No raid leader is recruiting a monk for their dps. Everyone knows they could/should be nerfed, and I'll let you in on something I've learned in my time raiding with a top guild, a guild I believe to be the best in the game, for the past 4 months or so. Despite all the mobs we've killed, and all the mobs we've wiped to, the topic of dps, whether it's a specific individual or the raid as a whole, has never been mentioned even once. 99% of raid mobs require discipline, and 99% of wipes are due to lack of it. There is the occasional mob that requires an all-out burn where everyone in the raid has to squeeze out every bit of dps possible, but you don't even get to those mobs without having the discipline to kill the previous mobs to get to that point. My main is a troub, and I rarely look at my own dps on the parse, I take more pride in my mages performing well and helping them be the best they can be. I'll extend to raid what I said about heroics, if a raid is failing because a monk isn't doing enough dps, then the problem lies elsewhere. . .
Actually I sort of have; back in KoS --> TSF when the dps tiers were a bit closer I was for pushing for dps to make itself known as part of the rotation for *all* players; initially just for trash but DPS as a whole was generally boosted across the raid so DPS checks were much easier and if we only had 3 groups one evening we could still do most if not all of the encounters; when tanks, support and even healers were snapping at the heels and sometimes surpassing "real DPS" those classes pushed themselves harder and became better players for it. In a way, its sad that the difference between t1 dps and the rest of the group/raid is so pronounced. I know *why* it is.. Its from expansions such as TSO where support classes and tanks and healers were dominating a lot of the top10 an even top 5 spots on a raid; given they also provide buffs and added raid DPS what's the point of a dps class when 2 chanters 2 bards 1 inquis per group was the ideal setup. But it has gone completely the other way now; when a healer has a choice between going full out working a good balance between curing,healing,buffing,scripts and their own personal DPS or just standing at the back and cycling through the same 4-5 buttons; no-one is going to know if they do the slacker method as long as their group is alive, cured and buffed afterall its the t1 dps fault if they do not do enough dps? Monks may have a broken spell but being able to add to a raid or group wide parse in a meaningful maner is something which shoudl be required from all classes.
You are missing my point I think. We are in a casual raid alliance and we have 4 fighter mains. Of the 4 fighters, 2 are tanks and the other 2 only have a spot since they can pull their weight by doing DPS.... If you are tank in top raid guild, then DPS is a luxury as no one cares about your DPS. However if you are fighter in a "not so top" raid guild, then DPS is not a luxury. DPS is a matter of raid spot or not! That was my point. Bringing this back to topic, so if you are a monk in the case I described above, you should be worried about OPness of dragon fire because dragon fire nerf or bug, means you will/may loose your raid spot...
some raid guilds are looking for monks or SK as tanks because they do also DPS u always play and recruit what is best at said time. Like people recruit warlocks as T1 dps but maybe not necros. and u could allow a 3rd fighter monkin raid because of his dps whereas u wouldn't allow a rd guardian. saying that people only look for a fighter that can survive is wrong, u want the best of both worlds
You bring the defensive tanks for the new content, offensive ones when you are farming it or the content simply does not need a defensive tank. With the boosts more offensive tanks gained to their defence so "all tanks can tank all content; all tanks can hold agro" guilds tend to min/max and bring the most offensive tank they can get away with that can survive the content they are on. There was a massive trend a few expansions ago to force more fighters into a raid by adding more memwipes/blurs or other effect but this only moved the tanks chosen to those who had the most powerful, and reliable rescues/snaps. So when you have a defensive tank, with good snaps and good DPS; it is no wonder they are the primary choice
This thread has again turned into a why monks "will or should" get nerfed again. I play a monk, I enjoy the class, ive also been a monk long before the #DF debate began. Just a bit of incite, theyre still one of the best defensive tanks because of their saves/immunities/stoneskin rotation. Not to mention inctercept, winds, outward calm, stonecold (also provided to bruisers), altruism, amongst many other helpful aspects. Do people know Bruisers provide raidwide + CA/Spell base? And since we are on the topic of dps tanks. Again I'm casting no aspersions as I personally like SK's and Zerkers. How many people know this answer? Which tanks have always prevailed at the top of the TANK DPS charts since inception? Ill give you a hint, one has deathmarch and the other has open wounds. And this is dating back to EoF/RoK. So lets not dive into these unnecessary tangents about why this and why that... Its becoming fruitless and incredibly tedious. Oh yea, in ToT bruisers were top of the charts with zerkers. lets not forget that.
