Requests from a Master Weaponsmith

Discussion in 'Tradeskill Discussion' started by ARCHIVED-Troubor, Mar 1, 2008.

  1. ARCHIVED-Lasai Guest

    Well, I brought up blood ore not as a solution, but as an illustration of a missed opportunity for WS, and as an illustration of the value of items beyond single tier use, as most of the Blood Ore sets my AS sold were devout plate sold as appearance slot items to people long past actually using them.
    I honestly think the first things we need to be asking for is things that have worked for other Trades, things that are in game, and things that for some reason were not considered for WS. Appearance slots are one of these.
    Another is proper itemization. Right now, my level 80 assassin is carrying around 6 Mastercrafted weapons. Why? Because in T8 these items were finally itemized in a way to be attractive and usable for that class, mainly because of speed. I'm not finding Legendary vendor items or common quest drops coming even close to what I want. Sure, I could run out and get Anaphalaxis, but, its not enough better, to me, to live with the ghastly green graphic. Conversely, my SK is NOT carrying MC weapons around, and again it is Itemization or lack of it that is the key. I would happily buy a slow 2-H if one existed, or a Str Int sword. T8 was and is a step in the right direction, and one I feel could be further improved upon, and used as a model to repair the 50-70 doldrums.
    Simply, Using Anaphalaxis as an example, I am NOT asking that MC be equal or better, just be good enough where I am not forced to use the hidious looking thing. I am very happy, in the case of my Assassin, that t8 itemization isnt forcing me to make that choice. I hated that t7 ghost dagger with a purple passion but simply could not make that choice, given t7 MC itemization.
    MasterCrafted doesnt have to be better than legendaries. It just has to be good enough where it is no longer a no-brainer to dump them in favor of ANY legendary. Again, using my Assassin as an example, it was a no brainer to dump the t-7 1.6 swing MC in favor of a cheap legendary Dark Linger with a 2 second swing. Had that T7 stabber swung at 3 or 4 would have presented it as a viable choice rather than an automatic vendor dump. So, it would have come down to a choice, proc on the Legendary, Stats and Swing on the MC. Thats what we need, CHOICES, not auto superiority by tag. In a perfect world people would carry both, and use whatever item had situational superiority. MC only has to be a viable alternative, not go head to head with Legendaries.
    We see this in Armor already. My SK makes a choice of using the properly itemized Devout, or, using Drops that MAY be better in some respects. Again, it isnt a no brainer, but a logical choice wieghing plus and minus. My Assassin at level 72 had to wiegh the absolute value of the stats, resists, plus pierce and slash on MC chain VS the 25 haste on her t7 gloves. I ended up buying the gloves and still use both depending on solo or group play. Choice is good.
    I think adding a couple different imbues would have value, or even just a power proc imbue. Again, this is already in game, as my WW can make wands with many different imbue effects. (too bad they are activatable, but, the mechanics to create different imbues from a single raw are there).
    And as for consumables, they are just a money tool, the money needed to further progression, purchase raws, make a living while you pursue the craft. My Woodworker's products I love to make are the new t8 bows, but, mundane items like arrows and totems funded the trip.
    As far as consumables go, I would like to see a cut and paste of the Alchemy model. Give us 3 common oils and 3 "master" oils. Plus Crush, Pierce, Slash (or whatever) scaled to tier. Bring back ingots as a by product of Rares, usable like Dusts for the "master" versions and commons made from common raws. Give Sages the Subjugation, Disruption, etc using thier dusts. Copy something that works. Stop using imbue mats as the new plugin for every situation.
    Im not arguing, but I do feel that asking for changes that have made a difference to other classes and are already in game in some manner may get us farther than asking for new items or agitating the people who think Player Made weapons should never be on a par with drops of any sort.
    And I should add a disclaimer, I am one of those odd ducks that place a value on things beyond stats. I ride a pretty horse and don't care about warg or rhino speed. I have no interest in Epics because, to my eyes, they are cartoonish sillyness. I carry a pair of MC dirks in town because they look nice. So, my opinions are influenced both by performance and visual appearance. I've always said, if you Itemized a Muu Muu and Black Handbag properly all the Uber players would be happily bashing mobs wearing flowered housedresses and using a purse. Im not one of those people. :)
  2. ARCHIVED-Lasai Guest

