We are still losing out on ac for ourselves with that change because spirit of the oak currently gives that ac anyway so there's no change in that regard (and it actually gives MORE than 470 ac currently... 530 @ ad3) So yes, we ARE losing AC with these changes and it's more than just from wolf form.
Croake, from what it looks like, that effect only lasts 3 seconds after Duststorm is casted. =( Unless I'm reading it wrong...
Who cares about our DPS. As a raiding or even grouping Warden I could care less if I had a single nuke. That's simply not my job. So what if I have a better AoE nuke? you think for a second with the loss of parry and agro changes that I am every going to use it? No I'm going to be sweating chain healing just to keep anyone alive now.
Well, I'm looking forward to it, and yes I raid everyday too. So, here's my take on it: Gale of Healing Test Adept 1: 165 power, 367-448 healing Live Adept 1: 383 power, 626 healing Upgrade overall: power eff. improved, -3 seconds on cast time, -15 recast time Chlorostorm Test ap4: 227 power, 497 total healing, +2 recast time Live Adept1: 312 power, 558 total healing Upgrade: power eff. boost, and delivers total healing faster Chloroplast Test ap4: 114 power, 770 total healing Live Adept1: 148 power, 1332 total healing Unchanged overall: Well, hard to say if it really does take a dip in pow eff. due to Tier diffrence but seems unchanged overall. Hierophantic Genesis Test ap4: 205 power, 4050 total healing Live ap4: 41 power, 4400 total healing Slight nerf overall: Meh... it's nothing to lose sleep over. * Yes, shame on me for not being able to fine ap4s and comparing it to adept1. So please take those with a grain of salt. **The heals with a range I averaged out the values ***Not going to touch Sylvan Waters or Verdant Rapture, it was only a matter of time before they got tuned down... and I will miss them but I don't believe their done so I'm reserving judgement. The buff revamp looks pretty neat aside from losing a 5% self proc and a 2% group proc plus the 2% heal proc... Duststorm got buffed but man that is a big power drain, 1170 at adept 1, so it looks like it's long term usefulness may be shot... Tranquilizing Spores, sigh, that **** slow proc is the only reason to use that spell currently as the HoT does not stack with Chloroplast- hope they fix it before it goes live. Ok, I take that back, Iooking at some of the buff changes is saddening. I picked Warden way, way back when because I thought heal procs would be very useful and just plan neat. But they did change Praise of the Untaimed, looks fairly neat. Reincarnation looks awesome, lasts for 60 seconds- not bad considering how much the current sucks and being revived with 15% hp instead of 1% (bout frigging time). Steward of the Forest looks like it has potential and a very nice solo buff. And yay, root and AoE root. And thank you very much for taking time to post to both the OP and the tester. Message Edited by Xylia on 08-12-2005 01:20 PM
Hey, I liked stacking Hot effects as much as the next warden, but as long as the hpp and hps of the spells allow me to be as good as any other priest with similar spell upgrades I'm cool with it. I'd love to see what Chloroplast Master I looks like, it might alleviate all of our fears. And someone mentionned that they see our spells don't scale, I think there's not enough information to say things like that since we only have adept 1 stats to compare.
That is the problem, hps is really lacking on our regens versus others. It really shows the weakness of regens vs reactives and wards if I understand the mechanics correctly. from the chart http://mail.thetemplars.net/lines_beta1234.htm Compare the inquis reactive vs fury wild bloodflow regen at adept 3 To get the full 1112pts of healing the fury must wait 14 seconds for regen no matter the circumstances. There is no benefit to recasting. The inquistor reactive can trigger 5times per cast for a total 1265. With the low rescast time, he can cast that twice while the fury hot is ticking away if the tank is hit enough. Theoretically the inquis could heal 2530pts of damage in the time it takes a fury to heal 1112pts. Twice as efficient in hps under the right conditions. Message Edited by Fingolfin2 on 08-12-2005 07:36 AM
The buff revamp looks pretty neat aside from losing a 5% self proc and a 2% group proc plus the 2% heal proc... Duststorm got buffed but man that is a big power drain, 2340 at adept 1, so it looks like it's long term usefulness may be shot... _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Damb, I missed that. Duststorm, our bread and butter in RAIDs has been severely nerfed with increased power costs and a duration of only 3 minutes. In the past it was quit apparent that someone at SOE really hated Wizards but obviously their focus has turned to the Warden.
