I could say the same about you but its already been proven over and over again that you have no idea what you are talking about. From saying i use towers on avatars, to how avoidance works, or how buckler line isnt good(but yet you are spec'd that way now), and now how this shield could never be a buckler... but yet it is and you still argue it shouldnt be. A-MAZ-ING PS. Done talking to you because... guess what... its a buckler deal with it.
Skel@Butcherblock wrote: Skel, the sad thing is, you haven't remotely touched anything I said in my last post and as usual, fall back to abusive bantering about nothing or how dumb I am, something your so classic at. Where am I arguing it isn't suppose to be a Buckler? No where, i'm arguing that the shield portection is not inline with the growth of the entire mechanics of the game, something that you think is correct which I pointed out also in my last post yet again, you fail to read it or debate with me on normal terms and fall back to questioning my intelligence, sad Skel. Yes I agree it is a buckler, one that will be adjusted.
-Aonein- wrote: The biggest issue is that for Buckler - T7, we have a legendary buckler with 503 protection, and then as far as fabled tower shields, the only one I've seen from t8 that has actually dropped is ~1600. So we've got these legendary quality shields that are better than the fabled counterparts. Then, there is a legendary t8 priest buckler that gives 900 protection (and the rainbow hues one from t7 was what, 700ish?). Seeing that sort of itemization lately leads me to believe that the devs are OK with making fabled items that have higher effective protection values than before. Personally I feel they've started a bad trend, but its not a single item that is out of alignment with the rest--its a good portion of the items available.
Skel@Butcherblock wrote: How nice of you to chop my post up Skel and put words into my mouth, here is the rest of the paragraph: For starters, there is no way in hell that the Virtue Guard is suppose to be a Buckler, none, zero, zilch. It is a Round shield by correct calculation and its protection value clearly shows that, just look at all of the other round shields. I was refering to the protection value of the shield, I would like to think that you can see that, but obviously you don't or can't or read between the lines and call people out on half a post or half a paragraph to suit your own accord, not that is any new news to anyone. Not to mention, the entire post was about calculating the protection values........reading comprehension disability much? I'm curious Skel, why don't you post in the Guardian forums? Bad things happen when you do right?
lost wrote: Yes I thought about it that way also, and with the higher dmg dealing mobs in RoK it would make sense to increase the shield protection values with the amount the mobs are hitting for, so yes I do agree they maybe starting a bad trend, but I still can't help but feel a 125% increase is still somewhat over powering.
-Aonein- wrote: So let me get this right... you exclude data because it doesnt support your idea. Did you ever think that maybe... this buckler could be an exception also? Like i said already, im done with you because the shield is a buckler now with the protection value i said it should have. Maybe in a month or two you can can say i was wrong. For now though its a dead subject.
I'm kinda convinced Tamek...mostly because I like your attitude over Skel's but also because these "exceptions" should never have existed...it's bad enough we're all using bucklers, now we're all gonna have the SAME buckler....ugh. I looked at other fabled bucklers at 68 and 58 (since this one is 78 ) and man it didn't seem to scale well. Then look at that one legendary buckler that's friggin' 501? that's better than the fabled bucklers by a decent amount! Stupid I say. I'm not saying Skel is wrong about it being a buckler....it IS a buckler, there's no denying that....I wish the devs would take a look at where they want these bucklers to go.
RufusDeMarko wrote: Yes I agree, the problem is the exception only exsists with Bucklers, all other types of shields are pretty static in thier growth via tier, quaility, quaility vs time spent playing or quaility vs tier of raid progression etc etc which is why people defend it so strongly. Is it the way it is meant to be? Can't be sure seeing the exception only really popped its head up last expasion or Tier 7 to be exact and only applied to 1 (one) shield. One thing remains true though is that the exception stayed within a reasonable increase percentage, which was roughly between 8 - 12%, now we are looking at a 125% increase, like we have been saying, maybe in a month or two it may get adjusted, it might not and this might be the direction they are taking at this point in the game due to STA line lacking in protection when using a buckler against the trash mobs in the game that smack us around for 4k+ dmg, who knows. Imho, I think a shield of this quaility (Virtues Guard) being so easily to get off a beginner opening raid in RoK is whats unbalanced, if they plan to keep this buckler the way it is, i'd like to see it moved to VP (Veeshans Peak) loot tables and make it worth while getting before every Zerker and Guard is running around with one trivializing yet again, the STA line.
