourself in 6 months time why you even bother.
    If they wiped the slate here, threw a load of money at it, put Chrol in charge of design decisions and hired a whole new team who actually want to make something special, EQ2 could be great. With the people they currently have pulling the strings, they're treading water until the game dies or they get to retire. Whichever comes first.
  15. Arclite Well-Known Member

    Itemisation has been ctrl +c and ctrl+v for a long time. Resolve combined with stat checks are the only thing stopping players from clearing end game content. That has been the case for a long time now and RoR is no exception. There is nothing by way of scripts you have not seen before in some shape or form, I mean there are 1-2 people working on scripts for years, you can only expect so much novelty out of them. Like the year before, RoR is wafer thin on content and the gating mechanism is again the resolve and ludicrous RNG grind. We all end up doing it but it does not mean we enjoy doing it but then again as Kander said it, "if you don't like it, don't play it".

    Regarding the OP, there is nothing remotely challenging about RoR - it is and always has been a stat check since certain individuals took over in the development team. You need to loosen up your purse strings and fast track your stat progression (i.e. max out your merc/familiar/mount, get at least GM on your spells) with microtransactions (which DPG heavily relies on), combine that with some understanding of your class and a decent group setup and you will be face rolling on the keyboard in the h2 zones in no time and then complaining about the content being too easy for casuals. H3 is not designed for casuals so don't worry about that.

    For any returning or new player, I would strongly advise them to avoid the live server like the plague, you will most likely get a better playing experience on the base TLE server (just don't get too excited, they messed it up too as expansions get unlocked) or better yet play another game.
  16. Athenia Well-Known Member

    I wondered when someone would say this. It's pretty asinine when a game will put up such a middle finger to new and returning players, but maybe the goal is to shut down EQ2 soon and that's why this is happening.

    As for the "if you don't like it don't play it" train of thought I know folks who have quit already, and a few more folks in my friend group have said this is their last expansion they'll buy and play in. As much effort as I'm trying to put into this game, in the end I go where they do. The fun I do have here is ultimately is because of the people in it and actually not because of the game itself. If they go somewhere else, then I will follow.
    Priority likes this.
  17. Dude Well-Known Member

    It's not just the new and returning players. Check out the latest post in this raiding guild recruitment post.
  18. Smashey Well-Known Member

    Because there is no content and farming 10 named with almost zero mechanics for months to do T3s is kinda icky.

    A ton of people completed meta collection, so why run H1 and H2s weeklies? For the dumb coins? meh.
    A few people have done all H3s so technically there is something a ton of endgame players need, but most are locked out because you need a very specific setup that is almost impossible with so few players.

    So its not even February and a ton of people who play EQ2 for endgame content is down to 10 named T1 and T2 encounters. Truly great gameplay experience.

    I advocated for a mythic+ system in EQ2 for years, even asked Kander on his old podcast and he just laughed and shrugged it off. Kander still thinks MMO endgame in 2023 should be exclusively raiding and thus, after just two months the game begins it raid logging routine and people who wants to play their MMO for more than raiding is out of luck.
    Aethos and Tyrval like this.
  19. Dusano Matron of Lore and Innovation

    ugh this is discussion is getting old....i mean i complained about it years and go along side other players and it worked great...(sarcasm) the devs barely speak in this threads just sounds like waste of time my best advice today is get friend and dual-solo for the signature quests and on.... and fun fact i'm not even playing yet in this expansion because i didnt buy it yet and idk if i will i'm thinking.....just thinking...but if i get it i will probably find a friend and start dual-soloing every expansion with that person (make sure it's a healer/fury is nice some dmg+some good healing) just ditch those mercenaries and find someone real.
    though i cant deny the facts about the level of difficult....i really dont know if any of the constant rants will do any difference i mean i tried and others tried and nothing. even solo is hard as heroic. just find a friend.
  20. Ingerimm Well-Known Member

    I can actually understand the changes made by the developers. However, that would be something for a new game on the market where you would have tons of players available. Where they would decide enough new people for the appropriate classes that are needed.

    EQ2 is now just over 18 years old. Many many players have left the game. Most of the people that still exist know each other, love each other, or hate each other. There is no longer an almost infinite pool of players.

    To introduce now, after more than 18 years, that you need almost perfectly built groupsets is unfortunately nonsensical. It may be good for those who have their well-established and near-perfect core groups.

    All others, ie groups that do not have 2 to 3 damage dealers and have enough healing and support now have a massive problem. Especially because you can't even get ahead in the T1 Heroic area without it.

    A group without DD, despite support, good healers and a good tank, needs 20 to 40 minutes for a heroic 1 named. Let alone the patience and time for an entire instance. An almost perfect group with 3 DD's does not need a minute for the same.

    Until now you could compensate for this, e.g. with the Ascension classes, unfortunately this addon seems to have been nullified.

    A DD with the same Ascension class and worse stats, now does up to 5 times more damage with the same Ascension spells than I did with my tank and better stats. That's so not correct. Since the Ascensions are actually separate classes and shouldn't have anything to do with the normal archetypes.

    In the past you could compensate for a lot with it. A tank + some healers wihtout a dd and a bit of patience could do instances. Now that's no longer possible, you need an almost perfect group. Unfortunately, there are no longer tons of players where you just snap your fingers and the group is full with all needed archetype classes. Quite apart from the fact that there are language barriers since there is only the English version of the game.

    The people who are no longer making progress at all will soon run out of patience completely and there will be even fewer players. This is not a sensible further development for EQ2 if the game is to continue to exist for much longer.


    Dear Dev's
    You should think about it.
    Thats the wrong way ...
    Aethos, Berserkerkitten and Priority like this.