We might as well close down the forums then! Hardly anything happens here and this thread it giving the impression there are still people who play fighters! Jokes aside, I completely disagree with you. I think state of dragon fire is valid topic for discussion. You might think I am biased since my main is SK but I don't think monks as tanks are OP at all. There is no reason for any fighter other bruiser to betray to Monk or be envious of Monk (ok may be slightly envious!). However I think dragon fire as spell is OP and its bad for monks and its bad for the game.
So a monk as a tank isn't OP, even without dragonfire? What other tank can go full turtle mode and have full dmg immunity endlessly? bruisers cant, Crusaders surely cant. Warriors cant. Tho zerkers are close. Is that not enough? What other tank beside bruiser can put another 2 deathsaves on any given target? none besides brawlers. so 2 brawlers sharing altruism = 5 deathsaves. what beats that? what tank can port any given target that could potentially be in line of fire of directly wiping raid due to 1 person being in wrong location? wait a monk. Should I continue on about why monks are still top dog without the need for dragonfire? PS. bulwark got nerfed to hell because of all the reflects and damage reduction from monk which affected all classes due to people crying. And it nerfed our intercept reflect to the ground. So that was compensated by scaling dragonfire (which no one asked for or had any idea was coming) and now were back in the same boat of other people whining way to much. Sometimes I forget this is the internet and I shouldn't invest so much merit in it. But it sure is quite fun replying to salty posts. You'll never catch many people crying about nerf SK this or nerf SK that, despite SK's having a clear leg up on the competition with the addition of doublecast since SK are all spells. So why is it the adverse now? So are you upset that monks are stomping on your territory? please enlighten me. I've got the meme generator ready for this.
The best part is you never see other people complaining about other tanks abilities. Monks don't give a damn about what other tanks do. Why do you? SK can still beat monks on the parse easily. just get better
I hold zerker as better overall defensivly. They seem immune to flurries and multiattacks (just going by ACT data for that statement) That is a big deal. PS: Intercept is still OP 24.8% damage reduction on a target and can be kept up 100% of the time or must the result show on a parse to be good .
Without having to sacrifice more offensively, you are absolutely right! zerkers would hold the edge full defensive mode. I concede plus ive been getting mine up to par, that damn meta is breaking my soul yet again. And yes the fact that intercept can pretty much always be applied to 8 targets on cooldown is splendid.
Sorry it is 15 hits now only so it can't be keept up on more then max 2 targets (I am lazy I just use it through the named on whoever is tanking)
So what we can all agree on is SKs and Zerkers need more defensive tools so they can tank in 'turtlemode' and continue to put out DPS and fix bruisers to match Monk's abilities. ... Now if anyone considered the poor Guards and Pallys we'll be cooking with gas
people HATE altruism I removed this spell coz everytime I put that spell on someone he removes it or blames me for casting that spell on them coz they are surprised and can't seem to press X to stand up so .. no more altruism (or because I'm dying and altruism is wasted)
I used to have an ACT macro for that in raids; but yes it was annoying; there should be AA choies or focuses which remove this feign death aspect almost every other escape death choice does afterall.
Faceroll on keyboard tank but moan about everything: SK well-rounded tank: Monk #EQ2_2018 Thread /closed. P.S. Hechada rings a bell, may be Fusion on Runnyeye?
Here is a tiny piece of info. You might want to take Bruiser into consideration. Ease of finding spells on the broker. The server I'm on only has a couple real serious Bruiser characters so there are almost always a ton of Bruiser spells available to purchase at reasonable prices.