    Im going to add one last comment, directed at no one, just an observation.
    Be careful asking for recipes or items that are so good that adventure types perceive being forced to buy crafted. Particularly weapons.
    I was a 12pt Master Weaponsmith early on in SWG. I made Server Best weapons. Mythical, to use an EQ term. It was a crafter's dream game at that time. However, I was unaware of the resentment this caused among the adventuring community, and didn't really realize the depth of it until an SWG Red Name slipped and called us a bunch of "greedy, hoarding money hungry crafters" on the SWG forums.. a sentiment shared by many, it seems.
    This was in spite of the fact that crafters were totally dependant on Adventure types for the items needed to craft the best. You gave up far too much combat capability to loot the best comps, and had to purchase or group with pure combat people to get them.
    When NGE came crafters got slapped down, and slapped down hard. For some reason, there is a strong feeling that adventurors should never have to buy the best, that the best is the realm of looting only, and this is strongest regarding weaponry. Many adventure types feel, rightly or wrongly, that crafting is a trivial no risk sideline that should not produce anything of meaning.
    I feel this must be considered when asking for anything.
    I guess this is why it appears carpenters get a lot of new items. It is safe. No one screams risk vs reward over a light fixture. I feel bad that Domino has to tread that fine line of trying to provide crafters with more content, yet having to avoid stepping into the risk vs reward maelstrom.
  3. ARCHIVED-ShallaBal Guest

    I agree with some of the posts and added another update to my list on page 1 which I would like to point out again for discussion. It is adding 2 inventory slots for scabbards. (slashing and piercing weapon scabbards made by WS, crushing holster made by tailor).
    The general problem we face is that whatever "general" change is done to our tradeskill will have to be rolled out to other tradeskills as well. So, while I think that having the chance to individualize stats on weapons (i.e. give +20 str and +19 agi to a cobalt long sword) would be the weaponsmith-revamp-overkill, the AS, tailor etc could ask for the same (not that I mind implementing this idea across all tradeskills).
    Please let's use this thread just to add ideas about revitalizing the tradeskill.
  4. ARCHIVED-BigChiefJJ Guest

    I'm not a weaponsmith - I'm an adventurer. I do however use weapons. In leveling my latest character (dirge) I would by a pair of MC weapons each time I hit a new tier. I bought the two best that suited me one slashing one piercing so that I could keep my skills up in each. As far as I'm concerned the MC weapons are the best that I can easily get (my dirge is only up to level 70 right now however). When I hit 72 I will more than likely buy another two MC weapons unless I happen to find something better. That being said the same thing held true for Armor, at 42, 52, 62 I bought new armor and will probably do so at 72 as well, or at least replace a number of pieces.
    That being said, I don't think any tradeskill class is designed with the end gamer in mind. Everything that is produced (with the exception of some consumables) will ultimately be replaced when a character reaches end game. What needs to be done is give these character choices as to how equip themselves in getting to end game.
    Someone made a suggestion about weapons geared toward certain classes - this would be great. I could not find a weapon that had STR INT on it for my dirge - I would have gladly used two of those - or something with STR, STA, INT for when I'm soloing (probably all scouts would like these two combination). But the thing that really needs to be added to the T8 weapons to make them compete with the drops is the effects. Add some +crit or some +dps or +attack speed or +double attack or + CA or spell damage or + heal. Honestly though I could really do without the + power and +health regin - the new WW round shields, I was disappointed with.
    Domino -youve asked for help from the community before, why not a thread about "whats your class and what types of stats/effect would you like to see on specific weapons"? I'm sure it would get plenty of replies.
  5. ARCHIVED-Stillfox Guest

    At this point, why bother debating the nature of the t8 weapons we should be making, their place in the game, their viability versus dropped legendary, blah blah blah. Make it the DEV's jobs to come up with some appropriate weapon recipes the way they did the armour recipes. The essential truth remains that we got hosed.

    Armourers got 17 new recipes - 2 full suits of lev 77 armour, 2 shields and a cloak.

    We got 6 temporary whestones. BOGUS.

    Even 3 new lev 77 weapons - a crush, a slash, and a pierce, one from each of the factions, would have been nice. 6 weapons would have been even better - 1 from each faction using the t8 rares, 1 from each using the essence.