Isn't it 1170power total for dust storm over the 3 minute period? (180/2)*13 I don't think it's as bad as the number sounds, since I use a lot more than 13 power per 2 seconds during normal battles right now. I'll probably be using manastone more often though. I forgot to check. How often does the current dust storm draw power? Message Edited by Croake on 08-12-2005 08:57 AM Message Edited by Croake on 08-12-2005 08:57 AM
Dusstorm used to cost about 1.2 power per second but now it will cost 6.5 power per second. Or about 5.5 times more power. Over the couse of 3 minutes it will cost about an additional 1k power more than it does now. Over the course of a raid it will cost pretty much our entire power supply to keep up. I'm hoping there was a typo there or something because it's been nerfed into uselessness as HG was.
I totally agree about the power concerns of using Duststorm Clint. Furthermore, it only lasts 3 minutes. Currently, during long RAIDs I just have to recast this once and during the 30 sec recast period I find I am stacking additional HoTs to compensate for the drop in defense. With only a 3 minute timer multiple 30 sec recast periods will be needed and this will definately burn through all the priest's power reserves. Thus, as Clint stated "I'm hoping there was a typo there or something because it's been nerfed into uselessness as HG was."
Yeah I goofed and forgot to divide once, doing math in the am is never good *sigh* Fixed the number in the above post. Sorry for the mess up. Doesn't look too bad at all now, only costs 3510 for an 10 minute fight if you cast it at the begining then recast it twice plus the added effects may make the higher power usage quiet bareable. As for HG uselessness I think that's kinda funny, pre-WoF I used the spell regulary to help with power management during a stable lull in battle but since WoF I only use it during instances... Which reminds me, I hope they took that damnable aoe out and replaced it with something that makes more sense. Message Edited by Xylia on 08-12-2005 01:27 PM
And I rarely cast HG in raids either because it's unnecessary or puts me in barrage/AE range of mobs. A 2 minute recast makes it unlikely to be cast more than once in any case. And with avoidance caps there may not be any reason to put a warden in the MT group anyway.
Banditman has a new chart up with spells from 3 goodie class representatives at app1. http://mail.thetemplars.net/lines_beta2.htm The special group heal is misleading since the wardens is /6 Message Edited by Fingolfin2 on 08-12-2005 02:26 PM
I did'nt see our dot in the spells there... did I miss it? I assume we still have it and it still debuffs for cold? Changes don't look too bad. I knew warden heals were going to get hit hard (when ever devs warn you you know its going to be a good whack). As much as I don't like it it does fit in with what they are trying to do. We are druids, druids do the most damage of all the priests so we can't be the best healers and I'm ok with that, we'll adapt. Theres enough neat things in the revamp to make up for it.
I am sorry I didn't role a priest class to do damage, and giving me more dps at the expense of my heals is just dumb. Nobody is going to pick a healer for their dps. It's like picking a mage for their tanking ability, not something that should be part of the equation. Right now Wardens are wanted on raids for 3 reasons: 1. Our direct heals 2. Duststorm 3. Elemental resist Well you can certainly strike 1 of that list come the revamp. As Fingolin posted in another thread, our direct heals are now 15% weaker than a Templars I don't know about your server, but on mine we have a whole lot of Templars, and not many Wardens. Since you can now stack as many Templars as you want, and they heal better than Wardens, why bother taking a Warden along? Ah Duststorm, the spell tank's currently love us for. Ignoring both the nerf to Duststorms duration and the fact it has knockback, there is one overwhelming reason why we will NEVER be using this spell on a raid. It will cost us 1170 power to have up for the 3 min duration. Yup, you read that right 1170 power. If there is one consistent complaint running through all the threads posted on the combat revamp, it's the fact that power usage is going to be a serious issue, given the nerf to power regen. There is no way we are going to be able to afford to have this spell up, given it's current power cost. And that leaves us with our Elemental resist buffs. Well I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but guess what, we now share this with our Fury brethren. We can buff just over 1k heat/cold buffs, but Furys can do just about the same thing, plus they get a nifty spell called Porcupine, which raises ALL mitigation by 1.2k. Oh and they can nuke too. So there you have it. The only reason we will be needed on raids is as a cold/heat resist buff bot. As someone so aptly put it, you can be afk for that. Frankly I don't see any neat stuff that is going to compensate us for losing our ability to be a main healer.
