Unfortunately 3rd rate healer is how warden is looking. Clerics have buffering reactives and best heals, mystics buffering wards and 2nd best heals, druids inefficient regens that cant keep up with mob dps and worst heals. Who's going to be last to get picked up off LFG or to fill healer slots on raids? I'm glad I have a 50 alt at this point. I really did enjoy being a warden more though.
Ok, /equip Flame retardant boxers Guys, seriously, look at the rest of the changes before you whine nerf. I'm a fellow druid, so I feel your pain to some extent, although having been the priest whipping boy, you'll get little sympathy from me Everyone's healing is down. The reason is the mobs hit less hard now, so you don't need as much healing (well at least all at once like you do now). Also don't complain about mit/avoid buffs getting nerfed. Both mit & avoid are capped at 80% now, so who cares if you can buff for (insert stupid random number here) of mitigation, it would be useless. Finally, for everyone whining about templars this, reactives that: They are *huge* agro pullers now. Infact our HoTs are now the easiest of the 3 heal lines to manage agro with (because it's a known quantity over time, rather than a reactive which can be all agro at once depending on the blow). So everyone whining about "we'll be useless in raid", etc., get real. As a Fury I raid daily. My guild actually likes having me on raids, because I know how to use my skills, know what to do when everything goes wrong (i.e. say you're out doing your daily Drayek farm, and he bugs and you all wipe). Rather than complain about what you *think* you are losing, look at what you are gaining. Increased power efficiency. Our HoTs are now less likely to be wasted because mobs will hit more consistently for less damage (that was always the problem with HoTs under the old system, so much healing just got tossed out the window cause the tank would: avoid (wasted HoT Heal) avoid (wasted HoT Heal) avoid (wasted HoT Heal) get smacked for 3000hp of damage (useless HoT Heal applied, but wards/reactive preferable to manage the damage) Now it's more like get smacked for 250hp (Hey the HoT is useful now) get smacked for 250hp (Hey the HoT is useful now) get smacked for 250hp (Hey the HoT is useful now) Given the new combat system, it's the non-druid classes that should be upset. Their heals now pull agro and (as a result) are much less desirable that ours. Osiri @ Oggok (lvl 50 Fury) PS: For those complaining 'I don't wanna do damage': Under the new combat system your HoTs are much more useful, meaning you have more free time, meaning (gasp) you can nuke now... Another plus in my books vs. the other priest classes. Message Edited by otlg on 08-15-2005 08:57 AM
the devs said that one of the goals of the revamp is to make every class feel more distinct. Before the revamp we had superior heals, had the only elemental resist buffs among priests, and could cast duststorm. That is what makes the warden class distinct in a nutshell. We no longer have superior healing. We are not the only priest class that can buff elemental resists. Duststorm has been nerfed into oblivion with extremely high power costs. As a class, what is it that makes wardens distinct from any other priest now?
Well as far as I know you and us (Fury's) are still the only elemental resist priests. It kinda sucked that you guys had elemental resist buffs and we got ... nothing ... So honestly, seeing as you are only sharing that with Fury's who are like your brother/sister class I don't see the big deal. Wardens and Furys are a lot closer now, which makes sense given the shared roots as Druids. I never understood the huge gap in the first place. What makes you different is druids now do more damage. That makes you different. To differentiate between Wardens and Furys you guys heal better, and we hit harder. Bear in mind we are both subclasses of druids, so to expect vast differences is kinda silly IMHO. The fact that you 'had superior healing' was a dead give away that it would be toned down. Honestly I can't say I'm surprised. Huge imbalances existed between the priest class. Not just unique traits, but core competancy we were all over the map, and that really didn't make sense for a game design perspective. I still think you will find you heal more than adequately with the changes to the entire combat system. Efficiency is the key to the new combat system, not pure raw healing power. You need to start looking at things in that way. Battles are going to take longer and be more the 'death of a thousand cuts' so small efficient heals work better. Osiri [edit] I see the one star bandit has struck, ostensibly because I didn't scream nerf at the top of my lungs. You *really* need to get a hobby folks if you can one star and not even post a rebuttal. Message Edited by otlg on 08-15-2005 11:02 AM