    Even with 6 weapons and 6 whetstones, we'd still be 5 recipes behind the armourers, but you'd have a whole lot more happy weaponsmiths on your hands. Like many of the other posters, I'm a Master Weaponsmith (the first on my server) who would LOVE to be in demand for his ability to MAKE WEAPONS.
  6. ARCHIVED-oveymaddruss Guest

    Stillfox wrote:
    That is exactly the kinda thing I would have liked to seen implemented, perhaps it still may in a future patch. It would be nice to think our weapons accross the tiers remained consistent in stats and weild type and that we got some new unique faction 'weapons'
    Wodreaux post too makes perfect sence, some weapons we could make that have stats suited to a class perhaps on the imbue you could add the +cbt art dmg or +haste etc - all idea's and perhaps some will get noticed.
    But im new to the angry community mob ganging up on devs demanding changes - but hey if that will work I will go light my torch and grab a pitchfork from nextdoor!! "
    Manuell - Master Weaponsmith of Nagafen (fp)
  7. ARCHIVED-Bledso Guest

    I am not a weaponsmith but I am a customer or was.
    I can totally agree with the fact that WS's got the short end of the Staff when it comes to product usefulness.
    I would like to see better weapons to be offered especially at higher levels.
  8. ARCHIVED-Ookami-san Guest

    The best thing that could happen to weaponsmithing is a modular approach to enchanting weapons - similiar to adornments.
    For instance...
    T8 Weapon - Basic weapon components
    Leather handle (bristled), Blade (ferrite), Crossguard (Deklium), Pommel (kunzite)
    You could then combine those to make your standard Handcrafted sword.
    To improve the sword, you could add things to it, either through commission or by making them similiar to adornments
    For instance -
    Leather handle (bristled) + Blade (ferrite) + Crossguard (Deklium) + Pommel (kunzite) = Handcrafted
    Leather handle (bristled) + Blade (ferrite) + Crossguard (Deklium) + Pommel (kunzite) + Essence= Handcrafted Imbued
    For Mastercrafted, there would be better abilities as you added more rares
    Leather handle (bristled) + Blade (INCARNATE) + Crossguard (Deklium) + Pommel (kunzite) = Mastercrafted
    Leather handle (HIDEHOUND) + Blade (INCARNATE) + Crossguard (Deklium) + Pommel (kunzite) = Mastercrafted II
    • This could add some special ability to the basic Mastercrafted, like +5 piercing or something similiar
    Leather handle (HIDEHOUND) + Blade (INCARNATE) + Crossguard (TYNNONIUM) + Pommel (kunzite) = Mastercrafted III
    • This would add another ability to the weapon, in addition to the MC II - say, +5 Double Attack
    Leather handle (HIDEHOUND) + Blade (INCARNATE) + Crossguard (TYNNONIUM) + Pommel (ROUGH FIRE EMERALD) = Mastercrafted IV
    • This would add more damage, +10 or +20 to minumum and maximum damage
    And perhaps the Mastercrafted II - IV would not be imbueable... but instead take two adornments, instead of just one. Or, alternately... you could imbue it with the new chromatic essence for some super proc.
  9. ARCHIVED-Troubor Guest

    Now, before I post, please realize I am not advocating pulling any recipes from Woodworkers or any other class. FAR from it. This includes the new RoK faction recipes.