-Aonein- wrote: Actually this is ********, compare the Tower Shields, the Shield of the Green Dragon from a 4men-able Epic x2 has way more more Protection/Block chance than ANY T7 fabled, ANY other T8 legendary and any NON-HIGHEST-END Raid Content Tower Shields, and guess what? it's not even a tower shield, it's a kite shield. \aITEM 2052720707 -1157905432:Shield of the Green Dragon\/a \aITEM -925131982 -1124777174:Grim Defender\/a \aITEM -1154408341 -303273988:Enduring Wall\/a So seriously stop whining about and go get yourself one of those virtue's guard since Protector's Realm is pickupable, and about itemization, yes it's screwed, should this shield be fixed? Not at all if they don't start from: -Instanced/Quested Legendary items being better than Raid-obtainable gear (regardless of tier) -Instanced/Dungeon Fabled items being WAY WAY better than Raid-obtainable gear (even better than VP relic) -T1/T2 Raids Fabled items being way better than VP *insert random insult here* gear Will they nerf any of those items just because it's slightly better than VP gear (even if instanced?) No because otherwise casual players will cry a river Will they nerf Virtue's Guard just because it's the best (only) fabled non-healer buckler in game (with no legendary non-healer buckler)? Would be way too dumb Will they improve VP loot? seems so But then again VP is piss easy if u just get used to MT randomly getting one-rounded by double attacks even casual guilds will be able to get to Silverwing in a couple of runs with EoF relic
"Will they nerf Virtue's Guard just because it's the best (only) fabled non-healer buckler in game (with no legendary non-healer buckler)?" That's my current complaint. Our guild is not raiding RoK yet and it's ridiculous that the ONLY warrior buckler upgrade in the whole tier is that single item...
Comalv wrote: For starters, Kite = Tower, they made that change a LONG time ago. They keep it as a Kite for looks and lore seeing Knight classes weren't Tower shield bearers. Statistically there is no difference from a kite to a tower any more and I believe its been like that for what, almost 2 years?? Your suggested ideas to fix the loot progression wouldn't work because these exceptions that we are talking about began in Tier 7, with less then a handful of items, it exsisted and no one questioned it because it was such a minimal margin of difference not worth complaining about because that difference was made up and then some from reactive procs or other beneficial means. Now we see a major difference from out of no where. Again, if they are going to leave it this way, they should seriously move the VG's (Virtue Guards) loot table to a higher tier raid. I do agree how ever that they need to start doing a much more thorough scan of itemization across the tiers and quaility, obviously, the notion they once had of items based of level, tier, quaility has gone out the window at this point and pretty much explains the huge list of items that have been reworked with RoK itself and more then likely more to come. They have obviously gone the route of casual raiding this expasion unless they have plans to increase the power of the epics or rewrite the scripts, my suggestion is to move the shield (Virtues Guard) to Veeshans Peak for a reason, so not to trivialize the shield and have nothing to upgrade for the next year, hard core raiding guilds who have this shield are stuck with it and left with nothing to upgrade too because we see a total repeat of FTH Howler buckler all over again. What I am saying is give people something to work towards and have it drop of higher end tier instead of a beginning opening raid in RoK that a pick up raid can do. I really do not want to see another repeat of Tier 7 where every man and his dog is running around with Howler bucklers because this (Virtues Guard) is the only viable shield out there. Its a pity that they have totally lost track of itemization and its growth and have to go back and revamp half of the items in RoK.
I saw another buckler linked last night with 900+ protection and no special effects. It was for Troubs, Dirges and Priests. Strange.
Still hoping for a Legendary faction merchant or quested buckler upgrade. It's kinda silly that many of us are still stuck using our T7 bucklers.....