The new combat system make reactives even more efficient if they are hit more often for less. Wards also. Yes it will take clerics and shamans a little bit to learn how to use them properly but any skilled healer will figure it out. They are still more efficient and faster than regens and they can use that to their advantage. Wards and reactive aggro isnt going to be enough to keep them from being used properly, you cant think our best hope is for them not being able to use them. They've already lowered the aggro on them once. If we will still heal fine in normal group settings. Good. But we aren't looking at how we compare to the new combat system, we are looking at how much more effective the other classes are. Any time there is a disparity like this and one class is better than the other at their primary role you will have problems. If I am making an xp group in a hard zone, why would I pick you with less healing capability on paper when compared to that of the templar with equal skill lfg also. I wouldnt. On a side note, Banditman added some more classes to his chart today: http://mail.thetemplars.net/lines_beta3.htm Message Edited by Fingolfin2 on 08-15-2005 10:42 AM
Fingolfin: I understand what you are trying to say, but I totally disagree with you. You are ignoring certain really important things. One that is getting totally ignored is healing efficiency. HP/cost. In this area we have been improved (at least us Fury's) and as compared to other priests, we are pretty much in-line or ahead by a large margin (cholorstorm/owls restoration is 2x as efficient as any other priest's group heal). Given the way fights are going to be happening in the new combat system (longer, with lower damage) healing efficiency is the single most important stat IMHO. All my arguments are predicated on this belief, which is based both on actual test experience, and comments from the devs. It may change. In that case there may be an issue. But right now everyone seems to be having a real hard time (same on the Fury forums, btw) getting their heads around this concept. Small, efficient, fast heals are the key now. The day of the big heal is going away. Templars are slightly more efficient at single heals. Makes sense, they suck at everything else (no offense fellow tank savers ) We rock all other priest classes at group heals big time right now based on efficiency and timing. Plus our offensive skills are less costly, and our buffs/debuffs seem cheaper too. More power = more healing for longer. I guess my point is, look beyond the numbers and apply them in the situtation they will be used. Osiri PS: thanks for the updated link
Even with the power efficiency agrument take a look at that chart. We have the worst HPp for minor healing, arch healing, group healing. Our special healing requires the person being healed to not be at full health for maximum efficiency which is tied with templars that dont anyway. Our special group heal requires all 6 members to not be at full health to realize that efficiency where clerics and shamans distribute it. The only situation we would do well on this is an AOE. I dont see us as having any great advantage in the HPp area but its easy to see the lack in HPs. There will be times when you need maximum HPs as well as power to last.
We are comparing ourselves to the other classes because that is what SOE is doing when they are "balancing" us. Yes in addition to balancing all priest classes to the new content. But where we are getting hit is where it hurts. In our healing. Our direct heals lost the small heals tacked onto the end of spells like bloom and natures caress. Our nukes did not get upgraded to the 1000 point spells that furys now get. I do not mind in any way sharing our ability to mitigate elemental damage with our brother and sister druids. But that does not change the fact that we are losing something that was unique to wardens. Finally yes the nerfed dustorm, through game mechanics by making +defense not be as useful as it was. I am fine with that. But why add a 5.5 mana per second cost to the spell when it is no longer a problem? One nerf making it marginal, and bringing it back to a reasonable power level i can understand. But a second nerf making it un-useable. WHY bother giving us the spell? IF you don't like what it does, take the spell away. Replace it with a heal, we will understand. Also, in our comparisons to templars. They still get plate armour. Their reactives can still heal MUCH more than our HOT's can in a much shorter time. And now their direct heals are more effiecent and heal for more than ours. All we had going for us was that our spells healed for more over time. If that HOT we caste was never wasted by the fighter being at full health, in the end we did heal for more. But now, they want to standardize heals and they have put us at the back of the healing line. :smileysad:
There are lots of great posts in this thread. I'm just not sure the message will get through to the people that need to hear it by posting here. Could you please add your comments to the Combat and Spell Changes forums just in case?
I started a thread...just with a general comment - in the combat changes. If you all want to add to it, it's here: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=2772