    Anyway, one thing that truly irritated me is that after taking a second glance at the list of recipes for each class, Woodworkers among other things got a 2h mage staff and a 1h brawler baton if memory serves me right among their list of items. I think they may have a bow recipe too.
    So, the developers feel that it's viable for at least one class to make weapons despite the existance of epic weapons.
    That to me in a way is an even bigger slap in the face. If woodworkers let's say got a couple bucklers, and then 4 new totems, and then Weaponsmiths get all consumables, then I could at least rectify that in my head with "Oh, okay..guess the developers feel that anything beyond basic MC weapons aren't viable for crafting, since anyone 75th or up in level is probably planning on their epic quest anyway". But no, they do feel that woodworkers can make weapons and have at least some chance of a sale. Sure, none of the epics are 2 handers, but the ranger epic is a bow, and both the monk & bruiser epics are one handed weapons.
    So, IF any developers are reading this, I do ask...why no weapons for weaponsmiths? Why not let's say 3 consumables and 3 weapons? Or since as another poster pointed out, the other outfitters get a large number of recipes so they can do a full suit of a couple types of armor, why not 6 consumables and then 3 to 6 weapons?
    I am a weaponsmith. I want to make weapons that at least occasionally get sold. I understand that the developers feel that MC weapons must be wedged between Treasured and Legendary. Allright. But please, when giving us new recipes, make at least some of them weapons? For tier 8, Smoldering Materials are almost a more important "rare" then Incarnadine clusters and Hidebound Pelts now. At least the whetstones do occasionally sell if I'm patient, and I do occasionally get custom orders.
    Really..and not because I demanded such at all, I was more then willing each time to do the combine for free, but only due to the generosity of others tipping at random, I made more money the first month the Artisan epic was out with regards to my tradeskill, then via sales via my tradeskill. That was due to pure generoisty..I'd usually hit accept as soon as people had their materials in the consignment box, then see someone add money after they put their raws into the box.
    What does it say when I made the most coin as a weaponsmith via a service I was providing for free?
    To cover the topic of adding lower tier items like let's say Blood Ore weapons..why not? I'm 80th as a weaponsmith also. And I've done my artisan epic series. Why not have lower tier additions along with upper tier? To say such shouldn't be focused upon ignores both people who are new to crafting or new players in general, and may wish to be a weaponsmith, and also ignores people who have customers below tier 8. I keep supplies for tier 3 and below, and occasionally even for tier one and two, although I don't guarentee I have any common raws in stock below tier 3 at any one time. I don't look at level of the item being made or the player asking when someone asks for a weapon being made. To bring up blood ore specfically, as a weapon for just wearing about town...if they truly did make it look right, and not like a hunk of plastic dyed red, then it might be a neat showpiece to wear around town for a level 80. And since I have alts that are mostly crafters but I do adventure with occaisonally, a level 37 MC Blood Iron sword would be neat to have for them, stat wise..and if they did put any effort into it, for looks too.
    Or put it another way..let's revamp the WHOLE class. It needs a major revamp. A major reset if you will. Yes, revamp tier 8..but revamp the lower tiers also. Not everything revolves around the endgame levels. Just as a comment, I think WAY too many people forget that.
  10. ARCHIVED-Terron Guest

    Troubor wrote:
    I think the reason woodworkers got weapons and weaponsmiths only got consumables is that woodworkers already have consumables that provide a steady source of sales. Weaponsmiths didn't (don't) have such good consumables. So it was not unreasonable to think that woodworkers had more need of permanent items and weaponsmiths more need of consumables.
    It appears to be a well intentioned attempt to help weaponsmiths, not a slap in the face.
    I rather agree that weapons might have been better, but they would have been overshadowed by the epics.

    As you say, not everything is about the endgame levels.
    The current DFC recipes need overhauling since they are now overshadowed by mastercrafted armour. Better stats but lower mit than level 42 stuff was good before. I think it would be good to add some blood iron recipes for weaponsmiths, with DR between level 32 and 42 mastercrafted, but better stats and an alternative bonus in place of the imbue effect. Ones like a dagger with STR, INT and + spell damage; a spear with STR, WIS and + healing, a scimitar with INT, WIS and + healing would fit niches where I think they would sell well even with all the HQ weapons available around those levels.
    That would I think be a good starting step to providing weaponsmiths with more weapons that sell.

    Of course giving weaponsmiths thrown weapon ammo at all tiers seems the obvious thing to do first.
  11. ARCHIVED-Troubor Guest

    Terron@Splitpaw wrote:
    Should be obvious, but agreeing with the part I snipped.
    Anyway, with regards to the first paragraph I quoted, I guess I have to disagree, I still see it as a bit of a slap. If they wish to give us consumables, then give us the lower tier thrown ammo, like you state in the last sentence. Please understand that I don't want to pull the weapons that Woodworkers got with GU43, far from it. And as far as consumables go, I'm not unhappy with them. But I still feel we should have gotten weapons also, or maybe gotten three whetstones, 3 weapons. Yes, they might be overshadowed by the epics..but even not every level 80th has an epic. Anyway, there's plenty of armor to be had that can be quested and looted that equals or overshadows the RoK faction armor too. No, it's not under the heading of a major epic quest but I guess I don't see that as that strong of a reason for us to not get at least a couple weapons with the RoK faction recipes. And some people just don't like their epics, at least not in the fabled/group version. And finally, I know of plenty of people who level an alt a lot slower then a main, they might get some use out of a weapon that's level 75th or 77th to wield, even if they do plan on finally doing their epic on their alt too.