There are so many nerfs here I can't imagine how anyone would be happy with these. I'm not even gonna talk about the heals but draw your attention to some of the other spells people apparently haven't noticed: Tranquilizing Spores: doesn't cost a conc point but it can only be cast on ONE target. This cuts the effectiveness of the spell by 5/6th, thats a horrifying nerf. Anyone else notice that Seizing Vines went from useless to utterly and totaly worthless? Compare Seizing Vines to Undergrowth after the revamp, what are the devs smoking? The difference between these 2 spells now is that Undergrowth reduces AGI by 44 and effects the entire encounter, what does Seizing Vines do to make it worth casting? It costs a whopping 9 less power, big freaking deal. So for 9 extra power you can cast a spell that has the exact same effect but effects the entire encounter AND reduces the encounter's AGI by 44! Why don't they just completely remove Seizing Vines from our spell line, it was almost worthless before, now its an absolute joke! And now for the really bad news about Seizing Vines and Undergrowth: Duration: 15 seconds and 12 seconds respectively. A debuff that lasts a quarter of a minute? Don't blink cuz you might miss it!
One note Eclectic, seizing vines and undergrowth are no longer debuffs. They are roots, like mage type roots. Which I have no clue if its a nerf or a upgrade if agility debuffing means more damage from physical attacks then losing that might be a nerf, but giving us roots might be an upgrade. So who knows. All i know is that spells like natures caress are why i chose to be a warden, i like the effeciency over time of our spells. Now, they seem to be.. well crap. they might cost 20 less power to cast, but they are just vanilla direct heals. I love Bloom and its companions because of the little extra heals that made them different than every other random healing spell ever created. I mean i don't mind efflorence *spelling i know* and the simplicity of heal 444 damage for 100 power, but it is kinda boring healing 400 then 300 then 400 again then 300 ect.. Also trying to get the MOST of out the little healing ticks was fun and a challenge when just grinding. I really hope they revamp our heals back to where they were. I mean SOE needs to realize that all our HOT can do is X health over Y time. It is a definate limit that is not shared by wards or reactives. They need to balance this accordingly, just like they balanced wards to be larger because they did not take mitigation into effect. I am happy now that when i am a secondary healer to a templar, they actually can get aggro instead of the 1 HOT i throw drawing the mob to me. Soon, the rest of the healing world will have to deal with aggro as well *devilish laugh*:smileytongue:
Would try to stay away from comparing how many hp you can heal currently to what is on test. Fighters gonna be taking like half the damage. Unless your used to abused defense and can only do raid mobs you can abuse defense on you might be in for a surprise. If you can take someone who cant actually miss a hit but only avoid by blocking parry etc this will be a little easier on you. Smoother hp dropping. Mitigating is gonna be like twice as high it looks. Be alot of low hits on well geared tanks. Wouldnt worry abotu duststorm either chances are it wont be a spell youll be using on raids much. Wont really be boosting tanks avoidance up to actually being able to avoid more on raids. Is not so much a duststorm nerf as defense every where was nerfed so i dont consider any old defense buffs as a big defining spell anymore. It might be better than i give credit but over all it will be pretty situational. Would have been cooler if they changed it to adding like 750hp 750mit for duration. Since it eats power that would be alot more beneficial from revamp. Message Edited by blueduckie on 08-13-2005 07:38 AM
I rolled my Warden to be a healer. As stated by the previous poster, all the information at the release of the game stated that all healing archtypes would be able to fill the primary healing role equally. When that no longer becomes the case and my Warden is nothing but a third rate healer then it's time to move on. I will not re-roll as a templar or inquistor and level again from 1 - 50 just to be viable in a group. It's hard enough without the revamp to convince people that Warden's are as good a healer as a plate cleric. When and if that becomes next to impossible after the re-vamp then, as I said, It's time to move on. K