    Even if that is a niche category, I still want to be able to do such weapons just to say I CAN do them. As I said before, I'm a weaponsmith. Let me make weapons. Armorers are finding ways to apply chromatic essences to make better then normal MC armor. So are tailors. Woodworkers are managing to make better then normal for Mastercrafted wooden weapons. Why did weaponsmiths only get to play with the imbuing rocks?

    I guess I just still see it as a slap. Maybe they didn't intend it, maybe they did. I guess I'd like to think they didn't. accidental slap is still a slap.

    Domino, if you do read this thread..please give us more weapons.
  12. ARCHIVED-Domino Guest

    Troubor wrote:
    Dude, I'm the one who suggested people post to this thread, of course I'm going to read it! :D

    Bookmarking another thread (now locked) with related comments so I don't lose track of it later.
  13. ARCHIVED-Amana Guest

    ShallaBal wrote:
    No way leave that in the realm of the woodworkers. Wouldn't mind if you guys got your own "special" items you can make that are thrown, but don't take them away from Woodworkers. About the only thing we got are ammunition and totems.
  14. ARCHIVED-DMIstar Guest

    Did not know this post was being watched will reply here then.
  15. ARCHIVED-Saevan Guest

    Regardless of the request for more weapons, we were given new and better consumable items with the faction recipes. And we screwed it up.
    On Nektulos, myself and another WS were the first to make the items and they were selling well at 25g each. The price of smoldering material went up and down between 6 and 20g, so that price was reasonable for profit and for purchase.
    So what happens? The next WS undercuts us by 11s. And the next by 2g, and the next by another 3g, or so on. And suddenly, you might as well forget it. Within a day we went from reasonably profitable to not worth making, same as throwing weapons.
    I'm not saying prices should be fixed, and I know it's all about free enterprise, but why complain about nothing to sell and then kill the market the same day?
  16. ARCHIVED-Oakum Guest

    Saevan wrote:
    That is supply and demand though and not much can be done about it. After all, why would anyone want to make a box full of items just to have them sit there forever because they are not the first one on the broker list. Lowering price makes them first on the list. Once they get to the point where no one wants to go any lower and they are willing to either vender them or let them sit, that becomes the "going" price for a while.
    I think I have a box full of arrows on my woodworker that the profit per arrow is like 30 copper. That is as low as I will go but I dont craft regularly on my woodworker so I am willing to let them sit there forever. I sometime overprice chameleon totems when I make more then me and my wife need just so when we starting getting low, they will still be available while if someone really needs them they will buy them.
    The poison/potion market is so saturated I usually dont bother to make them unless someone ask me to specifically on Oakum. That is the way it goes.
  17. ARCHIVED-Orba Guest

    It would be nice to see more use being made of the different weapon models, at the moment a lot of the weapons tend to use the same models tier after tier. The addition of a few of the more unusual weapons from the game being added to the recipe books, stuff like whips. I know plenty of players for whom the weapon appearance is a major factor in what they use. You might also consider a review of the existing weapons to see which are popular and which are not, in the tradeskill revamp our two handed spear was changed into a two handed trident which I have found to be an extremely bad seller.
  18. ARCHIVED-troodon Guest

    You people are wasting your time. They'll never make weaponsmithing lucrative or even remotely interesting to play with. I've been one since launch and it's the same story every update, every tier, every expansion. It's a joke.
    You might get your requests for consistency across tiers answered. Big frackin' whoop.
  19. ARCHIVED-Troubor Guest

    DominoDev wrote:
    My apolgies then, I didn't know you had referred people to here. Thanks for reading.
    Now...having said that, any comments so far?
  20. ARCHIVED-Troubor Guest

    troodon wrote:
    Well, just standing there saying "it's a waste of time" isn't going to cause any change. So I don't know what you just accomplished.
    I understand that you're disgruntled. So am I..which is why I started this thread. We at least have her posting saying she is reading it, and referring people to here to post. I guess I'd like to at least give it one more try before I throw in the towel.
    Anyway, if it's a waste of time to post here, why did you post, even if just to complain?

    As for the price fixing comment...someone else pretty much posted how I'd reply, so I'll just say "yep, I agree" with regards to the reply. I'm not in favor of price fixing either.

    Well, let's not derail the thread. I'm seeing a lot of good ideas. Everything from consistency across the tiers, to weapons added to the RoK weapon lists, to throwing ammo below tier 8 to something like Blood Iron Ore also being able to be used by weaponsmiths, to many other ideas.
    Now that we know someone is listening, let's keep it up. We might get a few of these implimented.

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